D Day in Vegas

Quote: AxelWolf

I normally don't do this for just anyone, however, I will make an exception for ZK.

For only a measly $1000 I will remove his cure for him. A small price to pay for any AP.
I may make a few other exceptions, but you must hurry, this offer won't last long.

To think the Cubs had to spend $120M in payroll to end the curse of some damn goat.

ZK, this is the best offer you are going to get. I would take him up on it and I'll bet he will throw in a Key Largo casino Fun Book if you ask nicely.

Quote: AxelWolf

I normally don't do this for just anyone, however, I will make an exception for ZK.

For only a measly $1000 I will remove his curse for him. A small price to pay for any AP.
I may make a few other exceptions, but you must hurry, this offer won't last long.

I'll better that offer.
For a measly $750 I will not only remove his curse, but I will invoke a blessing such that he is up, from where he is now, by $2000 or more by the end of July. It will fully neutralise his curse. GUARANTEED.

I'll offer a no win no fee deal: If he isn't up by the ascribed $2,000, he doesn't have to pay me one cent.
I'm prepared to offer even better blessings, where rates are negotiable.

However, to encourage ZK to take up my offer, I'm going to invoke a neutral blessing, such that ZK can do no better in July than he did in June. Sorry ZK, business is business.

* It's a limited time, rolling 30 day deal. Get in quick ZK.
* Bonus offer. At the end of a second month's service, the current curse will be left in a state of 'cancelled' even if he no longer subscribes to my service.

Payment by paypal please or by escrow via Wizard ( If that's ok with you Wizard. 10% to non-religious charity of Wizard's choosing in this case)

OK. The above is generally speaking a humourous dig at the whole 'curse' sub-topic. I doubt ZK is stupid enough to take my offer or Foxy's. Let's drop the whole curse crap.

Bad luck happens when it chooses to. That ZK happens to have staked his lifestyle and current fortune on it might make its timing a tad inconvenient. C'est la vie.

Quote: OnceDear

I'll better that offer.
For a measly $750 I will not only remove his curse, but I will invoke a blessing such that he is up, from where he is now, by $2000 or more by the end of July. It will fully neutralise his curse. GUARANTEED.

I'll offer a no win no fee deal: If he isn't up by the ascribed $2,000, he doesn't have to pay me one cent.
I'm prepared to offer even better blessings, where rates are negotiable.

However, to encourage ZK to take up my offer, I'm going to invoke a neutral blessing, such that ZK can do no better in July than he did in June. Sorry ZK, business is business.

* It's a limited time, rolling 30 day deal. Get in quick ZK.
* Bonus offer. At the end of a second month's service, the current curse will be left in a state of 'cancelled' even if he no longer subscribes to my service.

Payment by paypal please or by escrow via Wizard ( If that's ok with you Wizard. 10% to non-religious charity of Wizard's choosing in this case)

OK. The above is generally speaking a humourous dig at the whole 'curse' sub-topic. I doubt ZK is stupid enough to take my offer or Foxy's. Let's drop the whole curse crap.

Bad luck happens when it chooses to. That ZK happens to have staked his lifestyle and current fortune on it might make its timing a tad inconvenient. C'est la vie.

What, are you going to fly into Vegas? Everyone knows online curse breaking is a hoax, it has to be done in person to work.

Too bad Alan doesn't post here anymore, I'd suggest ZK talk to him about this curse thing of his.

Alan relayed several times that a craps table at Caesars was "cursed."

Like minds, birds of a feather, and all that.

Quote: AxelWolf

What, are you going to fly into Vegas? Everyone knows online curse breaking is a hoax, it has to be done in person to work.

Pah! Shows what you know about my business model. I have fulfillment centers in 50 nations, from where blessing can be delivered next day. I've one fulfillment center just off the strip in Vegas which offers 1 hour delivery. I also make use of click and collect and Amazon Prime and many similar services. It's a digital age matey. I can also officiate at weddings and funerals thanks to that guy on the internet.

Quote: MrV

Too bad Alan doesn't post here anymore, I'd suggest ZK talk to him about this curse thing of his.

Alan relayed several times that a craps table at Caesars was "cursed."...

Because he wasn't betting the yo....

ZenKing is a decent person in real life based on first impressions. I think the forum will see a change as he lets more of his real self show. Maybe he made a few mistakes venting in the manner that he did. I think he is looking forward to pursuing other avenues. Whatever he chooses to do it sures seems that he would be capable of success.

before you guys can claim to lift curses, we need to see some credentials. I mean, have any of you even sent away the coupon on the back of the comic book?????

