D Day in Vegas
Quote: MrVI understand a lot of money can be made selling heroin.
That is. if you are willing to risk the potential downside; but hey, life's a gamble, isn't it?
Could be a good fit for a man on the make.
Well, if you are suggesting he become a criminal, why not just tell him to go rob Fort Knox.
Quote: Ibeatyouraceswhy not just tell him to go rob Fort Knox.
I think that was exactly what he thought he was going to be doing.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI want to reiterate... when I got back into card counting in '08, I was in the red for a month and a half. I was spreading $10-$80 and I didn't have the surrender option like he does. Not only that, I bet I put more hours into it as well at the time. A few months later, I had a 3 month streak where I didn't lose a single day. That is just how this venture goes.
I doubt you've put in more hours than me. I've also went 2-3 months losing all of my profit during these 850 hours. Around the 300-400 hour mark all of my 25k profit vanished within 3 months. Most counters would've quit by then, but I never gave up. 400 hours and in the red. Well the next 200-300 hours I made 30k and then eventually another 12k to bring me to my all time high of 42k. Now I'm down another 7k. Lile i said i know and have experiwnced the swings of the game, my frustration recently comes from the fact of the 'timing' of losing eight when i make a major move to vegas. Its unbelievable.
By the way, I'm also not even counting the hours in my other log before I started to play decent stakes. In my other log I made 2k red chipping in 150 hours. So I've put in 1000 hours since I started actually keeping a log. I would say another 100 hours when I was just getting into counting. So with all the logs, I've made around 36k. Pretty garbage, but I guess it could technically be worse according to the software.
Quote: ZenKinGI doubt you've put in more hours than me. I've also went 2-3 months losing all of my profit during these 850 hours. Around the 300-400 hour mark all of my 25k vanished within 3 months. Most counters would've quit by then, but I never gave up. 400 hours and in the red. Well the next 200-300 hours I made 30k and then eventually another 12k to bring me to my all time high. Now I'm down another 7k. I'm also not even counting the hours in my other log before I started to play decent stakes. In my other log I made 2k red chipping in 150 hours. So I've put in 1000 hours since I started actually keeping a log. I would say another 100 hours when I was just getting into counting.
How many hours do you put in per day? I was doing 10-16 per day 7 days a week. My point is, this happens. You'll get out of it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesHow many hours do you put in per day? I was doing 10-16 per day 7 days a week. My point is, this happens. You'll get out of it.
Yea I know it happens, I'm just frustrated at the 'timing' of it all. It just had to happen when I immediately arrive in vegas. Sickening. Im also a bit worried my bankroll wont recover in time or if i should start lowering my bet size. 2x250 might be a bit too much now with only 50.5k and living expenaes.
I wasn't playing 7 days a week during this stretch of 850 hours. Maybe 2-3 times a week and I was logging about 6-7 hour sessions so I would say roughly 15-20 hours a week. It took me about a year and a half tho to get in those hours so actually on average I probably played a bit less on a weekly basis.
10-16 a day? How many did you get in a year?I'm guessing you hammered long sessions at several places, similar to me, which led to backoffs, but I had no choice really because of the travel.
Quote: ZenKinGYea I know it happens, I'm just frustrated at the 'timing' of it all. It just had to happen when I immediately arrive in vegas. Sickening. I wasn't playing 7 days a week during this stretch of 850 hours. Maybe 2-3 times a week and I was logging about 6-7 hour sessions so I would say roughly 15-20 hours a week. It took me about a year and a half tho to get in those hours so actually on average I probably played a bit less on a weekly basis.
10-16 a day? How many did you get in a year?I'm guessing you hammered long sessions at several places, similar to me, which led to backoffs, but I had no choice really because of the travel.
I quit playing full time after about 7 months and moved to other plays. I was eventually flat bet thanks to an awkward insurance bet a few years later.
I put those hours in because I have kids to support. I was a little frustrated too but just kept going at it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI quit playing full time after about 7 months and moved to other plays. I was eventually flat bet thanks to an awkward insurance bet a few years later.
I put those hours in because I have kids to support. I was a little frustrated too but just kept going at it.
So you put in about the same amount as me albeit a bit less. Its good to actually talk to someone who's put in the hours. Not many counter grinders out there anymore and there's good reason for it. It's tough work and not a good efficient use of time.
Also to the guy, I think it was beachbumbabs, no I never thought it was easy and I knew all the documentaries and movies were pure fluff, a little common sense will tell you that, but I sure as hell expected much more than 35k and I did expect to hit my EV after 850 hours on my current log. That's the frustrating part. I don't think I will ever get close to EV at this rate.
