hole card

Hi all, Im new to blackjack and am still trying to get some clear info, irrespective of the 1000 websites out there offering it, so many assume you know something, but not everything, and I am yet to fill in the blanks entirely on the subject of holes cards, as I haven't seen this at play in australia here.

What I've gathered is that the dealer checks for bj, asks for insurance, then if he does clears the table, otherwise plays on.

The benefit I can imagine is that if I lost out, I would only lose my original bet (or half), rather than doubling up/splitting and potentially throwing away a heap.

Having 'hole card' play is good for the player, yes?

cheers
blackorange

The dealer should ask for insurance prior to checking for blackjack.

I might be wrong about this, but I think the rule has always been that you only lose your original bet in the event of a split or double against a dealer blackjack. The dealer checking for blackjack prior to play just saves time and eliminates cards being pulled needlessly from the shoe. More hands per hour for the casino.

Except, I believe, at SouthPoint where the hand is played out before a dealer looks at his card. No peek, no mirror, no nothing. Atleast, so I understand from what I've read.

Quote: FleaStiff

Except, I believe, at SouthPoint where the hand is played out before a dealer looks at his card. No peek, no mirror, no nothing. Atleast, so I understand from what I've read.

I could be wrong, but I thought they used the mirror to check with an ace up. If it is a 10 up, they don't peek at all. If the dealer does get a blackjack, the player will lose only his original wager.

Quote: FleaStiff

Except, I believe, at SouthPoint where the hand is played out before a dealer looks at his card. No peek, no mirror, no nothing. Atleast, so I understand from what I've read.

I was there earlier in the week, and you are correct, there is no mirror on the table and they do not peek. However, you will only lose your original bet if the dealer has BJ, even if you've split/doubled, etc.

Quote: MathExtremist

I was there earlier in the week, and you are correct, there is no mirror on the table and they do not peek. However, you will only lose your original bet if the dealer has BJ, even if you've split/doubled, etc.

I stand corrected then. I think I confused the South Point with the Suncoast. It is easy to do, they look very similar.

Quote: blackorange

Having 'hole card' play is good for the player, yes?

cheers
blackorange

I was just reading some articles at the Wizard of Odds site
This page does a great job on explaining the differences.
https://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/australian.html

I know in the Reno area a few casinos still have No Peek Blackjack. I think its useless. I think some casinos are under the impression that it makes the game go faster.
To play out all hands just to lose your original bet.
Seems to slow the game down since most players then start asking questions.

It does seem silly to play out rather than check. How can doing anything else do anything other than slow down the game?

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I seem to recall that in many foreign casinos they dealer doesn't take a hole card until after all the players play out their hands.

I also believe that in at least some of them, the entire wager, doubles and splits included, are at risk if the dealer draws a BJ.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It does seem silly to play out rather than check. How can doing anything else do anything other than slow down the game?

DJ, I agree with you. When I taught dealers school in Reno way back in the 90s, I had to teach both ways. Peek and No Peek. The Dealers hand always received a hole card, unlike it is now played in Europe. None of the dealers I knew liked it, so I guess go figure.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I seem to recall that in many foreign casinos they dealer doesn't take a hole card until after all the players play out their hands.

I also believe that in at least some of them, the entire wager, doubles and splits included, are at risk if the dealer draws a BJ.

That sounds like to me a higher HE for the players. something most players are not aware of.

Quote: 7craps

That sounds like to me a higher HE for the players. something most players are not aware of.

I agree. Then again, I wouldn't split or double even if the dealer peeks and doesn't have BJ! So against a no peek? Fuggedaboudit!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I agree. Then again, I wouldn't split or double even if the dealer peeks and doesn't have BJ!

Not even a pair of 8s or aces?

I look at it this way: When a dealer is showing an ace, he's got TWO chances to beat my score.

Quote: weaselman

Not even a pair of 8s or aces?

OK. Yeah, I'd split the aces. But I wouldn't feel good about it.

If I could, I'd surrender eights rather than double my risk. If not, then I'd hit.

For the record, I never hit 16 unless the dealer has an ace. Yeah, I know what the book says. But the other book says that the difference is extremely small....

Thanks for all your answers. Another thing dawned on me- of course, if the has checked for blackjack and doesn't have and plays on, well that would certainly be an advantage to the player, by at least a13th? (ie potentaially win 1/13 more games)

blackorange

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I look at it this way: When a dealer is showing an ace, he's got TWO chances to beat my score.

