Dealer mistakenly paid when he is not supposed to

Quote: RS

Floor who noticed the blackjack + T + 8 + 4 (or whatever it was) didn't do anything, he was in such shock. He came over to me (I was dealing craps) and told me what happened and sorta jokingly asked what he should do.....like this scenario is so messed up, I can't really do anything can I, it's too great of a moment.

Yeah, it's just too funny to even process in the moment. You just pull out your phone and say world star. This sounds like a great boss and a great place to work. Though, he'd probably wanna backroom the nearest AP making $5/hour.

Ok a few more stories. Some of used to see how drunk we could get and deal without taking an EO. One New Yesrs Eve a friend was moving the cards around the board while the players were betting. He was messing with them pretty hard. The floor just EOed him after a player suggested he might need it. I was drinking grape whatever and vodka going from game to game putting my drink in the 9 seat. Never got questioned once about why I was drinking in between shuffles. I still know a dealer to this day who always carries a sprite bottle with him while dealing and setting it by his foot. The town isn't as fun as it used to be but neither am I.

I've had dealers take my money mistakenly when I have actually won. When I caught the mistake, they obviously gave me the money back and my winnings without question. Who knows if it's actually happened where I didn't catch the mistake and they kept my money when they should have paid me.

On the other side of the coin, I've been mistakenly paid by dealers who thought I won. Honestly, I think this has only happened once in my life at a craps table, and I didn't exactly say the chips weren't mine, but I gave the dealer every opportunity to realize his mistake and at one point even said, "Are you sure that's mine?" or something to that effect. I grabbed the chips and left the table.

I would gladly give the money back if a dealer made a mistake and caught it, but casinos already have a license to print money so if no one catches the mistake then I'm keeping my mouth shut.

Quote: monet0412

Ok a few more stories. Some of used to see how drunk we could get and deal without taking an EO. One New Yesrs Eve a friend was moving the cards around the board while the players were betting. He was messing with them pretty hard. The floor just EOed him after a player suggested he might need it. I was drinking grape whatever and vodka going from game to game putting my drink in the 9 seat. Never got questioned once about why I was drinking in between shuffles. I still know a dealer to this day who always carries a sprite bottle with him while dealing and setting it by his foot. The town isn't as fun as it used to be but neither am I.

How about all the lines of coke some dealers used to do to keep themselves going "back in the day?"

Quote: MrV

How about all the lines of coke some dealers used to do to keep themselves going "back in the day?"

I was never into it but many were. Many of them still owe me money! I think my favorite story is the dice dealer who went over to the Nugget for a few drinks on his break. After his break he pushed back in and went about paying players on his side of the table. Another dealer tapped him on the shoulder and said your in my spot. The drunk dealer said: "What do you mean?" Well this is the Golden Nugget... you deal across the street at The Horseshoe!

Quote: Zourah

If I'm playing poker and I can see my neighbors cards I always tell them. Yes, I guess technically they are supposed to protect their own hand but that feels like stealing to me. Typically, if this happens it is an older person who has a hard time seeing, I just couldn't live with myself if I took advantage of that.

I stopped telling people because It just leads to problems. Last time it went down like this. Me, "Hey, be careful I can see your hand." Opponent, " WELL STOP LOOKING THEN!!"

Sure, I can do my best not to see their cards, but even then, you can't always avoid or control what your eyes see.
And now I have to not ever look at the guy's chips or actions he is making just to make sure I don't see his hand.
Why do I get penalized for him being an idiot?

Quote: AxelWolf

I stopped telling people because It just leads to problems. Last time it went down like this. Me, "Hey, be careful I can see your hand." Opponent, " WELL STOP LOOKING THEN!!"

Sure, I can do my best not to see their cards, but even then, you can't always avoid or control what your eyes see.
And now I have to not ever look at the guy's chips or actions he is making just to make sure I don't see his hand.
Why do I get penalized for him being an idiot?

A few months ago I was sitting next to an older guy who couldnt see well. I was sitting to his left and saw his cards every single hand. 2 guys on the other end of the table were throwing a fit because in wasn't fair that I had that knowledge. I played very nice with the guy next to me because I felt bad. The floor was called a few times. He would tell the guy to protect his hand. After the fact I was talking to the floor about it and he didn't know what to do because the guy clearly had a disability and he didn't want to cause an issueb with ada or whatever it is called.

