thegamblerx
thegamblerx
Joined: Mar 31, 2018
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March 31st, 2018 at 5:43:47 PM permalink
many blackjack experts recommend a card counting career with a bankroll of no less than 10k but where does one draw the line from problematic card counter to gambling with an edge and having fun + making a little extra on the side? there is no text book that says you have to lose X amount to stop gambling? if 10k is all you have in your bank account would it be wise to take all your money to the tables? and if you happen to lose all does one try again and again?

my main question if you have an edge is it wrong to keep going after losing some would say that's ridiculous amount of money?

i will make it a little more clear, obviously if you get kicked out of your apartment because you gambled away the rent money or lose your house clearly thats a gambling problem but how about going to eating rice or pasta every night like third world countries a few months cause of losing streaks, sleeping in your car cause a hotel or in eats in to your EV and sacrifice other enjoyments you like in this world? is that enough to end your Advantage play in terms of gambling?


thoughts , opinions and experiences would be grateful
Last edited by: thegamblerx on Mar 31, 2018
boymimbo
boymimbo
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March 31st, 2018 at 6:29:59 PM permalink
Quote: thegamblerx

many blackjack experts recommend a card counting career with a bankroll of no less than 10k but where does one draw the line from problematic card counter to gambling with an edge and having fun + making a little extra on the side? there is no text book that says you have to lose X amount to stop gambling? if 10k is all you have in your bank account would it be wise to take all your money to the tables? and if you happen to lose all does one try again and again?

my main question if you have an edge is it wrong to keep going after losing some would say that's ridiculous amount of money?

i will make it a little more clear, obviously if you get kicked out of your apartment because you gambled away the rent money or lose your house clearly thats a gambling problem but how about going to eating rice or pasta every night like third world countries a few months cause of losing streaks, sleeping in your car cause a hotel or in eats in to your EV and sacrifice other enjoyments you like in this world? is that enough to end your Advantage play in terms of gambling?


thoughts , opinions and experiences would be grateful



Too many thoughts. I won't comment on a career in card counting because there are members and lurkers here who are far more knowledgeable than I. I can speak about gambling addiction, however.

One of the clear harbingers of a gambling addiction is ignoring what you know is wrong. Those are things like harboring beliefs that your odds will change, that you are blessed or cursed by outside forces, or that the solution is getting more money and trying to win it back. It's also substantiated through real events, like extending your sessions when you are tired, borrowing money, pawning, resorting to fraud/embezzlement/crime, becoming anti-social, and not taking care of yourself. The fact is that if you are truly playing with an advantage and track what you are doing, you will bankroll enough money to support a deviation of 4 or even 5 standard deviations below your expected win.

And just keep playing your game under your terms to make the money that you should. Eventually as you keep playing even 3 or 4 deviations below expected still means a net win with enough play.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
thegamblerx
thegamblerx
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March 31st, 2018 at 6:32:30 PM permalink
no one wants to weigh in? any experience gambler knows losing is a HUGE part of gambling, even Qfit and blackjack books put warning hot line numbers on their products, but i personally dont think the gaming houses need hot line numbers to ploppys or AP"s because winning would not be considered a problem for them.
i guess it all really comes down to your entertainment and if you are successful early in your blackjack career for a example Zenking won 60grand but lost 20grand due to variance , now should he call the hot line number cause he lost "20 grand" but up over all 40 grand? suppose the gambling gods twisted his fate lost 20 grand early in and he quit his career and never saw that "40 grand"? when is enough is enough mentally and financially???
prozema
prozema
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March 31st, 2018 at 7:10:40 PM permalink
Usually when someone is speaking about a bankroll, they are talking about a designated amount of money dedicated to gambling... Not the sum total of every nickel you have to your name.

Your bankroll needs to be large enough to not exhaust from variance before the edge you have comes to be.

I'm not a balckjack expert by any stretch, but the bets you make counting cards is big, and the edge over the house is small. As a result, you need a big bankroll to weather the variance storm.

I have no idea who calls the hotline for trouble gambling. Im pretty sure I have a gambling problem, but I'm ok with that.

