small town casino

I have heard to break your bankroll into three different sessions in playing blackjack. I live in Kentucky and there are no local casinos. I have to travel to NC, Ohio, or IN to play blackjack at a casino. There is only one $5 table or $10 table; so do you play your bankroll with a total stop loss of 50% with win rate of 40% at one session or save up to move into the $25 table in order to break it down into the three sessions.

Quote: aceK

I have heard to break your bankroll into three different sessions in playing blackjack. I live in Kentucky and there are no local casinos. I have to travel to NC, Ohio, or IN to play blackjack at a casino. There is only one $5 table or $10 table; so do you play your bankroll with a total stop loss of 50% with win rate of 40% at one session or save up to move into the $25 table in order to break it down into the three sessions.

Welcome to the forum, aceK!

Perhaps the readers can give you a more informed reply if you tell us

- a range of your bankroll
- are you playing 3:2 or 6:5 BJ?
- SD, DD, or multi-deck BJ?
- a rough idea of HE, heat, other table games besides BJ?

Or, consider reading the 3 articles of Romes|

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-In-Blackjack-2/

https://wizardofvegas.com/article/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-In-Blackjack-3/

Good luck!

I'm just starting to make it a little more then just a few trips a qtr. I would like to do it more often.

bankroll of $500 to $1000
3:2
8 decks
80% pen
split any up to 4 times except aces one time
double down after split

I have the basic memorized and starting to learn how to count using hi/low

trying a progressive betting system win one pull then half of the winning hand for the next bet "up and pull"

they have 5, 10, 15, 25, and high roller 50 min bets

Lose the progressive betting system, it's worse than useless. Why are you any more likely to win the second bet than the first one? Short answer- you are not, so why have more money out there? Learn an easy count that can be expanded as you get more proficient with it. I personally think KISS is the easiest to learn, but its a personal choice. Is there any difference in the rules between the $5 and $25 table? Betting $25 or more a hand with a bankroll of $500 is ,while not exactly suicidal, not good for your bankrolls long term health. It's akin to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. It will stunt your bankrolls growth.

there is no difference in the $5 and $25 tables

the KISS system starts with a -16 count for 8 deck, correct, -2 per deck

the KISS system has blk 2 and 4 - 6 as +1 and J, Q, K as -1

Here is a link. I think it'sallowed, if not I'm sure someone will have it removed.
https://www.gamblingsites.org/casino/blackjack/card-counting/kiss/

It starts simple and as you get comfortable, you add more cards to it.

thank you

I guess you will bet the min until +2 then up bet 5 if you are doing 1 - 5 correct

You can get a cheap copy of Blackjack Bluebook on Amazon. It's a great read and has some other plays you will never think of on your own. Best of luck.

Quote: aceK

I'm just starting to make it a little more then just a few trips a qtr. I would like to do it more often.

bankroll of $500 to $1000
3:2
8 decks
80% pen
split any up to 4 times except aces one time
double down after split

I have the basic memorized and starting to learn how to count using hi/low

trying a progressive betting system win one pull then half of the winning hand for the next bet "up and pull"

they have 5, 10, 15, 25, and high roller 50 min bets

aceK,

See what I mean? Now that you've provided a little more info about your game, some of the experienced folk like billryan are more likely to leave you with some pearls of wisdom.

It would still help to know if your casino(s) have any heat, or if you can get the HE (house edge). This could affect how you want to spread your bet and ramp.

I don't have a link to the HE outside of Las Vegas, but here's a link to the house edge calculator on the WoV website. I came up with a HE of 0.64493 for the game you described. You can see from the calculator how each condition changes the edge in (or against) your favor.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

Only you can determine what the heat is like at your casino, but here's a link to a "heat map" from qfit, another one of the experienced players. Click on the states you visit to compare relative "heat"!

https://www.qfit.com/maps.shtml

I'm still a novice at this myself, but here's what I calculated for your HE below. I'll leave you to absorb this info, and maybe some folk will post and/or correct what I've added so far.

I really think you'll benefit from reading Romes's articles!

Quote: aceK

I have heard

cue alarm bells, OP is listening to random gamblers? If so, probability of bad advice is extremely high

Quote:

to break your bankroll into three different sessions in playing blackjack...

For the bankroll aspect of your question, I have only heard* of the Kelly Criterion. Breaking up the bankroll does not come up at all and probably is just some dumb crap that comes out of the mouths of other gamblers and dealers.

You've made the right move by coming here where, depending on your own ability to screen out good from bad advice, you can be put on the right track. Check out the link.

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/kelly-criterion/

*but I mean from experts like the Wizard !!

I think the heat for Harrah Cherokee is heat 2 and horseshoe in southern Indiana is a heat 7

I'm not sure what heat means but I'm learning

This site is a great help along with a lot of wisdom from everyone

You are better off saving your money than trying to play HS Indy if your hopes are to make money. At least 2/6 decks cut off most tables, and more likely to find dealers shading the other way dealing out 3-3.5 than finding a 4.5.

I don't think Qfit's chart is for heat levels, I think it's for number of s17 games,3 to 2 games 6to5 games etc..,not a casinos tolerance.

Quote: Hunterhill

I don't think Qfit's chart is for heat levels, I think it's for number of s17 games,3 to 2 games 6to5 games etc..,not a casinos tolerance.

Thanks for the clarification!

Quote: aceK

I'm not sure what heat means but I'm learning.

Heat is the (unwanted) amount of attention the Pit Boss or eye in the sky puts on your play. Based on what I've read (not experienced), if your play is in any fashion "too good" (your spread, your ramping, your winning, etc,) you'll be approached and could be asked to either flatbet (table minimum only) or asked to play another game. Maybe those who have had the experience can further enlighten us.