Nice stories about not taking advantage of information in poker games by you two. It's kinda like telling someone a lie so you don't hurt their feelings which is righteous to some people, however telling someone a lie to exploit them is unrighteous. For me this is no difference. They are both lies which makes the person a liar. Anyway... what I don't understand is why you two just don't pick up your chips and leave the game as soon as this problem starts. Funny conversation though. Let's play a game centered around telling lies, trickery with table image, stealing and collusion all the time. However don't lie, cheat or steal while playing. I think it's better for someone with a conscious to play a game that isn't centered around winning money. Think about how difficult it is to play straight and watch the money suck down the rake, jackpot rake, dealer tokes and waitress tokes. Simple math... 9 players... 900 on the table... 40 hands an hour... max rakes 6 dollars = 240 off the table per hour plus tokes another 35 to go low... that's 275 off the table an hour and that's a low ball estimate... also factor in the sharks or players playing on the same bankroll or colluding... fun game!!!

Quote: GWAE

A few months ago I was sitting next to an older guy who couldnt see well. I was sitting to his left and saw his cards every single hand. 2 guys on the other end of the table were throwing a fit because in wasn't fair that I had that knowledge. I played very nice with the guy next to me because I felt bad. The floor was called a few times. He would tell the guy to protect his hand. After the fact I was talking to the floor about it and he didn't know what to do because the guy clearly had a disability and he didn't want to cause an issue with ada or whatever it is called.

This is totally different from what I'm talking about.

Recently I was playing 2/5 next to a young guy(He was Asian American) who was playing like a semi-pro( Personally, I think he was way too tight). The reason I could see his cards is that he was bending and Lifting them at a fairly high angle. That's dumb, there is no reason to ever do that. Ya, I have been sloppy after a few drinks(10 or so). He was angling them so the people on his right could not see, so it's not like he was some poor fella just there to have fun (a side note: he was disciplined enough to NEVER look at his cards until it was his turn). I think he must have thought his high stack of chips were blocking the players to his left(ME). Perhaps he had to do this because he was so tall?(Yes, he was a very tall Asian)

Naturally, if it's his turn, I'm going to be looking at him and what his hands are doing.

In reality, you didn't really need to see the guys cards to know basically what he had, he was rarely in any hands that I was anyways.

Back to looking at your cards. You should never have to even lift your cards off the table. A quick 1 handed 2 finger corner snap less than 1/8 of an inch is more than enough, you should be able to see just a tiny bit of each rank and know what the card is. No one else should ever be able to see your cards if you do it like that. I have had people oftentimes say you didn't even look at your cards.

Quote: monet0412

It's kinda like telling someone a lie so you don't hurt their feelings which is righteous to some people, however telling someone a lie to exploit them is unrighteous. For me this is no difference. They are both lies which makes the person a liar.

Agreed, to a point. The 10 Commandments aren't "suggestions," and they do prohibit lying.

But, I always remember Miss Lillian, mother of President Jimmy Carter, who -- even though she was Southern Baptist through and through -- was famous for saying a little "white lie" now and then was OK.

I remember a reporter traveled to Miss Lillian's home in Georgia to do an interview about her just-published book. Noting the commandment in the Bible leaves little wriggle room, the reporter asked Miss Lillian to give an example of a lie that might be OK in her view. Miss Lillian answered, "Remember when you arrived this morning, and I greeted you at the front door?" The reporter said she recalled the warm greeting she received. Miss Lillian continued, "And, then I said, 'What a pretty dress you are wearing.'"

"Why, yes," the reporter replied, "I ... " (silent pause) "Ahem, next question..."

I'll let God sort out the degree to which Miss Lillian's "white lies" broke His commandment. This link has another reference to Miss Lillian's white lies.

And, as Miss Lillian might say, thanx so much for your thought-provoking post. It truly made my day.

Where it gets really awkward is when the dealer mispays you and then a few seconds later when scooping the cards up you can tell that they realized they made a mistake. Most mispays in my experience happen at ultimate texas hold'em. It usually involves the dealer paying the ante when they don't qualify or missing that they have a straight or flush. It happened the other day to me. Frankly I missed that the dealer had a flush as well. I always leave the chips up there for several seconds after a misspay so as to play dumb. If they realized they mispayed, most scoop the cards quickly and hope nobody catches it rather than call the floor over and admit they made a mistake.

I have no problem taking a mispay. I feel it's a game we're playing and that's part of it. When asked to pay it back I will, although this has never happened to me except when it was immediately realized. I will however never take a mispay when it involves buying or cashing chips. That's an even exchange of goods and is akin to an overpayment and not a mispay.

Quote: ECoaster

What about telling a fellow player that they were underpaid?

Years ago I was playing 3CP and a woman next to me had a nice hit (maybe straight flush) and the dealer paid the pair plus bet but left out the ante bonus part. I calmly mentioned to her that it wasn't right, but the dealer said it was and she didn't argue. I just figured oh well. She was playing multiple greens on each hand so there was a decent amount involved.