Hope this helps.
thegamblerx
thegamblerx
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March 31st, 2018 at 7:21:20 PM permalink
every little bit helps, if your on this forum, that means were pretty much the same, read alot of lecture on gambling and watched alot of videos on gambling but it always you back to the root of gambling which is "Bankroll" bankroll is associated with the income you produce via work, 2 dollars to you might mean 300$ to someone else and 300$ to someone else may mean 2$ to them, someone who works 2 low level jobs just to pay the rent.

i understand what you said about """bankroll, they are talking about a designated amount of money dedicated to gambling... Not the sum total of every nickel you have to your name.""" but in reality is your life blood choosing and deciding when to put the breaks on gambling is solely up to you
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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March 31st, 2018 at 7:44:59 PM permalink
what's up sidthesquid.

I never won 60k and lost 20k. I won +41,700 after 831.5 hours and got to vegas and dropped -12k for the first 50 hours or so and was in the red 95% of the time I was here only to dig out of it and am now up +6.200 in vegas and -1600 in california for a net gain for the trip of +4600 for total of 253 hours and career profit of +46,300 after 1084.5 hours. Results rounded to the nearest hundredth.

How's that for data?

Sadly most people that read card counting books are going to need the gambling hotline because they don't realize how hard this game really is. I talk a lot of crap about how good I am from time to time, but it's all fun and games. This game is a serious grind and my results after 1100 hours or so really isn't all that impressive. Then again I also had an average bet of about 175 so then again it somewhat is, but in the grand scheme of things there are many who have made way more than me(at least supposedly).

The point is if you have 10k, go get a job and work that up to 30k at the least before taking this up. The swings are ridiculous and you're better off making 'guaranteed' money from a job than red chipping your way to 30k.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
prozema
prozema
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Thanks for this post from:
ZenKinG
March 31st, 2018 at 7:59:24 PM permalink
ZK... Would having a job and red chipping in your spare time be a reasonable alternative to not playing at all while building a bankroll? I'd think the value of the practice would be helpful and the risk with nickels would be small.
thegamblerx
thegamblerx
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March 31st, 2018 at 8:00:49 PM permalink
Who is Sidthesquid?

who exactly does that refer to ??

The point is if you have 10k, go get a job and work that up to 30k at the least before taking this up. The swings are ridiculous and you're better off making 'guaranteed' money from a job than red chipping your way to 30k.

are you talking about someone who works 2 jobs just to pay the rent? are you talking about the bankers/lawyers/docters who lost there home/family to gambling?
i recall seeing a video on youtube where a ex British ex soldier/officer who lost everything he had and eventually saw the error in his ways and rebuild

everyone on this forum knows a red chipper makes double if not more than a mcdonald worker, the perfect example of that would be Kewljason look at his background and story so its confusing and contradicting for you to say work a job when you personally have won all that money and others in the past done so as welll
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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March 31st, 2018 at 8:03:46 PM permalink
Quote: thegamblerx

Who is Sidthesquid?

who exactly does that refer to ??

The point is if you have 10k, go get a job and work that up to 30k at the least before taking this up. The swings are ridiculous and you're better off making 'guaranteed' money from a job than red chipping your way to 30k.

are you talking about someone who works 2 jobs just to pay the rent? are you talking about the bankers/lawyers/docters who lost there home/family to gambling?
i recall seeing a video on youtube where a ex British ex soldier/officer who lost everything he had and eventually saw the error in his ways and rebuild

everyone on this forum knows a red chipper makes double if not more than a mcdonald worker, the perfect example of that would be Kewljason look at his background and story so its confusing and contradicting for you to say work a job when you personally have won all that money and others in the past done so as welll



Problem is you don't understand the difference between CE and EV, which is a major problem with newcomers.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
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Thanks for this post from:
prozema
March 31st, 2018 at 8:05:45 PM permalink
Quote: prozema

ZK... Would having a job and red chipping in your spare time be a reasonable alternative to not playing at all while building a bankroll? I'd think the value of the practice would be helpful and the risk with nickels would be small.



Yes. I have talked about this before on another forum. You should be working a job or two jobs if you have to, while simultaneously red chipping when you have time to get a feel of the casino experience and maybe try to win some, BUT you should only be playing after you bought all the software and have a perfect game by practicing on Casino Verite, which is the exact simulation to that of a casino. After you are proficient, go to the casino to get in some 'live play' because no computer software can imitate the real thing.

The scenarios are as follows:

If you have expenses and blackjack is your sole money maker, I wouldn't start with less than 30k.

If you are living at home or are working a job simultaneously and have NO expenses, you can start with 10k, but only after you're completely proficient.

If you have no job and only have 10k, i would advise not to play regardless of how good you are.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.

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