Quote: ontariodealer

before you guys can claim to lift curses, we need to see some credentials. I mean, have any of you even sent away the coupon on the back of the comic book?????

Here is mine.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/images/slots/hexbreaker7-med.jpg

I did a quick search on Amazon and found that they sell SPELLS.

see: 1001 Spells

*flips through pages of book*

OK, now where's the spell to make every roll and every spin a winner?

For all wondering Axel (or someone) blew dinner reservations so we shot pool and hung out... though a shoe and 6 decks WERE brought. Here were my thoughts/highlights:

1) ZK is pretty much what I expected. A normal guy but a bit younger/brash in his statistics thinking. Again - it would be literally impossible to tell if he was getting cheated or just losing at this point. If they removed a few big cards you couldn't tell that to your bottom line for a while. If they removed a ton of big cards every single count would end high.

2) Probably most important... Axel lost 3 bets to me in pool, which I'm "average" in at best. It was a good thing I ZK was on my team as him and Axel seemed to be the best 2 in the room (at least just from who played and what I saw).

3) They wanted to test ZK, but then thought it would be clever to remove two "high valued" cards. I opted to have them not do anything 'funny' with the deck other than perhaps set up a positive count by throwing little cards after the cut. You learn a lot more about someones counting abilities in large counts rather than little counts (bet sizing, deviations, conversions, etc, etc).

4) While it wasn't the pretties setup, and we were 'kind of' trying to distract him... We did successfully distract ZK I believe. The first 2 decks that came out were Hi/Low RC -6 (TC -1.5) and ZK (using wong halves) had a 0 count... I wouldn't think the two counts should be that far off from True Count so I'd be fairly confident a mistake or two were made. Again, we were all chatting, dealing sloppy, etc, etc, but still this appeared to be a mistake in the first 2 decks of this "silly" test.

5) The bigger issue (in my opinion) was that ZK didn't seem like he could hold a convo with me without staring at the cards and/or losing track of our conversation. I have no doubts he plays a FLAWLESS game on his computer or siting quietly at a table, but this is a level of precision that every single professional counter should have. You want to overkill your skill... Counting should be like breathing, which means you should be able to hold a conversation, look away from the table, and still have no issues at all. I asked how he trained and he said with the software, but not with any distractions such as movies, talking to other people, slot machine noises, etc, etc. The other thing I don't like about software training is your mind isn't split. When you're dealing and shuffling, etc, then your mind has to at some level concentrate on something else which in my opinion makes it harder and better training.

6) I'm mad I didn't get a chance to play with ZK. I think it would have been both fun and profitable, but alas other events pulled me away during our only open window. Hopefully next time I'm in town he'll be up for playing together, or at least a bit more of a proper diagnostics/opinion of his counting. I really wanted to give him a fresh pair of eyes to help him out, but the "test" ended up kind of being more of a sh*t show than anything.

7) How in the hell did we pay $78 for pizza ($30 from me and my 2 teammates alone) and I didn't even get one slice of pizza I could eat (after requesting "no onions, mushrooms, or olives" before the order). For almost $80 we should have been able to get 4 pizzas and other subs/etc that other people ordered. #NeverLetAxelOrderAgain

All in all fun to meet up with everyone as always... Just gotta avoid the Axel hustling (as always).

Quote: Romes

For all wondering Axel (or someone) blew dinner reservations so we shot pool and hung out... though a shoe and 6 decks WERE brought. Here were my thoughts/highlights:

1) ZK is pretty much what I expected. A normal guy but a bit younger/brash in his statistics thinking. Again - it would be literally impossible to tell if he was getting cheated or just losing at this point. If they removed a few big cards you couldn't tell that to your bottom line for a while. If they removed a ton of big cards every single count would end high.

2) Probably most important... Axel lost 3 bets to me in pool, which I'm "average" in at best. It was a good thing I ZK was on my team as him and Axel seemed to be the best 2 in the room (at least just from who played and what I saw).

3) They wanted to test ZK, but then thought it would be clever to remove two "high valued" cards. I opted to have them not do anything 'funny' with the deck other than perhaps set up a positive count by throwing little cards after the cut. You learn a lot more about someones counting abilities in large counts rather than little counts (bet sizing, deviations, conversions, etc, etc).

4) While it wasn't the pretties setup, and we were 'kind of' trying to distract him... We did successfully distract ZK I believe. The first 2 decks that came out were Hi/Low RC -6 (TC -1.5) and ZK (using wong halves) had a 0 count... I wouldn't think the two counts should be that far off from True Count so I'd be fairly confident a mistake or two were made. Again, we were all chatting, dealing sloppy, etc, etc, but still this appeared to be a mistake in the first 2 decks of this "silly" test.

