gambling within your means?
my main question if you have an edge is it wrong to keep going after losing some would say that's ridiculous amount of money?
i will make it a little more clear, obviously if you get kicked out of your apartment because you gambled away the rent money or lose your house clearly thats a gambling problem but how about going to eating rice or pasta every night like third world countries a few months cause of losing streaks, sleeping in your car cause a hotel or in eats in to your EV and sacrifice other enjoyments you like in this world? is that enough to end your Advantage play in terms of gambling?
thoughts , opinions and experiences would be grateful
Quote: thegamblerxmany blackjack experts recommend a card counting career with a bankroll of no less than 10k but where does one draw the line from problematic card counter to gambling with an edge and having fun + making a little extra on the side? there is no text book that says you have to lose X amount to stop gambling? if 10k is all you have in your bank account would it be wise to take all your money to the tables? and if you happen to lose all does one try again and again?
my main question if you have an edge is it wrong to keep going after losing some would say that's ridiculous amount of money?
i will make it a little more clear, obviously if you get kicked out of your apartment because you gambled away the rent money or lose your house clearly thats a gambling problem but how about going to eating rice or pasta every night like third world countries a few months cause of losing streaks, sleeping in your car cause a hotel or in eats in to your EV and sacrifice other enjoyments you like in this world? is that enough to end your Advantage play in terms of gambling?
thoughts , opinions and experiences would be grateful
Too many thoughts. I won't comment on a career in card counting because there are members and lurkers here who are far more knowledgeable than I. I can speak about gambling addiction, however.
One of the clear harbingers of a gambling addiction is ignoring what you know is wrong. Those are things like harboring beliefs that your odds will change, that you are blessed or cursed by outside forces, or that the solution is getting more money and trying to win it back. It's also substantiated through real events, like extending your sessions when you are tired, borrowing money, pawning, resorting to fraud/embezzlement/crime, becoming anti-social, and not taking care of yourself. The fact is that if you are truly playing with an advantage and track what you are doing, you will bankroll enough money to support a deviation of 4 or even 5 standard deviations below your expected win.
And just keep playing your game under your terms to make the money that you should. Eventually as you keep playing even 3 or 4 deviations below expected still means a net win with enough play.
i guess it all really comes down to your entertainment and if you are successful early in your blackjack career for a example Zenking won 60grand but lost 20grand due to variance , now should he call the hot line number cause he lost "20 grand" but up over all 40 grand? suppose the gambling gods twisted his fate lost 20 grand early in and he quit his career and never saw that "40 grand"? when is enough is enough mentally and financially???
Your bankroll needs to be large enough to not exhaust from variance before the edge you have comes to be.
I'm not a balckjack expert by any stretch, but the bets you make counting cards is big, and the edge over the house is small. As a result, you need a big bankroll to weather the variance storm.
I have no idea who calls the hotline for trouble gambling. Im pretty sure I have a gambling problem, but I'm ok with that.
Hope this helps.
i understand what you said about """bankroll, they are talking about a designated amount of money dedicated to gambling... Not the sum total of every nickel you have to your name.""" but in reality is your life blood choosing and deciding when to put the breaks on gambling is solely up to you
I never won 60k and lost 20k. I won +41,700 after 831.5 hours and got to vegas and dropped -12k for the first 50 hours or so and was in the red 95% of the time I was here only to dig out of it and am now up +6.200 in vegas and -1600 in california for a net gain for the trip of +4600 for total of 253 hours and career profit of +46,300 after 1084.5 hours. Results rounded to the nearest hundredth.
How's that for data?
Sadly most people that read card counting books are going to need the gambling hotline because they don't realize how hard this game really is. I talk a lot of crap about how good I am from time to time, but it's all fun and games. This game is a serious grind and my results after 1100 hours or so really isn't all that impressive. Then again I also had an average bet of about 175 so then again it somewhat is, but in the grand scheme of things there are many who have made way more than me(at least supposedly).
The point is if you have 10k, go get a job and work that up to 30k at the least before taking this up. The swings are ridiculous and you're better off making 'guaranteed' money from a job than red chipping your way to 30k.
who exactly does that refer to ??
The point is if you have 10k, go get a job and work that up to 30k at the least before taking this up. The swings are ridiculous and you're better off making 'guaranteed' money from a job than red chipping your way to 30k.
are you talking about someone who works 2 jobs just to pay the rent? are you talking about the bankers/lawyers/docters who lost there home/family to gambling?
i recall seeing a video on youtube where a ex British ex soldier/officer who lost everything he had and eventually saw the error in his ways and rebuild
everyone on this forum knows a red chipper makes double if not more than a mcdonald worker, the perfect example of that would be Kewljason look at his background and story so its confusing and contradicting for you to say work a job when you personally have won all that money and others in the past done so as welll
Quote: thegamblerxWho is Sidthesquid?
who exactly does that refer to ??
