Reactions to Being Barred or Backed Off
Poll
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| | 7 votes (58.33%) |
12 members have voted
If you catch a good shoe and are making your larger bets, leave at the end of the shoe. If you are betting 2 hands of $500 and then after the shuffle go back to one hand at $25, that could be tipping off your action. Book your win and don't burn yourself at that property. Come back another day and start over.
Use a players card. Contrary to popular belief, we spend more time watching uncarded players.
I could write a book on this. If you are interested in any more specific advice, ask here or PM me. I would be happy to help you out if you agree not to play at my property.
Quote: MintyThat's a kind offer of yours, and I may take you up on it. I've read Bill Zender's Casinology and found it helpful, though it's been awhile. Ian Anderson's Ultimate Gambit is a good idea as well, but it can be hard to knowingly deviate from those index plays. Definitely surprised by your bit about using a player's card; I would guess that it's more noticeable at higher levels not to be using them, but would a low level player e.g. someone with a minimum bet of $50 or less still draw attention that way?
Depends on the property. A $50 bet at the Wynn is nothing. Try it at the El Cortez. $50 there will have everyone in the place watching you.
If you are betting in the range of 90% of the people there, uncarded may be the way to go. If you are spreading 10-12 units as you must to gain an advantage, an uncarded player will be more quickly noticed and run down.
Zender and Anderson are both excellent sources. Did you read "Turning the Tables on Las Vegas" or the sequel "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" by Anderson? How about "Card Counting for the Casino Executive" by Zender?
Quote: FCBLComishFrom the inside, the best thing you can do to preserve your welcome at a casino is not to be too greedy. I have caught many players who take every correct deviation, even the ones on very negative counts. The EV cost of not taking those is minimal. Assume someone is always watching, even if you don't feel any heat. Many times I will be watching on video from the comfort of my office.
If you catch a good shoe and are making your larger bets, leave at the end of the shoe. If you are betting 2 hands of $500 and then after the shuffle go back to one hand at $25, that could be tipping off your action. Book your win and don't burn yourself at that property. Come back another day and start over.
Use a players card. Contrary to popular belief, we spend more time watching uncarded players.
I could write a book on this. If you are interested in any more specific advice, ask here or PM me. I would be happy to help you out if you agree not to play at my property.
How closely are you watching other table games for skilled players?
Quote: gamerfreakHow closely are you watching other table games for skilled players?
Answer is VERY. We know what to look for on the "novelty games" where correct play looks nothing like what all the "regular players" are doing.
If you go to a place that offers a better game for the player (Not the LV Strip) you will find that they are keeping an eye on AP so that they can continue to offer that good game for the non-AP guests.
If you are talking about games like Roulette, we are only looking for cheaters there. You can AP roulette all you like :)
Quote: FCBLComishDepends on the property. A $50 bet at the Wynn is nothing. Try it at the El Cortez. $50 there will have everyone in the place watching you.
If you are betting in the range of 90% of the people there, uncarded may be the way to go. If you are spreading 10-12 units as you must to gain an advantage, an uncarded player will be more quickly noticed and run down.
Zender and Anderson are both excellent sources. Did you read "Turning the Tables on Las Vegas" or the sequel "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" by Anderson? How about "Card Counting for the Casino Executive" by Zender?
I've read Burning the Tables in Las Vegas, though I don't think I've read the first one. Haven't read Zender's other book you've mentioned. I know in his writings he's mentioned that casinos will often "spend a dollar to save a penny" or something similar when it comes to game protection and counters are so far and few between that it's often not worth it.
As a player, and someone who did briefly work in a casino, I've only been able to confidently say I've seen two other counters besides myself in my 5+ years in casinos. In your work you likely see more, but do you feel that the countermeasures taken against counters are justified in most cases? Are there really enough people doing it?
Quote: Minty
As a player, and someone who did briefly work in a casino, I've only been able to confidently say I've seen two other counters besides myself in my 5+ years in casinos. In your work you likely see more, but do you feel that the countermeasures taken against counters are justified in most cases? Are there really enough people doing it?
When you offer a really good game, you are bound to have people try to take advantage of it. I would rather let 10 AP play than back off one regular person incorrectly. Having said that, we watch. At my last property (somewhere in Indian Country) I agree, there were only 1 or 2 people I ever considered a threat and had to back them off. This property however, probably due to location and game conditions has many more.