5) The bigger issue (in my opinion) was that ZK didn't seem like he could hold a convo with me without staring at the cards and/or losing track of our conversation. I have no doubts he plays a FLAWLESS game on his computer or siting quietly at a table, but this is a level of precision that every single professional counter should have. You want to overkill your skill... Counting should be like breathing, which means you should be able to hold a conversation, look away from the table, and still have no issues at all. I asked how he trained and he said with the software, but not with any distractions such as movies, talking to other people, slot machine noises, etc, etc. The other thing I don't like about software training is your mind isn't split. When you're dealing and shuffling, etc, then your mind has to at some level concentrate on something else which in my opinion makes it harder and better training.

6) I'm mad I didn't get a chance to play with ZK. I think it would have been both fun and profitable, but alas other events pulled me away during our only open window. Hopefully next time I'm in town he'll be up for playing together, or at least a bit more of a proper diagnostics/opinion of his counting. I really wanted to give him a fresh pair of eyes to help him out, but the "test" ended up kind of being more of a sh*t show than anything.

7) How in the hell did we pay $78 for pizza ($30 from me and my 2 teammates alone) and I didn't even get one slice of pizza I could eat (after requesting "no onions, mushrooms, or olives" before the order). For almost $80 we should have been able to get 4 pizzas and other subs/etc that other people ordered. #NeverLetAxelOrderAgain

All in all fun to meet up with everyone as always... Just gotta avoid the Axel hustling (as always).

Well to my defense, i wasnt expecting distractions, i thought it was just going to be a straight up test. Also the talking caused me to look away from the table at one point with me nearly missing up the picked cards which was probably where one card was missed and was due more to me literally missing the card rather than not being able to multitask. With that being said, i did correctly call out the last card by saying it was either a 3,4, or 6 and the card was a 3(+1).

Lastly ive compared both hilo amd halves before on Casino Verite and had the software run hilo while i used halves and having a RC difference of 6 between them at some poiny is not unheard of and you can test it yourself as well to see its true, it happens, and there was probably a surplus of 5s or 7s. Regardless i know my game is sound and solid and like you said it was a pretty sloppy test. Im probably not perfect with having a conversation while playing, but it was magnified during the test because i didnt expect it and kinda caught me off guard especially when you were asking me what the TC was and there was 2 or 3 piles of cards rather than an actual pile of cards the normal way in a casino. Ive had conversations with dealers or pit bosses before while playing and never felt uneasy about the accuracy of my count. Im probably not perfect at it but solid nonetheless.

Quote: Romes

2) Probably most important... Axel lost 3 bets to me in pool, which I'm "average" in at best. It was a good thing I ZK was on my team as him and Axel seemed to be the best 2 in the room (at least just from who played and what I saw).

All in all fun to meet up with everyone as always... Just gotta avoid the Axel hustling (as always).

Somehow I managed to win against Axel's girlfriend despite literally shooting the balls off the table and pocketing at least 3 of her numbers. I thought I was getting hustled too until they didn't offer action on a second game ;)

Quote: Romes

7) How in the hell did we pay $78 for pizza ($30 from me and my 2 teammates alone) and I didn't even get one slice of pizza I could eat (after requesting "no onions, mushrooms, or olives" before the order). For almost $80 we should have been able to get 4 pizzas and other subs/etc that other people ordered. #NeverLetAxelOrderAgain

Let the record show I ordered a Gyro and put in $10

>Playing it correctly means you've already won.

I said that to the boxman, he was not amused. They seldom are.

You got rooked on Pizza? Your host must be a natural born casino owner.

I've been to three events with Axel. Everyone bashes his lack of leadership, yet everyone follows his lead.
He decided to play pool, we followed. He decided to order pizza, we followed. He did the ordering. I chipped in $11. , so we are at $51.
Do you really want to go all Captain Queeg and try to find out who ate the strawberries?
I didn't play any pool. Who paid for the table for the hours we were there?
I had a good time. hopefully everyone else did. At least the curse isn't contagious, from all accounts.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you all got hustled but axel. You were expecting him to hustle you on pool, all the time he was ordering pizza at a +25% EV. Good job axel.

Quote: billryan

Do you really want to go all Captain Queeg and try to find out who ate the strawberries?

