When Not to Double?

So I'm browsing blackjackinfo.com and was reading this page and it got me thinking about NOT doubling when the count goes negative. Currently I always follow BS regarding doubling, even when the count goes negative--except when the TC <-2, at which point I've learned to wong out.

The game I play is 6D, NS, H17, DAS and my basic strategy is rock solid. My grasp of the I18 is very good (but not perfect yet). The aforementioned webpage lists several "variations" from BS, but they're based on a S17 game. How different is the H17 game, with respect to doubling when the count is negative?

I believe I could handle memorizing a few (3-4) more indices when the TC = -1 (or even -2). In other words, what are some situations when I should not double? Does anyone have any to recommend?

Theorie

p.s. my counting skills are slowly but surely improving. For perhaps the first time ever, I took insurance because the TC was +3 and it worked! (Of course, because it was a full table and lots of high cards were dealt, the count after that hand dropped below +3 so I didn't take insurance for the next two hands, when the dealer had consecutive BJs, for a total of 3 in a row! But at least my bet was lower as well.)

Is this the information you are looking for?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2YmSSfUpaYMUUVOX1k3SVd6WTg/view?usp=drivesdk

Quote: prozema

Is this the information you are looking for?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2YmSSfUpaYMUUVOX1k3SVd6WTg/view?usp=drivesdk

It looks good; I'll check it out! Thanks.

Good luck with your counting!

The differences between indexes for S17 and H17 are minor. For example, in S17 you double 11 v A at +1, in H17 the index is 0. In S17 you double A8 v 6 at +1, in H17 the index is 0.

Hit 9 v 3 at -1 or lower is a good place to start.
Hit 10 v 9 at -1 or lower.
Hit 11 v T at -4 or lower.

You should memorize 2 new indexes a day. After a month you will have all that you will ever need. All you have to do is pick two indexes in the morning, then at three intervals throughout the day spend a couple minutes going over them. easy peezy.

If a pro counter provides information that is different from the chart I posted, listen to them. I'm an amateur at best when it comes to counting.

Quote: BlackjackGuy123

The differences between indexes for S17 and H17 are minor. For example, in S17 you double 11 v A at +1, in H17 the index is 0. In S17 you double A8 v 6 at +1, in H17 the index is 0.

Hit 9 v 3 at -1 or lower is a good place to start.
Hit 10 v 9 at -1 or lower.
Hit 11 v T at -4 or lower.

You should memorize 2 new indexes a day. After a month you will have all that you will ever need. All you have to do is pick two indexes in the morning, then at three intervals throughout the day spend a couple minutes going over them. easy peezy.

The top 18 indices give you the best bang for your buck, according to most literature.

Quote: billryan

The top 18 indices give you the best bang for your buck, according to most literature.

Again I'm no Pro, but I was under the impression that insurance was half the value. I kind of think about it like penalty cards in video poker. Sure you're going to get some more EV but not much...

Quote: prozema

Again I'm no Pro, but I was under the impression that insurance was half the value. I kind of think about it like penalty cards in video poker. Sure you're going to get some more EV but not much...

Insurance is the biggest. That's for sure.

Quote: BlackjackGuy123

The differences between indexes for S17 and H17 are minor. For example, in S17 you double 11 v A at +1, in H17 the index is 0. In S17 you double A8 v 6 at +1, in H17 the index is 0.

Hit 9 v 3 at -1 or lower is a good place to start.
Hit 10 v 9 at -1 or lower.
Hit 11 v T at -4 or lower.

You should memorize 2 new indexes a day. After a month you will have all that you will ever need. All you have to do is pick two indexes in the morning, then at three intervals throughout the day spend a couple minutes going over them. easy peezy.

Thanks, BJGUy! The game I play is H17, so I know the BS for that game, and I know the I18 as well. I'll incorporate your first two suggestions, but as I don't play the game at -4 (I wong out when the TC is lower than -2), I won't need that one.

You can probably ask the same question about taking insurance. If you know that the deck is rich should you take the suckers bet? Personally, I always stick to Basic.

A2 v 5 is another one, double in positive counts hit in negative counts. A8 v 6 is a basic strategy double but you should double A8 v 5 at +1.

Quote: Lucca3927

You can probably ask the same question about taking insurance. If you know that the deck is rich should you take the suckers bet? Personally, I always stick to Basic.

I always stick to the BS. But the other night I was playing and the count was +3, dealer shows an ace, and I take the insurance. Dealer has BJ, so I did the right thing! (I was dealt a 20.) I know that taking insurance/even money is the #1 play index the Illustrious 18. As I mentioned in my original post, for the very next hand the count dropped to below +3, so when the dealer had another ace, I didn't take the insurance, and lost when he showed a 2nd straight BJ. And the count dropped even lower, so I didn't take insurance when the dealer dealt himself a third consecutive BJ! Oh well, them's the breaks. . .

Quote: BlackjackGuy123

A2 v 5 is another one, double in positive counts hit in negative counts. A8 v 6 is a basic strategy double but you should double A8 v 5 at +1.

Thanks!