The point is if you have 10k, go get a job and work that up to 30k at the least before taking this up. The swings are ridiculous and you're better off making 'guaranteed' money from a job than red chipping your way to 30k.
are you talking about someone who works 2 jobs just to pay the rent? are you talking about the bankers/lawyers/docters who lost there home/family to gambling?
i recall seeing a video on youtube where a ex British ex soldier/officer who lost everything he had and eventually saw the error in his ways and rebuild
everyone on this forum knows a red chipper makes double if not more than a mcdonald worker, the perfect example of that would be Kewljason look at his background and story so its confusing and contradicting for you to say work a job when you personally have won all that money and others in the past done so as welll
Problem is you don't understand the difference between CE and EV, which is a major problem with newcomers.
Quote: prozemaZK... Would having a job and red chipping in your spare time be a reasonable alternative to not playing at all while building a bankroll? I'd think the value of the practice would be helpful and the risk with nickels would be small.
Yes. I have talked about this before on another forum. You should be working a job or two jobs if you have to, while simultaneously red chipping when you have time to get a feel of the casino experience and maybe try to win some, BUT you should only be playing after you bought all the software and have a perfect game by practicing on Casino Verite, which is the exact simulation to that of a casino. After you are proficient, go to the casino to get in some 'live play' because no computer software can imitate the real thing.
The scenarios are as follows:
If you have expenses and blackjack is your sole money maker, I wouldn't start with less than 30k.
If you are living at home or are working a job simultaneously and have NO expenses, you can start with 10k, but only after you're completely proficient.
If you have no job and only have 10k, i would advise not to play regardless of how good you are.
Quote: thegamblerxi don't think i have a problem understanding CE or EV Kewljason started low as legend has it and worked his way up the blackjack ladder and yet you tell me or anyone else to get a job? was it pure luck? conditions now are better than ever before with s17/Late surrender offered, was his skill ? good act with longevity? his bankroll played a small portion to his success he admit he started with between 4k-5k maybe it was his fate and right timing for him? getting a little off topic but fact remains i wonder if he busted his 5k roll would he have kept going? he said he had a nasty 3 years of grinding it up but it paid off
sidthequid, the more you post, the more you reveal about yourself LOL. Stop calling out other forum members and trolling with the same rhetoric on every forum. The game can be beaten, but you have to be ridiculously disciplined, have all your numbers in order, being bankroll properly, and being prepared for the grind of your life.
Quote: thegamblerxmany blackjack experts recommend a card counting career with a bankroll of no less than 10k but where does one draw the line from problematic card counter to gambling with an edge and having fun + making a little extra on the side? there is no text book that says you have to lose X amount to stop gambling? if 10k is all you have in your bank account would it be wise to take all your money to the tables? and if you happen to lose all does one try again and again?
Card counting is almost dead as a form of advantage play. However, if you have your heart set on it, I would start with no less than $100,000. It is a profession that requires a lot of money to make a little money. If you go bust, then you have to go back to a real job.
i recall you have an issue with Mr Norm what exactly did he do to you for you to call him out? anyway thanks for your info again every little bit helps
i suppose if Kewljason took your advice when he started out he would need to wait omgosh maybe 5 years if hes paying living expenses maybe half that if he works 2 jobs so he would still be in the boat he is now just delayed cause you recommend 30kroll he went in with 1/6th of that but to each his own as i feel gambling is a form of entertainment but you are telling me the game can be beaten and that hot line number belongs in the garbage
Quote: thegamblerxthere is no text book that says you have to lose X amount to stop gambling?
There is a wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterion
multiplying the formula by 0.5 is common to avoid the extreme downswings that can happen when being maximally aggressive. Other than that, the only thing left to do is repeat until rich
Quote: thegamblerxWoW if only the card counters 10 years ago had that wikipage maybe that would have been successful...
Having gone 10 years without finding success means you need quite a bit more help than that. The rest of us are successful with or without it
and if i lose 100 of my max bets do i pull out another 100 max bets? what a beautiful thing for the casinos
this will give me something to think about
Quote: thegamblerxso thats it? the WIzard says i need 100k, Mr Zenking over there says i need 30k, but your wiki page says i need a 100 max bets being each bet containing a 1% edge?
and if i lose 100 of my max bets do i pull out another 100 max bets? what a beautiful thing for the casinos
this will give me something to think about
It 100% depends on your lifestyle and how much money you need to live comfortably.
Read Rome’s articles on this site, specifically the part about Kelly Betting.
That will tell you how much bankroll you need such that you will not hit $0. Beyond that you should have at least 6 months of expenses.
Quote: thegamblerxif the failed counters from the decade past knew about this magical formula maybe they would have been successful in counting
If they knew about it and applied it correctly they would have been successful. Most likely they did know about it, but like you, they lacked the ability to apply it correctly.
Quote: PokerGrinderThis whole thread seems like a giant mocking troll of a thread. The new guy seems to be out to make a point of some kind.
The new guy is a sock puppet of sid the squid. I'm going to leave it up to the Wizard whether to delete the entire thread, but IMO there were enough responses worth reading, I'm inclined to leave it up there for now.
Thread closed. Gambler socks X2 nuked.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe new guy is a sock puppet of sid the squid. I'm going to leave it up to the Wizard whether to delete the entire thread, but IMO there were enough responses worth reading, I'm inclined to leave it up there for now.
Good work, deputy. There were some good responses in there to the original question, which I hate to see wasted, so I'll leave the posts up, but the thread remains closed.