Oh my intent was not to ask who paid what nor figure anything out... Just to point out never to let Axel order the pizza because it'll come with onions, mushrooms, olives, and pineapple (I'm actually okay with this one at least).

Quote: ZenKinG

Well to my defense, i wasnt expecting distractions, i thought it was just going to be a straight up test.

If you EVER tested out for ANYONES team distractions are going to be part of a "straight up test." You can bet your bankroll on it... No joke, if I were to test you out to be on a team with me, the test actually would have had cleaner dealing, but definitely more distractions. That's why everyone says to practice with slot noises, while trying to watch a show/movie, while talking to someone, and while dealing the cards. Once you can master doing that, no situation (even our sloppy test) would have phased you.

Quote: ZenKinG

With that being said, i did correctly call out the last card by saying it was either a 3,4, or 6 and the card was a 3(+1).

Yeah, but isn't that just luck given you didn't know 2 of the other cards were removed? Even by calling "3, 4, or 7" as you did that should give you a 23% chance of being right in the dark (3/13). =P

Quote: ZenKinG

Lastly ive compared both hilo amd halves before on Casino Verite and had the software run hilo while i used halves and having a RC difference of 6 between them at some poiny is not unheard of...

Just from your wording it tells me it's not unheard of, but quite unlikely =).

Quote: ZenKinG

Im probably not perfect at it but solid nonetheless.

Thank you ZK. THIS is all anyone has ever wanted to hear. NO ONE is perfect at counting all the time. You've got to budget this in somehow by not assuming you're playing with the maximum advantage % you're theoretically supposed to get. This is why most averages for counters are 1% when theoretically you could get up to 2% as your average advantage. I'd suggest redoing your numbers with an average advantage of 1%. We all overestimate... Alas, still looking forward to playing with you if you're up for it next time!

Quote: Romes

Oh my intent was not to ask who paid what nor figure anything out... Just to point out never to let Axel order the pizza because it'll come with onions, mushrooms, olives, and pineapple (I'm actually okay with this one at least).

If you EVER tested out for ANYONES team distractions are going to be part of a "straight up test." You can bet your bankroll on it... No joke, if I were to test you out to be on a team with me, the test actually would have had cleaner dealing, but definitely more distractions. That's why everyone says to practice with slot noises, while trying to watch a show/movie, while talking to someone, and while dealing the cards. Once you can master doing that, no situation (even our sloppy test) would have phased you.

Yeah, but isn't that just luck given you didn't know 2 of the other cards were removed? Even by calling "3, 4, or 7" as you did that should give you a 23% chance of being right in the dark (3/13). =P

Just from your wording it tells me it's not unheard of, but quite unlikely =).

Thank you ZK. THIS is all anyone has ever wanted to hear. NO ONE is perfect at counting all the time. You've got to budget this in somehow by not assuming you're playing with the maximum advantage % you're theoretically supposed to get. This is why most averages for counters are 1% when theoretically you could get up to 2% as your average advantage. I'd suggest redoing your numbers with an average advantage of 1%. We all overestimate... Alas, still looking forward to playing with you if you're up for it next time!

Well dont take my responses out of context, i still think im playing perfect at the tables and around a 1.5% edge. The reason i say that is because i dont engage much conversation at the table and just play my game. This doesnt mean im always staring at the cards either like you alluded to as well. Just because I dont talk much at the table doesnt mean im always staring at the cards. This goes for backcounting as well. I rarely stare at the cards.

Beaides distractions arent a huge problem for me, casino noise waitresses asking me for drinks etc never affects me, i just wasnt ready or 'expected' someome to talk to me so it kinda threw me off for a bit but not because i cant do it, especially when i see the discards are not even in one pile. But all of this is really irrelevant because heat is not an issue to me betting currently only 2x200 so i dont even have to talk to anyone including dealer or pit boss at the table even though i can.

My biggest thing now is im almost 'scared' to even play so i dont even log hours as pathetic as that sounds, but if i keep losing and the math never corrects itself, im not sure what ill do and i cant return home and be labeled a failure either. Im looking at other AP plays now as well in case.

2nd time you mentioned the discards but didn't mention the CLEAR shoe that you could visibly just see how many decks were left =). Also, I said I bet you play great at the computer and at the tables when you're not talking to anyone. I just mentioned that having the skill to deal with the kind of distractions we threw at you should be expected of someone at your level. Was not trying to offend, only report accurately with my opinions.

