dogqck
dogqck
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
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RogerKint
July 10th, 2018 at 10:16:02 AM permalink
If the cheating is as described why call gaming? Exploit it,,,
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
Joined: May 8, 2015
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July 10th, 2018 at 10:46:43 AM permalink
anybody remember 𝑴𝑰𝑵𝑫𝑷𝑳𝑨𝒀

from wikipedia:

"MindPlay was a technology designed to monitor blackjack players' actions while playing in a casino, first released in 2003 and discontinued in 2007.

Because MindPlay tends to thwart their efforts to beat a blackjack game, card counters generally avoid casinos which use the system and its competitors, and often circulate news of such installations on various Internet sites. Some card counters have tried to make the general public aware of the use of these systems, in an effort to convince others not to patronize the games. Indeed, MindPlay has been somewhat slow to spread among American casinos, partly because of the cost (which must be weighed against that of card-counters) and partly because of negative reaction by players. On the other hand, there were many problems with the systems and some players were able to exploit them."

In 2007 Bally stopped supporting MindPlay. The product was plagued by a host of problems, from the cameras not staying calibrated, to the controller boards malfunctioning. These technical problems along with the need for constant software maintenance by Bally staff contributed to the phasing out of this system.


from the 2nd link dated 2005:

"MindPlay is new technology, owned by Alliance Gaming, a leading slot manufacturer. Each card and each chip on the table is marked. By marking both chips and cards, casinos using this device can determine not only a players average bet but also their skill level. By marking every card, the casino can also determine when the shoe (or deck) has turned in the players favor (when it is rich in aces and ten value cards). They can then use this information to reshuffle the cards, thus nullifying the temporary edge the player has."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindPlay
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g45963-i10-k179572-Blackjack_and_Mindplay_beware-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html
𝘱𝘢𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘵: 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘳 𝘭𝘰𝘶𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵............. ᴍᴀʀᴋ ᴛᴡᴀɪɴ
dogqck
dogqck
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
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July 10th, 2018 at 11:12:24 AM permalink
in 2006 agi became Bally, The casinos that bought into Mindplay lost, the company that sold it has now lost, and the casinos that picked off the old players from those casinos have won.

http://www.cboe.com/publish/TTStockSM/06-211.pdf
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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SOOPOO
July 10th, 2018 at 11:29:21 AM permalink
Same lame accusations, different day. 3 days ago I had a guy playing in high limit. $1,000 a hand, one or two hands. He claimed that the 6 deck shuffles are programmed to make you lose when they want to. Instead of breast mode, he called it "an algorythem".

He said it would set the cards up to kill the player during a shoe. So, when a shuffle was complete I told him why dont you fool the shuffle? You were only playing one hand before the shuffle. Now all the cards are in the shoe now. Spread to 2 or 3 hands. There's no way to adjust once they are in the shoe. Next show go to one hand, or maybe wait for additional players.

It's always the shuffle or the dealer or the other player messing the shoe up or something else ridiculous. The fact that he was down $10,000, bought in for another $1,000 and built it to $15,000, but didn't leave has nothing to do with it. It's the algorythems fault.

Shufflers are not gaffed. They can not be programmed to make people lose more often the the odds and their bad play, there is no best mode, a other player at the table standing on hard 12 with a dealer face card doesn't throw the whole shoe off. But it sure is funny listening to this stuff every night.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
dogqck
dogqck
Joined: Jun 22, 2018
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July 10th, 2018 at 11:37:17 AM permalink
OP "I'm really hoping ZK does not respond to this post because I regard his claims of cheating as having zero credibility."

Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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July 10th, 2018 at 12:42:52 PM permalink
Quote: dogqck

OP "I'm really hoping ZK does not respond to this post because I regard his claims of cheating as having zero credibility."

Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?

More importantly, I'm trying to figure out who you are/were.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gordonm888
gordonm888
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July 10th, 2018 at 3:54:53 PM permalink
The technology for ordering a deal from a shuffler certainly exists. There have been multiple patents on this, and many modern shufflers scan and ID all the cards (using microchips in the cards or optical recognition technology) and can deal them in any order for which they are programmed to. The safeguards against crooked shuffler machines are with the certification labs that verify the shuffler machines and their internal programming before they are certified for use.

I think what the OP is claiming is that there are multiple clumps of multiple 10s in a shoe. When you are in a clump of Tens, no one wins because it is generally TT vs TT. In between the clumps, it is significantly negative EV because of the absence of Tens. And because there are multiple clumps, it does not greatly matter where the cut card is placed. So that might add 2-3% to the house edge. If done correctly, there would probably be no way for APs to take advantage of it.

Has anyone ever attempted to model the EV from such a pattern?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
darkoz
darkoz
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July 10th, 2018 at 4:25:03 PM permalink
It would also be egregious if aces were kept away from tens
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 10th, 2018 at 4:28:15 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

The technology for ordering a deal from a shuffler certainly exists. There have been multiple patents on this, and many modern shufflers scan and ID all the cards (using microchips in the cards or optical recognition technology) and can deal them in any order for which they are programmed to. The safeguards against crooked shuffler machines are with the certification labs that verify the shuffler machines and their internal programming before they are certified for use.

I think what the OP is claiming is that there are multiple clumps of multiple 10s in a shoe. When you are in a clump of Tens, no one wins because it is generally TT vs TT. In between the clumps, it is significantly negative EV because of the absence of Tens. And because there are multiple clumps, it does not greatly matter where the cut card is placed. So that might add 2-3% to the house edge. If done correctly, there would probably be no way for APs to take advantage of it.

Has anyone ever attempted to model the EV from such a pattern?



Splitting tens?

If the cards are indeed clumped splitting and resplitting tens would grab all the clumped cards - unless yhe dealer takes both cards up front

But if he takes his second card after dealing everyone else then split and resplit until tens fail to appear

Just a thought

EDIT: I know i have seen this somewhere but I imagine in most places the dealer takes both cards upfront

Definitely insurance is offered its upfront
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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Jmarch79
July 10th, 2018 at 4:34:20 PM permalink
I wish they would clump the tens in Baccarat

Tie baby Tie
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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