Heat is fairly volatile and individualized. Anything that makes a player look out of the ordinary brings attention. If its both out of the ordinary and the player is winning it tends to be of even increased concern to the casino. Every moment that a player engages in some ploy to conceal his skills, it costs him money in less-than-optimal play.

I'd recommend just finding a good set of rules and dealing style and go with it. Don't waste your time or energy or skills on avoiding heat, just play the game and enjoy the results.

Heat can vary by shift, personnel quirks, management memos, etc.

Quote: aceK

thank you

I guess you will bet the min until +2 then up bet 5 if you are doing 1 - 5 correct

With KISS, in eight decks, you start the count at 16. It's been years since I played eight decks so I honestly don't remember the numbers to ramp up. I do remember the spread is 1-12. I play double deck. The spread is 2-6, dropping to one when the count goes bad.

Quote: aceK

thank you

I guess you will bet the min until +2 then up bet 5 if you are doing 1 - 5 correct

With KISS, in eight decks, you start the count at 16. It's been years since I played eight decks so I honestly don't remember the numbers to ramp up. I do remember the spread is 1-12. I play double deck. The spread is 2-6, dropping to one when the count goes bad.
You aren't going to beat eight decks spreading 1-4 or 1-5.
As far as splitting your bankroll up, the idea is while on vacation, you don't drop your entire bankroll to your first session and end up watching tv the rest of the weekend. If you plan on playing an hour in the morning and another in the afternoon each day for three days, it's practical to split the bankroll in six.
Just for the record, while I'm an experienced player, I am not an expert. Simply a student of the game.

Hey aceK, and welcome to the forums.

If your bankroll is $1k, that would be about enough to play at the $5 tables with a $5-$40 spread. You should take at least 10 max bets with you to the casino each session (and that's on the low end - 20 is more ideal), so about $400.

Is your bankroll replenishable? Meaning, say you lose your $1,000... which CAN HAPPEN with the natural variance of the game, are you willing to commit more money to blackjack? If so, then you can theoretically count this money as part of your bankroll too. That means if you're willing to invest another $1k if you lose the first $1k then you have a theoretical bankroll of $2k, and you can base your bets/Risk of Ruin (RoR) from that.

As LW shared, I have 3 articles on this site that I think you could really benefit A LOT from by reading, and re-reading them. They go "from A to Z" in everything you'll need to know to have a winning game. In my experienced opinion, you do not have a wininng game until you can provide the following information before a session:

1) House Edge
2) Bet Spread
3) Risk of Ruin (RoR)
4) Expected Hourly Value (EV)
5) Standard Deviations (to understand the possible swings you could see)

All of this is ASIDE from learning to actually count using Hi/Low, or whatever system of your choice you're most comfortable with. I only push Hi/Low because quite often you might have questions about your count, and questions about other less popular systems will be more difficult to get exact answers on. Also, in just my opinion, I feel it's the best bang for your buck in terms of simplicity and effectiveness. You should evaluate as many systems as you like and whichever one (that's main stream - so no Ace/5 count, etc) seems simplest to you that's the one for you (since you'll make the least amount of costly mistakes with it).

I hope you do re-visit LW first response to this thread on page 1 and take a look through the 3 articles. There's A LOT of useful information in there you should know before diving in to blackjack and the world of card counting =). Good luck, and feel free to post any followup questions or send me a PM.

Quote: Romes

As LW shared, I have 3 articles on this site that I think you could really benefit A LOT from by reading, and re-reading them.

aceK, FYI, if you're hesitant about reading, let me share:

1. I've re-read all 3 articles 5 times, and the lights still go in in my brain with "aha" moments like "So THAT'S what they mean by 'heat' (or back counting, or short buy- in). . .

2. I already added comments to each article - the first one is the most challenging.

3. Don't stop asking questions, especially the ones you think are 'stupid'. There's always someone with an answer. Having said that, you'll gradually distinguish between whose answers you can do without, and the ones you'll always look forward to reading. Share as much as you're comfortable sharing about yourself and your play - states or casino names you visit (there WILL be someone else who's been there), your gambling woes (someone else has already experienced that), and more.

I rather enjoy Romes's posts, and I usually read and re-read all of them.

If the heat does visit you, tell 'em you were counting CARBS, not CARDS.

Quote: FleaStiff

Heat can vary by shift, personnel quirks, management memos, etc.

FS - thanks for adding your clarifications!

aceK - I found an undercover video that shows heat and what it's like to get backed off.

https://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/casino-backoff/

A tiny part of me (very tiny) says "Wow! I got backed off! They recognized me as a card counter!"

A larger part of me says I'll probably wet my pants the first time I get approached!

Enjoy!

thank you for all the help

I am looking into trying to make a go at this in a small way. it is a little bit of an effort, 2 1/2 hr drive to horseshoe southern Indiana or 3 1/2 harrah casino

I do have a replenishing means which would help in continue this endeavor

I am trying to practice as much as I can before making the journey to the casinos

Do they have casino buses where you live? They will sometimes offer bonuses that make the trip worthwhile, as well as eliminating the fatigue that comes with a long drive.
Its not a great idea to drain yourself mentally on a long drive and then sit right down to play.

Quote: aceK

I am trying to practice as much as I can before making the journey to the casinos.

I also practice daily before visiting my favorite casino, Main Street Station in downtown Las Vegas.

Does your practice include "counting down" a deck?

I made flash cards for the strategy and learning kiss system as a newbie counter