OK. Yeah, I'd split the aces. But I wouldn't feel good about it.

If I could, I'd surrender eights rather than double my risk. If not, then I'd hit.

For the record, I never hit 16 unless the dealer has an ace. Yeah, I know what the book says. But the other book says that the difference is extremely small....

The difference between splitting eights against the ace (-37.3%) and hitting (-51.7%) isn't all that small.
Standing on 16 against, say, 7 is -47.8%, hitting is -41.5%. This may look small, but it's still more than 6% difference in a 0.5% HE game.

The "other book" you mention must be talking about hitting vs. standing 16 against a 10 if you can't surrender or split. In that case it indeed pretty much doesn't matter - they are both about -54.0%. Hit is -53.98%, and stand is -54.04%. Now here I can agree that .06% is indeed a small difference. But if you can split, it's still -48.0% - a full 6% improvement

Hole card play is very valuable. If you were a psychic and knew what the dealer's hole card was, you would have an edge of 10 percent on every hand. Blackjack professionals developed many methods of determining the dealer hole card. These methods are now obsolete because the casinos wised up and constitute the range of countermeasures.

Quote: stinsonsmart

Hole card play is very valuable. If you were a psychic and knew what the dealer's hole card was, you would have an edge of 10 percent on every hand. Blackjack professionals developed many methods of determining the dealer hole card. These methods are now obsolete because the casinos wised up and constitute the range of countermeasures.

Eureka! That explains how casinos make so much money. They hire counter-psychics who confuse the psychic's ability to see the next card.

Blackjack is an interesting game in different popular casino games; now whether it is a land based blackjack or it is online blackjack. It is just a game of approaching 21. The player who is closest to 21 wins the game. Color cards are considered as 10's and Ace is sometimes considered as 1 and sometimes it is considered as 11, this depends on the player to use Ace as what value.

1hole
noun \ˈhōl\
Definition of HOLE
1
a : an opening through something : perforation <have a hole in my coat> b : an area where something is missing : gap: as (1) : a serious discrepancy : flaw, weakness <some holes in your logic> (2) : an opening in a defensive formation; especially : the area of a baseball field between the positions of shortstop and third baseman (3) : a defect in a crystal (as of a semiconductor) that is due to an electron's having left its normal position in one of the crystal bonds and that is equivalent in many respects to a positively charged particle
2
: a hollowed-out place: as a : a cave, pit, or well in the ground b : burrow c : an unusually deep place in a body of water (as a river)
3
a : a wretched or dreary place b : a prison cell especially for solitary confinement
4
a : a shallow cylindrical hole in the putting green of a golf course into which the ball is played b : a part of the golf course from tee to putting green <just beginning play on the third hole>; also : the play on such a hole as a unit of scoring <won the hole by two strokes>
5
a : an awkward position or circumstance : fix <got the rebels out of a hole at the battle — Kenneth Roberts> b : a position of owing or losing money <$10 million in the hole> <raising money to get out of the hole>
— in the hole
1
: having a score below zero
2
: at a disadvantage
Examples of HOLE

1. I have a hole in my sock.
2. He fixed the hole in the roof.
3. a mouse hole in the wall
4. The dog dug a deep hole.
5. Her putt rolled right into the hole.
6. She made a birdie on the seventh hole.
7. The course has 18 holes.

Origin of HOLE
Middle English, from Old English hol (from neuter of hol, adjective, hollow) & holh; akin to Old High German hol, adjective, hollow and perhaps to Old English helan to conceal — more at hell
First Known Use: before 12th century
Related to HOLE
Synonyms: aperture, opening, orifice, perforation
Antonyms: bulge, camber, convexity, jut, projection, protrusion, protuberance
Related Words: loophole; breach, break, chink, cleft, crack, cranny, crevice, cut, fissure, gash, notch, rent, rift, rupture, slash, slit, split, tear; slot, space; exit, mouth, outlet, pore, vent; entrance, inlet, intake; pinhole, pinprick, punch, puncture; airhole, armhole, buttonhole, keyhole, knothole, peephole, pothole, wormhole
Near Antonyms: fill, filler, filling, patch, plug, seal, stopper; barrier, blockage, obstacle, obstruction
see all synonyms and antonyms
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Rhymes with HOLE
bole, boll, bowl, coal, cole, Cole, dhole, dole, droll, foal, goal, knoll, kohl, Kohl, mole, ole, pole, poll, prole, role, roll, scroll, Seoul, shoal, skoal, sol, sole, soul, stole, stroll, thole, tole, toll, troll, vole, whole
[-]hide
bole, boll, bowl, coal, cole, Cole, dhole, dole, droll, foal, goal, knoll, kohl, Kohl, mole, ole, pole, poll, prole, role, roll, scroll, S...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I look at it this way: When a dealer is showing an ace, he's got TWO chances to beat my score.