There's also a lot of misapplied information as well. Everyone talks about ROR but no one ever talks about the ROR of a portion of your bankroll. Who cares if my ROR is 0.5% when I have a 25% chance of losing 10k and then having to resize my bets. Most people never think of that early on and then when they hit a horrible swing, they either resize down and make a lower hourly wage or start playing with a higher ROR. Some won't even know they have to resize either and will just keep playing thinking they're 'due' to win.
Granted, I was overestimating my rounds per hour and in my opinion, these BJ authors, software creators, and even BJ apprenticeship and other sites do a disservice to everyone by telling people to use the 'industry standard 100 rounds per hour' and I think I know why they do it. By telling everyone to use the 100 rounds an hour figure, it boosts the win rate tremendously and gets these wannabe future counters to think 'oh wow, 70-80 bucks an hour!!, this is awesome, let me buy their product and books' when in fact they'll likely make 30-40 bucks an hour. I'm willing to bet, very few get in those types of rounds per hour, and they throw in the 100 RDS figure for back counting and playing off the top into the same group, which is riduclous. If youre backcounting, you will never average 100 rounds an hour.
Being a full time AP has to be very stressful, given the fact you rely on profit to survive, and the swings can be great.
Seems to me a good way to provide financial security and be an AP would be to have a job, either full time or part time, and gamble on your time off.
Sure, having a girlfried, wife and kids would impact that, but for a person without baggage that would seem ideal: lots of hours playing, yet a reliable income.
Quote: PokerGrinderLet me just say this: never try and become a poker pro. You sir are what we call a tiltmonkey. You don't have the mindset for poker whatsoever. The game would eat you alive.
Might make for great tv. Just ask Hellmuth.
Quote: PokerGrinderLet me just say this: never try and become a poker pro. You sir are what we call a tiltmonkey. You don't have the mindset for poker whatsoever. The game would eat you alive.
Don't confuse real tilting and vocal tilting. Not once have I ever bet into a negative count with a major bet or anything. I'm proud to say even with my ridiculous comments to dealers and pits, I have never lost discipline with how I bet and play. I never tilted with my bets and overbet at a disadvantage to 'make it back' nor have I overbet my bankroll to 'make it back'. You have no idea how good or not good I will be at poker if i so choose it, probably wont, but if i ever do. I'm a very disciplined AP, I just lose control with the stuff I say and act. I think Hellmuth is a good comparison to me and he's an 11 time bracelet winner I believe. Not everyone holds in frustration the same way and not all winners are alike.
Quote: ZenKingI doubt you've put in more hours than me...
I doubt you're smarter than him. I doubt you're a better counter than him. I doubt your car is as good as his. I doubt you're as good looking as him. I doubt you're humbler than him.
Vegas can't be beaten; it has just never been definitively proven until now.
Quote: CalderI doubt you're smarter than him. I doubt you're a better counter than him. I doubt your car is as good as his. I doubt you're as good looking as him. I doubt you're humbler than him.
Vegas can't be beaten; it has just never been definitively proven until now.
I'm one ugly motha #&@!$ warning, vulgar language...
https://youtu.be/VcgRaf38uCQ
Quote: AxelWolfIMO. We need to put to rest the question if ZK is a real person who has made his way to Vegas. I lean towards the yes on this one, however a lot of people I respect are very skeptical. I need to take that into account.
I'll PM ZK and Monet aftet the weekend and try to set somthing up so we can get that aspect out of the way.
Weather or not he plays the limits and game's with the skills he's claiming is another issue all together.
I'll shoot for Tuesday evening.
Do either of you two guys have any prior commitments? I'll keep the place and time private. I just want it on record an honest attempt was made to meet up.
Sounds good to me, let me know. Hilarious how people think im some type of fake troll. Yea i say some crazy things, but i guess it just shows my inexperience, or maybe i had too high of expectations, but to be fair i am underperforming, so of course there's that, but i should've considered that ahead of time that you wont always hit EV even after 800 hours. Regarding me being some fake AP troll, that would be pretty sad if i just sat at home bumping up threads with a fake AP life. That would be down right depressing and the funny thing is, im sure there are people who do that.
Quote: PokerGrinderLet me just say this: never try and become a poker pro. You sir are what we call a tiltmonkey. You don't have the mindset for poker whatsoever. The game would eat you alive.
Best guy at the table. 😜
Quote: QFITIsn't there a rule against outing me?
I'm guessing, like all of us, you fall somewhere between Gandhi and the orang. Yet you identify with both. Nice to see you have a sense of humor.
I also appreciate all the contributions you've made over the past month or so. Fwiw, a belated welcome to the forum. :-)
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm guessing, like all of us, you fall somewhere between Gandhi and the orang. Yet you identify with both. Nice to see you have a sense of humor.
I also appreciate all the contributions you've made over the past month or so. Fwiw, a belated welcome to the forum. :-)
"Orang"? What is that slang for oranguatane? You can't just call him an orangutan!
