ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:19:35 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I am surprised this is the first time ZK has been early-shuffled on, if that is the case. Somehow I sense there is a story behind the story.



Its the first time in Nevada, not overall. In PA i was shuffled up on at SugarHohse multiple times. I called them out on it and said they cant do that and they told me its the only thing theyre 'allowed' to do, which is just more hogwash to a players face.

Regarding the games getting worse if the case is won, Nevada would never go to CSMs. Casinos have tried offering CSMs in the past and the average blackjack players stopped playing so they went back to shoe games. Blackjack is going no where, theres simply too much revenue lost to the average player than to counters and as brain dead as casinos are, even they realize this. After my head has cleared a bit, i do have to find out how much this will all cost to fight it. Going in without a lawyer they will just try to railroad me so i might need Bob as a formality.

Also this isnt just about preferential shuffling. Stratosphere was caught in the act violating their own policy about not burning a card and having to shuffle up the shoe. So once they review the tape of the past 10,000 hours of blackjack tape they will see many times when the pit boss was at the the table with the new dealer not burning a new card and NOT shuffling up on everyone.

Why do you think this new dealer didnt burn a card when she got to the table? Because theres no such policy in place. Why did the pit boss have to whisper in her ear as soon as she dealt the first round if it is policy to shuffle up on someone. Shouldnt the dealer have known that she made a mistake and called over the pit boss that she didnt burn a card and that she should also shuffle? Because theres no policy in place where they have to burn a card let alone shuffle up on you if they forget to burn a card. Because if there was there wouldnt need to be any whispering in the dealers ear. That should be funny to the jury and judge when they see a whisper to a dealers ear mide of the roune. Yeah, no shenanigans going on at all, right?

All these facts will prove that the casinos preferentially shuffled on me. Once that is proven in discovery, stratosphere now has violated the NRS cheating statute as I mentioned before.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:31:13 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

I feel this deserves it's own post, sorry for the double up

ZK... let's say you're right, gaming says this isn't fair, and the LAWS get changed/enforced so they can NEVER shuffle to change any kind of odds. Let's say all that happens. Okay, now every single casino in town switches to Continuous Shufflers, which is completely in their right to do. Have fun with your counting career? Have fun ruining ANYONE ELSE'S counting career because you're making a stink over things we've all known for decades. As the Wiz said, we're not just pushing it aside. It's part of the cat and mouse game.

They're a business. They're not FORCED to let you win. They have the right to change their games, not offer them, and ban you from their establishment. This is why we're forced to play the cat and mouse game, trying to cover that we're counters, not publicly outing ourselves, and most importantly of all not ruining opportunities for ourselves and more importantly other AP's/counters.

If I was hole carding a game and got cheated out of a hand, I wouldn't say s**t. The $x that I lost there is nothing compared to the $500-$1500 per hour I'm pulling from them, so F it. I also wouldn't burn the play down by exposing it to them to not only burn my own play, where I could potentially come back for months or years, but then to not burn the play for other AP's... if every AP played "burn it down" strategy, there'd be nothing left for any of us. This is a big part of AP'ing... AP'ing responsibly, I guess I'd call it. Very upsetting and disappointing to see someone call themselves a counter/AP and actively try to ruin the opportunities for all.

Because of that I would NEVER want to tell you about ANY plays, anywhere, EVER, because I know if you feel you've been wronged you'll blow the play out of the water throwing a tantrum... thus costing me thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.



Yeah because playing solo is the equivalent of me being on a team and outing a play. I would never sacrifice my network of people and burn out a play because i got cheated or somehow screwed when they are the ones to tell me about something n the first place. What benefit would I get by doing that other than losing a network of players. I would consult with the team first what they think about it and go from there.

Im also not even outing anything anyway, just challenging a casino practice that if won 'wouldnt' even destroy blackjack games anyway. So what you accused me of is not an apples to apples argument. You might think it is, but its not. Its not like i just found a 50% advantage play and took it to the forums and told everyone. This is a preferential shuffling cheating practice that has been going on for decades and never challenged in court because everyone just pushes it aside and feels its not 'worth it'.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:39:12 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Given that there is no law in place concerning when a casino can shuffle a deck or burn/not burn a card, they aren't cheating. Of course when a deck reverts to a new shoe the cards in the deck the odds are changed. However, it is very unlikely that a casino will be found guilty of cheating when they are doing counting counter-measures.

Likely other casinos in the MGM family and their lawyers will cite many examples where they take this measure against suspected counters. It's a widespread practice.

And yes, of course, they can prevent you from playing blackjack for any reason not amounting to discrimination based on creed/sex/sexuality etc.



No exact law on the books, but what they do in the process of counter measuring indeed violates the cheating statute in NRS 465.015

NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:

“Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;

(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;

(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or

(d) The value of a wagering credit

All that needs to be proven is that they purposely shuffled away the high proportion of high cards to low cards because they didnt have the advantage. That would be clearly cheating by violating subsection (a) and (b). This can easily be proven because of the 'whispering' in the dealers ear during the first round that the new dealer showed up and the fact they dont do any of this, whether its burning a card, whispering, or shuffling up a shoe simply because a card wasnt burned.

Go look at the past 100+ hours at stratosphere and see that no dealers burn a card and the dealer is never caught 'whispering' in the dealers ear. And when you spot a card not being burned, notice that the pit boss never told the dealer to shuffle up on everyone at the table either. But as soon as i go from $10 to 2x100, the dealer whispers in their ear and then tells me they have to shuffle because they didnt burn a card. Yeah makes perfect sense
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
MrBo
MrBo
Joined: Dec 30, 2017
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:47:01 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Also this isnt just about preferential shuffling. Stratosphere was caught in the act violating their own policy about not burning a card and having to shuffle up the shoe.