OK. Yeah, I'd split the aces. But I wouldn't feel good about it.

If I could, I'd surrender eights rather than double my risk. If not, then I'd hit.

For the record, I never hit 16 unless the dealer has an ace. Yeah, I know what the book says. But the other book says that the difference is extremely small....

Actually, you're giving up quite a bit, because you're also supposed to hit a 16 against a 7,8,9, or 10, which is over half the remaining time. By hitting your 16 against a 7 or higher, you are increasing your chance of winning from about 22% to about 26%. This is huge over the course of even a short session, since you get dealt, or hit to, so many 16s.

Quote: jackblack21

Eureka! That explains how casinos make so much money. They hire counter-psychics who confuse the psychic's ability to see the next card.

Actually, they train dealers not to expose the hole card when they check for a blackjack, and the person they are now being trained not to expose it to is the person lurking several feet BEHIND the dealer.

A player can use hole card play against an inexperienced dealer; for instance, if the dealer checks twice under a ten, you can be pretty sure that the hole card is something that might look like an Ace at first glance: a 2 or 3 because of the way the pips are arranged, or a 4 because the upper part of the numeral looks like the upper part of an "A". Similarly, if such a dealer takes a very cursory glance under the card and resumes play, you can make a reasonable inference that the hole card was a "paint", or had a lot of pips, giving the dealer a strong pat hand. Such clues are why many casinos have installed the little plastic thingy that the dealer sticks his hand into to check for a blackjack.

Hole card play is very valuable. If you were a psychic and knew what the dealer's hole card was, you would have an edge of 10 percent on every hand. Blackjack professionals developed many methods of determining the dealer hole card. Hole-carding tell you exactly how to play knowing both dealer cards.

deleted

"Eurpoean No-Hole Card" = Lose all doubles/splits etc. - Disadvantage for the player

Regular No-Hole Card = Lose only original bet - Absolutely no HA difference to hole-card blackjack. Only slows the game down for the house. Player plays under the assumption that there is no dealer blackjack in either a Regular No-Hole Card or a Hole-Card case, but all hit/draw/stand/double/split plays are irrelevent if the dealer draws a blackjack after all hands are played on a Regular No-hole Card game. Unless you intend to hit/double a blackjack hand, in which case you jeapordize a possible push and win Vs a Hole-Card game where you jeapordise just a win, there is no difference.

No hole card in Aussie casinos, dealer BJ wins players' original bet only (in addition, splitting once only & no surrender).
When dealer's upcard is either an Ace (insurance is offered) or a 10, hole card is peeped. If no BJ, player will know that below Ace upcard is a 9 or less & below 10 upcard is not an Ace.
Player can then be more confident to split 8-8 or A-A or double down on 11 or 10.

Quote: mkl654321

... for instance, if the dealer checks twice under a ten, you can be pretty sure that the hole card is something that might look like an Ace at first glance: a 2 or 3 because of the way the pips are arranged, or a 4 because the upper part of the numeral looks like the upper part of an "A".

Blackjack table slide-in "hole checkers" only show an Ace or nothing at all under a ten-card. A non-ace card cannot look like an ace, because nothing is seen for a non-ace card when the cards are slid vertically into the peeker. This is because Ace cards have a "four corner" pip design that shows up in a peeker, and non-ace cards have only a two pip design.

For checking tens under an Ace (when calling for insurance), the ten card pips are place at a higher location on the card, so that tens will show the pip and the non-ten cards also show nothing.

There is no non-ace card that "looks like an ace" because all non-ace cards show nothing when checking under a ten.
There is also no pip showing when for non-ten cards when looking under an ace (sliding the cards in sideways for a Ten check).

This loophole was closed long ago with standard casino deck and peeker designs, because it was a give-away if the dealer were to check twice on a four card.

A few months ago I was playing at a casino while their peekers were broken. The dealers were forced to check by hand, and they were sloppy about it because they never had to do it. The tells were amazing. I played for five hours, and still lost :(