Quote: RS"Orang"? What is that slang for oranguatane? You can't just call him an orangutan!
SPOILER ALERT
Tomorrow's NYTimes Sunday crossword puzzle, 8-down, the clue will be: "Chimpanzee variety". The answer is Bonobo.
is suck up an insult?Quote: beachbumbabsI'm guessing, like all of us, you fall somewhere between Gandhi and the orang. Yet you identify with both. Nice to see you have a sense of humor.
I also appreciate all the contributions you've made over the past month or so. Fwiw, a belated welcome to the forum. :-)
Quote: AxelWolfis suck up an insult?
More of a mischaracturization of my intent. But thanks for playing.
Reason, I dont want to bet with someone who seldom posted. And with a "Not so real" character to show up.
Down 7200 and bankroll just keeps falling apart.
Quote: ZenKinGI think it's time to pass out flyers on the strip for 14 an hour to supplement my bankroll. They pay cash daily as well. This is what it's come to.
Down 7200 and bankroll just keeps falling apart.
A porn slapper is born.
But seriously, you came to Las Vegas to give it your best shot.
Suck up the losses and power on through.
Ah, variance: such a cruel mistress.
Quote: ZenKinGI think it's time to pass out flyers on the strip for 14 an hour to supplement my bankroll. They pay cash daily as well. This is what it's come to.
Down 7200 and bankroll just keeps falling apart.
You are so far from that. There is not much hope for you if that is your belief. BTW, you need to learn some other things besides BJ. You really seem more fit for a government JOB. Maybe it was too much time spent with mommy. I don't know, but really, get over it or you are going to consume yourself.
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
☻☻☻Quote: beachbumbabsMore of a mischaracturization of my intent. But thanks for playing.
I have sent out an invitation to ZK and M412(nothing fancy). I have wanted to officially meet M412 for some time now. I would also like to meet ZK. I can try my best confirm he's real. So figured I can kill 2 birds with one stone. If someone doesn't make it I will have had the luxury of meeting the other person.Quote: speedycrapI hope Axel can verify that on Tuesday but I can only hope.
Quote: speedycrapI put up a line for Zen to not showing up in Vegas. Someone PM me for the bet of $100. I did not reply and planned to let it die.
Reason, I dont want to bet with someone who seldom posted. And with a "Not so real" character to show up.
Quote: speedycrapI hope Axel can verify that on Tuesday but I can only hope.
A simple response of any sort would have sufficed. Instead, the bet you offered only comes across as shady to me now. I don't meet many members here but I indeed have. Whatever, it's only $150 you would have lost. Not a big deal but I'm sure you can understand how I would feel a bit burned or at the very least completely ignored.
Edit: Thanks for at least responding now though.
Looks like I didn't really read this in it's entirety. I guess you were talking about Mooseton as someone who seldom posted. The quantity of posts or lack thereof shouldn't really be considered in many cases, we are not talking about some guy with 2 posts that just signed up yesterday. My bets are usually only offered to known members. Sometimes I forget to say that, but if I had any concerns, I would just come out and say, I don't know you well enough, so I have to decline making a bet with you, unless want to put up the money first.Quote: speedycrapI put up a line for Zen to not showing up in Vegas. Someone PM me for the bet of $100. I did not reply and planned to let it die.
Reason, I dont want to bet with someone who seldom posted. And with a "Not so real" character to show up.
Some people don't have a whole hell of a lot to say all the time(nothing wrong with that). Mooseton has been around since 2010 and has hundreds of posts. I can't recall if he has made any bets on here, but I think he may have, regardless of that, I have met Mooseton and done a few things with him, I have zero reason to think he would stiff anyone, it would be just the opposite of that.
I kinda see his point as to why he was miffed. Perhaps next time just ask around if you are unsure. Look at it from his point of view, he might think you were waiting to gather more information before accepting or declining the bet.
I wouldn't necessarily fault anyone for making a bet offer and then reconsidering it, as log as they were upfront with it and not trying to make some kind of a move.
Quote: speedycrapsorry about the confusion/mis-understanding. whenever I am in town in the future, lunch will be on me.
Don't worry about it, it's cool. Let's just get this thread back on track.
ZK, variance is a fickle thing. I've had almost 2 6 month break-even, no-income spells in the past 2 years. That was not easy for me or my family to put it mildly. But thank goodness I'm actually at about expectation now. I may not count cards but it still applies. Take it in stride.
I made an attempt but I'm not going to go out of my way and have some complex back and forth just for a simple meet up.
Quote: AxelWolfFYI I have been communicating with ZK and M14 about meeting up tomorrow(this has nothing to do with the 4Q dinner). All seemed like it was a go, but ZK didn't seem to like the place me and M14 agreed on( It was not a casino.) Perhaps he feels safer at a casino. I gave him the second choice at a casino and a time. The ball is in his court now. It should be very simple.