Dealers often forget to pay the Ante bonus if the player loses the Ante bet. I always point it out of it happens at the table...

Quote: AxelWolf

I stopped telling people because It just leads to problems. Last time it went down like this. Me, "Hey, be careful I can see your hand." Opponent, " WELL STOP LOOKING THEN!!"

Sure, I can do my best not to see their cards, but even then, you can't always avoid or control what your eyes see.
And now I have to not ever look at the guy's chips or actions he is making just to make sure I don't see his hand.
Why do I get penalized for him being an idiot?

I was on a cruise about 6 years back. On cruises "usually" they have the electronic poker table where each player gets a screen and you have to tap the screen and cover the bottom of it and it'll show you your cards. Then you can click bet/raise/fold and amounts on the screen and it goes around the table like normal. Anyways there was this REALLY drunk guy next to me at the table and he was berating the table as I was just sitting down making fun of everyone and telling everyone how good he was. Well, on the first hand I noticed he didn't block his hole cards from my position... It took me about 45 minutes to clean out his $1500 at the 1/2 game we were playing. He raised nearly every pot, so I'd call every single time and just shove on him when he had nothing and call his big bets down / raise on the river when I had him beat. He was furious that I "had his number" and I didn't feel an ounce of bad about it... still don't.

Quote: Romes

I was on a cruise about 6 years back. On cruises "usually" they have the electronic poker table where each player gets a screen and you have to tap the screen and cover the bottom of it and it'll show you your cards. Then you can click bet/raise/fold and amounts on the screen and it goes around the table like normal. Anyways there was this REALLY drunk guy next to me at the table and he was berating the table as I was just sitting down making fun of everyone and telling everyone how good he was. Well, on the first hand I noticed he didn't block his hole cards from my position... It took me about 45 minutes to clean out his $1500 at the 1/2 game we were playing. He raised nearly every pot, so I'd call every single time and just shove on him when he had nothing and call his big bets down / raise on the river when I had him beat. He was furious that I "had his number" and I didn't feel an ounce of bad about it... still don't.

I don't think any less of you for this.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't think any less of you for this.

Less? I thought you'd be proud of me =).

I've got no problem victimizing sloppy poker players. The whole point of live poker is to exploit your opponents weaknesses. F etiquette!

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The whole point of live poker is to exploit your opponents weaknesses. F etiquette!

But not the casino's weaknesses or for the casino to exploit your weaknesses.

I was once at a carival game and announced to a companion I've won instead of making a required additional bet. The dealer took a chip from my stack, made the now tardy additional bet, then paid that bet for the camera. He got a tip! He had heard my comment and knew I didn't understand the rules.

Quote: monet0412

I actually dealt poker for a few years in town. I dealt the WSOP 7 years. My friend who taught me how to deal used to F the house as much as possible. I've dealt for 8 hours solid without taking any rake... because F them! At times I would only take a dollar just so the camera would have something to see. I never had one floor person tell either of us about it. Security never once ever came down. No player ever said a word. You would think some sharp player would notice and tip more... nope. I've actually dealt games getting stiffed left and right and still wouldn't take a rake or at most 1 dollar. If I got in and the rack was down any amount I just made it up from the rake. So many smart ethical poker players but not one time in all my experience dealing did I have one player mention or even give a wink or smile. Not one of these honest players said... uhh you forgot the rake. Another friend of mine dealt some time games and was taking 25 dollars a hand... not one player noticed but he told the floor and they gave them 5 hrs free. My point is... ahhhh I forgot my point but the stories are true. On another note when I ran tournaments I stole over 100 dollars in re buys every day for months with no trouble ever... anyways... stealing is just part of the business.

No one has commented on this post by monet. I have bolded his text about stealing money from player's rebuys.

To all the sanctimonious airbags on this site who keep saying that the casino never cheats the players: please never say that again.

Quote: Romes

Less? I thought you'd be proud of me =).

It would be impossible for me to think any less of you (-;

Less is more.

Quote: gordonm888

No one has commented on this post by monet. I have bolded his text about stealing money from player's rebuys.

To all the sanctimonious airbags on this site who keep saying that the casino never cheats the players: please never say that again.

This isn't Casino cheating... it is Employee Theft which runs rampant all the time. Usually it is either the Employees stealing from Casinos or in Poker it is Employees stealing from the Players and the Casino. Either way if you play poker someone is stealing from you... either by the Casino from raking you over the coals, Employees Stealing from you or the Players teaming up against you.

Quote: AxelWolf

It would be impossible for me to think any less of you (-;

Less is more.

I bet this is your last solid line for getting a girl in bed... (both sentences).