When I personally back someone off, I am sure. I do it very nicely, and 99% of the time, they know that I know and they depart quietly. I have never "taken anyone to the back room" nor have I disallowed them cashing out their chips.
I have so many stories of these types of situations, I really should write a book. There have been so many interesting ones. I took an AP to the coffee shop after backing him off and we spent an hour eating and talking shop. Was worthwhile for both of us.
Quote: FCBLComishWhen you offer a really good game, you are bound to have people try to take advantage of it. I would rather let 10 AP play than back off one regular person incorrectly. Having said that, we watch. At my last property (somewhere in Indian Country) I agree, there were only 1 or 2 people I ever considered a threat and had to back them off. This property however, probably due to location and game conditions has many more.
When I personally back someone off, I am sure. I do it very nicely, and 99% of the time, they know that I know and they depart quietly. I have never "taken anyone to the back room" nor have I disallowed them cashing out their chips.
I have so many stories of these types of situations, I really should write a book. There have been so many interesting ones. I took an AP to the coffee shop after backing him off and we spent an hour eating and talking shop. Was worthwhile for both of us.
Can you please tell every casino to try and backroom me? Thanks.
Quote: MintyHey everyone! I've been doing a bit of reflection lately on my experience playing and not being allowed to play (or at least in profitable conditions anyway) and have wondered how other people feel about being given the boot from casinos or blackjack. I tend to go through a bit of a cycle ranging from numbness to anger to determination as I decide to refine my play or try new locations. Thoughts about how you feel and how best to persevere are welcome.
Minty, play as aggressive as you want and just realize you will never go to prison for counting cards. Feel free to return after a trespass, ive done it already lol. They will just re trespass you again. Why didnt they just call the cops and detain me? Even if they illegally detain you and have the cops arrest you, sue each and every one of them in their private capacity under Title 18 Section 241 once the smoke clears. The trespassing violation will also just be thrown out in court each time once you seek discovery. The government cannot put you in prison because a legal criminal trespass never occurred in the first place. Wake up and smell the statutes and dont let fear mongering and bluffs control you in this sad society we live in.
Vegas and all these casinos in this country are relying on one of the biggest bluffs to keep their tables AP free. Sure they can back you off, but restricting you from entering the premises, good one. Maybe in China that would work.
Quote: ZenKinGCan you please tell every casino to try and backroom me? Thanks.
I've offered you to come to AZ. I'll show you how things really work when we ask you to leave..
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13I've offered you to come to AZ. I'll show you how things really work when we ask you to leave..
ZCore13
Not once have i said i do not leave upon request. My claims have always been restricting me from entering the premises in future visits, which is completely illegal. I also laugh at you and your casino because you think youre untouchable just because youre on an indian reservation,. You guys think you have complete sovereign immunity, but that only applies on the state level, you guys still must follow federal law, so no im not scared of you guys either. Good luck trespassing me and having me go to prison. Ill keep coming back and ill sue each and everyone one of your security guards in their private capacity under Title 18.
Quote: ZenKinGYoure also on indian land but dont think you have complete sovereign immunity, you guys still must follow federal law.
Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13
Patently False.
If the federal govt wants to intervene they will rip your tribe to shreds. Its not the indians who choose, it's the other way around, it's the fed who chooses not to intervene in those particular offenses. Marijuana etc are not something the fed really cares to regulate and leaves it up to the states. Once again, nice try to misconstrue information amd confuse everyone.
Quote: ZenKinGPatently False.
If the federal govt wants to intervene they will rip your tribe to shreds. Its not the indians who choose, it's the other way around, it's the fed who chooses not to intervene in those particular offenses. Marijuana etc are not something the fed really cares to regulate and leaves it up to the states. Once again, nice try to misconstrue information amd confuse everyone.
Wrong.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Wrong.
ZCore13
Drone
At its Core is who is King
Quote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
See? That wasn't so hard. Thanks. Much better than, "They choose to follow most federal law. They don't have to."
Quote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing? You sound like another brainwashed employee. The tribe has really gotten to your head.
D.R.O.N.E
DO NOT CALL OTHER MEMBERS 'DRONE'. Using it with dots like some sort of signature will not temper it's impact as a personal insult.Quote: ZenKinGQuote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing? You sound like another brainwashed employee. The tribe has really gotten to your head.
D.R.O.N.E
Quote: OnceDearDO NOT CALL OTHER MEMBERS 'DRONE'. Using it with dots like some sort of signature will not temper it's impact as a personal insult.Quote: ZenKinGQuote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing? You sound like another brainwashed employee. The tribe has really gotten to your head.