I made an attempt but I'm not going to go out of my way and have some complex back and forth just for a simple meet up.
Well... I thought my idea/place was simple and would give us something to do to make time pass while talking. I am pretty much open to any other ideas at this point to just put it to an end. ZK can name the time and place tomorrow of his choice and I'll agree. If he really wants dinner I can do that too. I just didn't want to get stuck in a dinner for a long period of time since I'm not the most relaxed person and not always good at small talk. Especially meeting people that don't know how I am. However, to not stress these two guys out at all I'll just agree to what ZK wants to do to make things go smoother. I have plenty of comp downtown so if you want to eat or have cigars or drinks I can take care of that very easily.
Quote: billryanmeet at Insert Coins. If Zenboy is half as good as he claims, he can earn a nice living hustling tourists at the video games.
I dunno... I've been hooked on video games for 37+ years. i have about 80 in comp at CC and gonna pump it up to take Billryan cause he needs to experience eating 21 day old dry aged beef while looking at paintings of steer on the wall!
Never ate at the one here, but the real one in NY was pretty damned good.
Quote: billryanSpeaking of Steakhouses, Smith and Wolansky on the Strip is having a bankruptcy auction this week. Google it if interested. Everything must go.
Never ate at the one here, but the real one in NY was pretty damned good.
Not easy to compete with all the great restaurants inside Casinos where you eat for your play. I am surprised Lawrys prime Rib is still open. Great food and service but I've had just as good or better using my comp so why pay cash?
Quote: billryanSpeaking of Steakhouses, Smith and Wolansky on the Strip is having a bankruptcy auction this week. Google it if interested. Everything must go.
Never ate at the one here, but the real one in NY was pretty damned good.
That's sad news. They're not just good, they're known for it. I wonder what went wrong?
Now back on track for the thread. No derail intended.
ZK,
Make the meet, guy. It will be worth it. Both these guys are fine, not looking to cause you trouble, and will likely be of great help. If you don't make it for ANY reason at this point, your credibility will be less than zero.
So how 'bout Rosslyn’s Oakhill Office Building, parking space 32D.Quote: AxelWolfI gave him the second choice at a casino and a time. The ball is in his court now. It should be very simple.
Quote: monet0412I dunno... I've been hooked on video games for 37+ years. i have about 80 in comp at CC and gonna pump it up to take Billryan cause he needs to experience eating 21 day old dry aged beef while looking at paintings of steer on the wall!
I'll happily cover the tip!!!!!
Quote: ZenKinGAlright its set, see you both tmrw at the place we agreed on. Sorry for the late response, I was playing today and I'm happy to report FINALLY good news. Made +3,650. I also got cheated by an old dealer at red rock(don't care about naming the place, was there less than an hour and wasn't a big bet to be remembered) where he saw me spread to two hands at +1 and purposely misdealed and I end up with a 19v10. I decide to play it only for him to have a backdoor BJ. I left after a couple more hands, not gonna waste my time with cheating cons. I saw his eyes right before the round started and he looked at both my bets and then claimed he didn't see it. Further proof that he knew I spread to two hands is he dealt to my other spot which I wasn't even playing beforehand.
OMFG. Now the dealers are in on it. I guess people can't just make honest mistakes. Or they just can't be lazy and bad at their job.
Quote: GWAEOMFG. Now the dealers are in on it. I guess people can't just make honest mistakes. Or they just can't be lazy and bad at their job.
It was just very suspicious. I saw the dealer's eyes when i spread to two hands. He saw my two bets and then coincidentally 'mistakenly' misdeals once he sees me go from 1x25 to 2x50. Had I not seen him looking down at the felt at my two bets, i wouldve thought it was an honest mistake. He also had just come back from break and he must have saw the pile of chips in front of me and knew that didnt happen with me betting 1x25 and that i was up to something and that i only bought in for 200. I know when it's an honest mistake and that wasn't honest. He didnt even deal to the previous one spot i was playing, he dealt to the other spot; if he really was mistaken why would he deal to the other spot and not my previous same one spot i was playing the whole time? It's alright, never playing with that guy again.
Also the whole policy of "We can't back up the cards" is the most ridiculous bs ever. The cards are all in front of you just place them where they're supposed to be. I've gotten screwed in the past because of that policy where my Aces were steered away form me through a misdeal. I know other players who have been 'misdealt' too and they thought it wasn't honest because it happened everytime they would get an ace on one hand. Im pretty sure some dealers in small joints are told by the pit to purposefully misdeal if they sense a 'counter' spreading their bets whether horizontally or vertically. They do give you the option to stay in the hand and is basically a free +ev play, but the whole policy is ridiculous and kills your EV from your second hand if you were to get a 9,10, or Ace so it's basically a wash, which is what happened today.