Quote: monet0412

This isn't Casino cheating... it is Employee Theft which runs rampant all the time. Usually it is either the Employees stealing from Casinos or in Poker it is Employees stealing from the Players and the Casino. Either way if you play poker someone is stealing from you... either by the Casino from raking you over the coals, Employees Stealing from you or the Players teaming up against you.

The rake is clearly posted.
Collusion is pretty rare, at least at lower stakes.

LOL at comparing the above two to employee theft.

One man, trying to become a poker dealer, auditioned to some floor types: he was a tad bit slow and forgot the final hand's rake. Yet of the eight men auditioned that day, he was the only one hired despite there having been no mistakes made by the others. They had been robots, he engaged the players in conversation. The casino wanted to give players a pleasant experience.

Relevance of this? Well, do you think theft is more likely from the automatons or the more personable chap who interacted with the players.

Quote: FleaStiff

Relevance of this? Well, do you think theft is more likely from the automatons or the more personable chap who interacted with the players.

In the end everyone is up to something. I know they cleaned up the image of poker to look more like golf. Who knows why that Break In got the job compared to the Veterans. HR is also a pain these days making you jump through plenty of hoops and in some places running credit checks on you to see if you qualify. I can tell you that when I have worked the floor I have had the worst dealers who could barely speak English offer me large sums of cash to get them in the house. Especially when Poker was going crazy 10+ years ago. One dealer gave me 5k to get him in. I tried to explain to him that I would just get him in because he asked but he would have nothing doing. Practically forced the 5k on me. I also tried to explain to him that if he wanted to work here he should transfer rooms because in a year or two this will die down a bit and this room might not make it. This happens all the time in every spot where dealers try to buy in... heck it used to be mandatory. People in power tell me all the time that they can't do something because of the rules or laws, however, when someone they know personally it seems the rules change for that individual. Years ago long before the boom, if you wanted to work as a poker dealer you would have to pay the floor man a vig every shift. Why? The managers wanted a raise and the boss told him if you want a raise you take it out of your dealers because I am not giving it to you.

You guys want to believe that poker in its current form isn't just like the snatch games of old I understand. Funny watching the rake go over 5 dollars in some spots with a 2 dollar jackpot rake, not to mention the tournaments raking large amounts with impossible structures and asking you if you want to buy more chips and give the money to the dealers... and after the tournament beg for more tips lol. I also understand that nobody that knows anything doesn't want to talk about it on the internet. Why do I bring it up? I dunno. Fun, bored, don't care, being honest about being dishonest, bragging... I dunno I just don't like the sour taste I get when I read or listen to people telling me how honest they are and how honest Poker or the Casino life is. It truly is a Cest Pool with Hookers running all over the place. You ever run into a House Girl? That is a girl that the Casino has actually given permission for her to operate on property. I wouldn't doubt that some of the best girls get some sort of a salary from the Casino. However, I am sure that is very rare like collusion in low limit poker games... talk about LOL.

Has anyone but me on here dealt illegal games? Talk about stealing!? The best set ups are done away from the table where players befriend other players and rape them in other areas or life or borrow cash or ask to go partners. I'm done with the whole topic. I'll let you all go back to believing the fairy tales.

When Lefty was asked the question about poker he had this to say:

Q: If you were able to operate that table out there, one poker game all year round, how much money do you think you could make on just that one poker game?

Rosenthal: I CAN'T COUNT THAT HIGH!!

Q: Explain what you mean.

Rosenthal: The general public doesn't understand the strength of gambling, gaming, whether it be a poker table, a slot machine, black jack or craps. It just has such enormous potential, the number is sky high. Owning or having access to the majority of the profits of the poker table could become astronomical over the period of a year, 24 hours a day.

Q: Just one poker game?

Rosenthal: JUST ONE!!

The next question and answer is pretty good too lol!!

Q: What does that say to you?

Rosenthal: It's the only industry that I'm aware of in the world where the player really has virtually no chance, and the only industry in the world where the [pre-]requisite need not be knowledge competency; the only pre-requisite is the license. Again, you need not be a Rhodes scholar or rocket scientist to win on the right side [of] the counter--the right side of the counter being on the inside, and that's the key to success, and you have to admire the Wall Street and major corporations recognizing the potential, or the fact I should say rather than the potential of legalized gambling, and they recognize it, they bought the properties up, and they're just laughing all the way to the bank.

bahhhh Double Post

Thank you for the insight Monet. Very interesting.

Few days ago on a Strip Casino:

I was playing $50 UTH

I had Jx and board was AKQ66

Dealer had Tx and used a few seconds before he pushed my ante back and paid my raise. The pit boss was following the game and said: "You qualify" and i got paid on the ante as well.