D.R.O.N.E
He's allowed to break the rules because you like his content?
ZCore13
Quote: ZenKinGQuote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing? You sound like another brainwashed employee. The tribe has really gotten to your head.
D.R.O.N.E
Wow. I guess you will just now learn that CongressThat's the Senate and House) is in the Legislative Branch. You just keep topping yourself.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Quote: ZenKinGQuote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing? You sound like another brainwashed employee. The tribe has really gotten to your head.
D.R.O.N.E
Wow. I guess you will just now learn that CongressThat's the Senate and House) is in the Legislative Branch. You just keep topping yourself.
ZCore13
I understand that. Once again you missed the point of my post. Go ahead and tell me what the legislative branch does and what's the end game regarding that for indians? Congress makes and passes the laws. Therefore that's all that matters to who controls who.
Try again. I can own you all night
Quote: ZenKinGQuote: Zcore13Quote: ZenKinGQuote: Zcore13Quote: RSQuote: Zcore13Not true is most cases. They choose to follow most Federal Law. They dont have to. They are their own Nation.
At the previous Tribe I worked for, they did not follow Federal sexual harrassment guidelines. At my current location, they can grow and sell marijuana if they choose and be safe from Federal issues.
ZCore13my emphasis
Uhhhhhhhhhh.........what????? Indians must still follow federal laws.
I mean, I guess you can argue they don't HAVE TO follow federal law, just as I don't have to follow federal law either, or anyone for that matter. But we are all subject to federal law.
To be more specific, the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government and the Judicial Branch have no authority over Indian Tribes. Only Congress has authority to deal with Tribal Entities.
A few things that Tribes benefit from:
You can't sue a Tribe in Federal Court.
The First Amendment does not hold up on Tribal Land.
Tribes have immunity to Federal Civil crimes.
There are many more. In general, Tribes are left to make their own rules/laws, but in general, they follow most Federal guidlines.
It's quite a tricky situation.
ZCore13
You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing? You sound like another brainwashed employee. The tribe has really gotten to your head.
D.R.O.N.E
Wow. I guess you will just now learn that CongressThat's the Senate and House) is in the Legislative Branch. You just keep topping yourself.
ZCore13
I understand that. Once again you missed the point of my post. Go ahead and tell me what the legislative branch does and what's the end game regarding that for indians? Congress makes and passes the laws. Therefore that's all that matters to who controls who.
Try again. I can own you all night
Lol. Let me know when you start. Here's your quote:
Quote:You mention the Executive branch and the judicial branch having no authority over indian tribes, but then you mention Congress as a whole having the authority. LOL. Do you realize you just made no sense and that's the same exact thing?
Remember it? How you said Congress is the exact same thing as the Executive Branch and/or the Judicial Branch. Because when I separated Congress from them I made no sense.
If tomorrow a Tribe decided they no longer want to follow the 2nd Ammendment, it would go to Congress. Congress would review and say, well they are a Sovereign Nation and if they don't want their people to have the 2nd Ammendment, they don't have to. And just like that it would be gone from the Tribes laws. Tribes decide what they want and don't want in most cases. They happen to want many of the things non Tribal Citizens want, but not all.
Anyway, if you want I can teach you more about U.S and Tribal Governments outside of here. Maybe when you come to Az.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13He's allowed to break the rules because you like his content?
I interpret the extent to which he breaks the rules and act accordingly. Same for everyone.
I'm not the only one who likes and engages with his content. Do i like his content? Yes. it amuses me. It seems to amuse you too.
Does that influence my tolerance of his infractions? Yes. Probably.
Do I like HIM and dislike others personally and let that bias my judgement? I assert not.
Note that it was me that suspended him last time for a whole month. The longest non-nuke I've ever issued. I sincerely don't want to suspend him again and he can easily prevent that.
At any time, another mod can over-rule me and that would not upset me at all.
Quote: OnceDearI interpret the extent to which he breaks the rules and act accordingly. Same for everyone.
I'm not the only one who likes and engages with his content. Do i like his content? Yes. it amuses me. It seems to amuse you too.
Does that influence my tolerance of his infractions? Yes. Probably.
Do I like HIM and dislike others personally and let that bias my judgement? I assert not.
Note that it was me that suspended him last time for a whole month. The longest non-nuke I've ever issued. I sincerely don't want to suspend him again and he can easily prevent that.