You have no say in casino policy. Nor does gaming. Nor would any legal challenge succeed. What if it is stratosphere's 'policy' to open a certain table at noon. But one day for whatever reason, maybe employee shortage, they don't open that table until 2pm. You going to call gaming or file a lawsuit?

You are grasping at straws, looking for some sort of challenge, where there is nothing.
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:50:00 PM permalink
Quote: MrBo

You have no say in casino policy. Nor does gaming. Nor would any legal challenge succeed. What if it is stratosphere's 'policy' to open a certain table at noon. But one day for whatever reason, maybe employee shortage, they don't open that table until 2pm. You going to call gaming or file a lawsuit?

You are grasping at straws, looking for some sort of challenge, where there is nothing.



What are you even talking about. This is about the policy of burning cards. Thats how i know for a fact there is no policy in place that they must shuffle up on you if the dealer doesnt burn a card. I played there many times for the past 2 weeks and domt recall ever seeing the new dealer burn a card.

Go look at the past 1000 hours of blackjack tape at stratosphere and see the inconsistencies in their policy. You will see a pit boss present and a dealer not burning a card and the pit boss not whispering in their ear or telling them to shuffle up on everyone. But as soon as i go from 1x10 to 2x100 and start winning every round, the whispering begins and the excuses of not burning a card and having to shuffle begins. Interesting. Thats all the proof i need.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:52:30 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

No exact law on the books, but what they do in the process of counter measuring indeed violates the cheating statute in NRS 465.015

NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:

“Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;

(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;

(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or

(d) The value of a wagering credit

All that needs to be proven is that they purposely shuffled away the high proportion of high cards to low cards because they didnt have the advantage. That would be clearly cheating by violating subsection (a) and (b). This can easily be proven because of the 'whispering' in the dealers ear during the first round that the new dealer showed up and the fact they dont do any of this, whether its burning a card, whispering, or shuffling up a shoe simply because a card wasnt burned.

Go look at the past 100+ hours at stratosphere and see that no dealers burn a card and the dealer is never caught 'whispering' in the dealers ear. And when you spot a card not being burned, notice that the pit boss never told the dealer to shuffle up on everyone at the table either. But as soon as i go from $10 to 2x100, the dealer whispers in their ear and then tells me they have to shuffle because they didnt burn a card. Yeah makes perfect sense


Then by these criteria, just dealing a second round is cheating because once you deal the first, the odds, amount and frequency change. As much as I'd like to see you win, I sincerely don't think you have a leg to stand on.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
ZenKinG
ZenKinG
Joined: May 3, 2016
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March 26th, 2018 at 8:54:37 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Then by these criteria, just dealing a second round is cheating because once you deal the first, the odds, amount and frequency change. As much as I'd like to see you win, I sincerely don't think you have a leg to stand on.



How is dealing a second round in blackjack the equivalent of deciding to shuffle up the whole shoe when the pack is rich in 9s, 10s, and aces

All the proof i need is the past 1000 hours of blackjack tape to see the inconsistencies in how they treat every other patron at the table. Youll see that they never shuffle the shoe on anyone just because dealer didnt burn a card. This proves they preferentially shuffled up on me and violated the NRS cheating statute
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
MrBo
MrBo
Joined: Dec 30, 2017
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Thanks for this post from:
HugoSlavia
March 26th, 2018 at 9:00:50 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

What are you even talking about. This id about the policy of burning cards. Thats how i know for a fact there is no policy in place that they must shuffle up on you if dealer doesnt burn a card. Go look at the past 1000 hours of blackjack tape. You will see a pit boss present and a dealer not burning a card and the pit boss not whispering in their ear or telling them to shuffle up on everyone. But as soon as i go from 1x10 to 2x100 and start winning every round, the whispering begins and the excuses of not burning a card and having to shuffle begins. Interesting. Thats all the proof i need.



If it is a 'policy' then they can choose to do it or not do it at will. There is no violation of anything, nor do you have a say.

I have read a lot of this thread, but I didn't go all the way back to the beginning, so let me ask you a question. Why did you move west to Las Vegas? Was it to pursue card counting and advantage play opportunities or was it make noise, filing complains and law suits that you can't and won't win and if you somehow did win, would receive no damages? Just like Kenny Uston received no damages.

You need to figure out what your objective really is. If it is pursuing card counting and advantage play, then pursue it. You are in their house. On someone else's home court. They make the rules. The object of advantage play, of which card counting is a part of is to go to their house, play by their rules and win. You don't get to change the rules.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 26th, 2018 at 9:03:37 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Even during the pendency of that appeal they can't bar you and it would be real bad publicity if they even tried.

Wrong!! They can and do!! At least when it comes to AP'S, even when the AP has a
LEGITIMATE complaint. Is it legal for them to do that? I don't know.

One time, I called NGC because the casino didn't want to pay me some promo money. After explaining the situation and at the time of a dispute (that we easily won, since it was obvious they should have paid) NGC actully told me to hang around because the casino security wanted to officially trespass me.

I said, "Are you requiring me to stay"

He said, ".no",

I said, "why would I hang around and wait here for them to come 86 me?" I think he mumbled somthing like smart ass under his breath.

He said, "they will just 86 you when you come to get your money"

I said, "that's fine I won't be back to pick it up"

He then gave me the nod to take off.

I would be willing to bet, if they caught me in the place, they would claim I had been officially trespassed and could have me arrested.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MrBo
MrBo
Joined: Dec 30, 2017
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March 26th, 2018 at 9:09:36 PM permalink
Quote: MrBo

I have read a lot of this thread, but I didn't go all the way back to the beginning, so let me ask you a question.



My mistake, I was referencing your other long running thread.

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