billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 21st, 2018 at 2:10:42 PM permalink
I just think you are overcomplicating things. That's all.
bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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March 21st, 2018 at 3:04:29 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Bill Ryan did say that 16 vs 10 was the worst hand starting hand in BJ and the Wizard agreed with him. To be fair to the both of them, ....




To be fair, I read the question as "worst starting hands", plural, so I did not think Billryan said it was the worst hand, just one of the worst hands. And then you came along and added 16 vs Ace. Altogether, excellent thread so far. A fun read.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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March 21st, 2018 at 3:12:26 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

You want an interesting result. Hit a six card Charlie on a single deck VBJ machine.



If I had known this was to develop into such a good thread as it was with yours and Gordon's posts, I would not have contaminated it with something different, just kinda responding to ZenKing.

Still, though, I don't follow you on this particular comment. Care to explain it for simple me? Be patient.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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March 21st, 2018 at 3:21:45 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888


But, not so fast! In a traditional BJ strategy table, a pair of 7s vs 10 would get its own square -and its EV = -50.97% making it even worse than 16 vs 10 and qualifying it as the single worst "hand" in Single Deck Blackjack. So, maybe its a matter of definition.



Appreciate all your additions to this thread. Reading your comments here regarding 77 v T, it reminded me of one of my favorite discussions, the "Key Card Concept" that Sklansky dedicated a chapter to in his 'Getting The Best of It'. Some pretty cool reading.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
billryan
billryan
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March 21st, 2018 at 4:19:48 PM permalink
VBJ machines say a six card Charlie is a winner, but the game doesn't automatically end with your six cards.
On these machines, an 8,3, ten is 21 and your hand is done. An 8,2,Ace is also 21 but as it is a soft hand you need to hit stand before the game progresses.
When you get a six card( non hard 21) Charlie, it appears like you have an option to take a seventh card. Hit the hit button and see what happens. Don't say you weren't warned.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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Thanks for this post from:
allinriverking
March 21st, 2018 at 4:40:19 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

VBJ machines say a six card Charlie is a winner, but the game doesn't automatically end with your six cards.
On these machines, an 8,3, ten is 21 and your hand is done. An 8,2,Ace is also 21 but as it is a soft hand you need to hit stand before the game progresses.
When you get a six card( non hard 21) Charlie, it appears like you have an option to take a seventh card. Hit the hit button and see what happens. Don't say you weren't warned.



Ok, I see. Thanks. But we're talking apples and oranges, and on the apples that I've played, six cards is a winner, period, game over. Primarily IGT Game Kings.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
allinriverking
allinriverking
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March 21st, 2018 at 6:12:05 PM permalink
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I was thinking any hands that have a starting total of 12-16, when the dealer's upcard isn't a 2 through 6 card are pretty bad starting hands.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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March 22nd, 2018 at 8:38:33 AM permalink
Yes. That is a basic concept of Blackjack that is important to understand. Playing a stiff hand, 12-16, is always an unfavorable situation and dealer cards in the range of 7-A are more formidable than small cards in the range of 2-6.

Surprisingly, there's an exception. A 12vs2 or 12vs3 are somewhat worse than a 12vs7. Therefore, when you have a 12, you should prefer to face a 7 rather than a 2 or a 3.

Hit 12vs2 EV = - 25.26 %
Hit 12vs3 EV = - 23.23
Stand 12vs4 EV = - 20.59
Stand 12vs5 EV = - 16.29
Stand 12vs6 EV = - 12.14

Hit 12vs7 EV = - 21.27 %
Hit 12vs8 EV = - 27.19
Hit 12vs9 EV = - 34.05
Hit 12vs10 EV = - 37.70
Hit 12vsA EV = - 38.36
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
Lucca3927
Lucca3927
Joined: Aug 5, 2017
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March 22nd, 2018 at 10:04:13 AM permalink
When the dealer deals himself a Blackjack.
"I should have bet black." - Winston Churchill .
allinriverking
allinriverking
Joined: Feb 3, 2010
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March 22nd, 2018 at 12:03:25 PM permalink
Quote: Lucca3927

When the dealer deals himself a Blackjack.


Nice.....

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