At any time, another mod can over-rule me and that would not upset me at all.
Quite a dilema... he personally does not amuse me, but his antics do. I've never asked a Mod to suspend anyone and he certainly doesn't need any help in that category. I do question a higher tolerance of anybody who you might be fond of, but I can't say I wouldn't be the same way if I was in your shoes, so it's probably more a question of you to question yourself. Lol.
ZCore13
I don't think we have a problem.Quote: Zcore13Quite a dilema... he personally does not amuse me, but his antics do. I've never asked a Mod to suspend anyone and he certainly doesn't need any help in that category. I do question a higher tolerance of anybody who you might be fond of, but I can't say I wouldn't be the same way if I was in your shoes, so it's probably more a question of you to question yourself. Lol.
ZCore13
I neither like nor dislike Zenking. I like to think that even if i did, it would not influence my judgement or actions.
I DO like his posts and it's those post which are tolerated* or not. But yes... i do ask myself and check my own thinking and I don't object when you and others remind me to.
*I suspect I'm more tolerant than some mods. Maybe by posting my warning, I can prevent the odd suspension. It doesn't always work out that way :o)
Quote: ZenKinGCan you please tell every casino to try and backroom me? Thanks.
This was a nice thread until you came along and ruined it with your worthless ranting.
Is there any chance that you were perhaps banned just because you were maybe being a hot head?
Quote: ZenKinGPatently False.
If the federal govt wants to intervene they will rip your tribe to shreds. Its not the indians who choose, it's the other way around, it's the fed who chooses not to intervene in those particular offenses. Marijuana etc are not something the fed really cares to regulate and leaves it up to the states. Once again, nice try to misconstrue information amd confuse everyone.
Actually ZEN, this is all whatever is negotiated in the Nation/State Compact. Lots of tribes will be in the marijuana and casino businesses very shortly.
My last tribe did not follow Federal FMLA rules. They had their own system. They also did not follow a few other federal laws including not allowing guide dogs in the restaurants.
This time I am sure you are incorrect.
Quote: KeyserZenKinG
Is there any chance that you were perhaps banned just because you were maybe being a hot head?
THIS is the burning question of 2019. Thank you, Keyser, for FINALLY having the cojones to ask it!!!1!111!1
Quote: ZenKinGMinty, play as aggressive as you want and just realize you will never go to prison for counting cards. Feel free to return after a trespass, ive done it already lol. They will just re trespass you again. Why didnt they just call the cops and detain me? Even if they illegally detain you and have the cops arrest you, sue each and every one of them in their private capacity under Title 18 Section 241 once the smoke clears. The trespassing violation will also just be thrown out in court each time once you seek discovery. The government cannot put you in prison because a legal criminal trespass never occurred in the first place. Wake up and smell the statutes and dont let fear mongering and bluffs control you in this sad society we live in.
Vegas and all these casinos in this country are relying on one of the biggest bluffs to keep their tables AP free. Sure they can back you off, but restricting you from entering the premises, good one. Maybe in China that would work.
So do you just walk right back in after being trespassed? How long do you wait?
If you really want this battle as you state, wouldn’t you just walk right back in, again and again until the police are called?
Quote: FCBLComishDepends on the property. A $50 bet at the Wynn is nothing. Try it at the El Cortez. $50 there will have everyone in the place watching you.
I actually saw this at the EL
The pit boss didn't just watch the bettor closely
She went through the discard pile to see what the count was.
I was counting also but a low roller spread so I was ignored
When I saw her go through the discard pile, I got up and left
I like playing at the EL and did not want any problems
Sitting at a El Cortez BJ table, a European guy stepped up and placed three bets of $75. Pit boss rushed over, pushed all three bets out of the betting circle, and said "We don't want your action." They argued for a bit. Didn't look like the El Cortez people knew who he was. They just panic about big action unless you are a known ploppy.Quote: FCBLComishTry it at the El Cortez. $50 there will have everyone in the place watching you.
I was flat-bet at El Cortez decades ago, but they've never reminded me of the flat-bet restriction.
Sometimes I just start with $20, and if the count is good, push all-in. If I lose, bring out another $20. But I also don't play very long (so the theoretical loss for the El Cortez is low).
When I was warned, I chatted with the manager about people grinding reds, and the manager said "but anyone can have a lucky run". They are pretty paranoid there, but also the casino doesn't make much compared to a big strip property.