You should keep grinding out the hours, but if you're worried as others have said you should get a dealer job. You know the game better than all of them and it could even be good practice as well as a good experience for you to learn more about the industry. Get a job at one of the places you think is cheating the most, then see for yourself if they are or are not cheating. This way you'll have more income to help pay the bills, get more hands and move towards the math correcting itself in the long run (which it always does), and you'll have peace of mind about the casinos. Sounds like a triple win?

Quote: Romes

2nd time you mentioned the discards but didn't mention the CLEAR shoe that you could visibly just see how many decks were left =). Also, I said I bet you play great at the computer and at the tables when you're not talking to anyone. I just mentioned that having the skill to deal with the kind of distractions we threw at you should be expected of someone at your level. Was not trying to offend, only report accurately with my opinions.

You should keep grinding out the hours, but if you're worried as others have said you should get a dealer job. You know the game better than all of them and it could even be good practice as well as a good experience for you to learn more about the industry. Get a job at one of the places you think is cheating the most, then see for yourself if they are or are not cheating. This way you'll have more income to help pay the bills, get more hands and move towards the math correcting itself in the long run (which it always does), and you'll have peace of mind about the casinos. Sounds like a triple win?

Problem is, dealers never see the cards, they are just drones and are told what to do with the preshuffled cards. Cards come preshuffled so even if they got to see them it's impossible to know if everything is in there. It all comes down to the shufflemaster machine which SUPPOSEDLY can track each card by denomination and tell you which card is exactly missing and how many total cards are missing.

Quote: ZenKinG

Problem is, dealers never see the cards, they are just drones and are told what to do with the preshuffled cards. Cards come preshuffled so even if they got to see them it's impossible to know if everything is in there. It all comes down to the shufflemaster machine which SUPPOSEDLY can track each card by denomination and tell you which card is exactly missing and how many total cards are missing.

You telling me you couldn't cut thin (maybe 1 deck) then when pulling the rest out spread them and count them in < 20 seconds to confirm they're all there? Or that with your new access to restricted areas and casino personnel that you couldn't ask around and find out more information? Dealer job sounds like a triple win for you... or more (learn what pits look for, etc, etc).

If you get a job as a dealer and 900 shoes out of 1,000 are bad, you might be on to something. You don't need to see the cards in the shoe. Count the cards coming out of the shoe.

Quote: Romes

You telling me you couldn't cut thin (maybe 1 deck) then when pulling the rest out spread them and count them in < 20 seconds to confirm they're all there? Or that with your new access to restricted areas and casino personnel that you couldn't ask around and find out more information? Dealer job sounds like a triple win for you... or more (learn what pits look for, etc, etc).

Thats true, but from what ive seen dealers are instructed to only check the back of the preshuffled cards for any marks and then throw them in the shuffle machine. I cant evem remwmber now if i saw a dealer spread them fave up or if it was because i asked them to do it. Im sure the pit boss imstructs them to not put it face up.

Quote: billryan

If you get a job as a dealer and 900 shoes out of 1,000 are bad, you might be on to something. You don't need to see the cards in the shoe. Count the cards coming out of the shoe.

Thats true too i guess, didnt think of that. But it would take huge discrespancies in the count at the end of each shoe for 900 of them to be sure and that likely wouldnt happen.

Quote: Romes

For all wondering Axel (or someone) blew dinner reservations so we shot pool and hung out... though a shoe and 6 decks WERE brought. Here were my thoughts/highlights:

1) ZK is pretty much what I expected. A normal guy but a bit younger/brash in his statistics thinking. Again - it would be literally impossible to tell if he was getting cheated or just losing at this point. If they removed a few big cards you couldn't tell that to your bottom line for a while. If they removed a ton of big cards every single count would end high.

2) Probably most important... Axel lost 3 bets to me in pool, which I'm "average" in at best. It was a good thing I ZK was on my team as him and Axel seemed to be the best 2 in the room (at least just from who played and what I saw).

3) They wanted to test ZK, but then thought it would be clever to remove two "high valued" cards. I opted to have them not do anything 'funny' with the deck other than perhaps set up a positive count by throwing little cards after the cut. You learn a lot more about someones counting abilities in large counts rather than little counts (bet sizing, deviations, conversions, etc, etc).

4) While it wasn't the pretties setup, and we were 'kind of' trying to distract him... We did successfully distract ZK I believe. The first 2 decks that came out were Hi/Low RC -6 (TC -1.5) and ZK (using wong halves) had a 0 count... I wouldn't think the two counts should be that far off from True Count so I'd be fairly confident a mistake or two were made. Again, we were all chatting, dealing sloppy, etc, etc, but still this appeared to be a mistake in the first 2 decks of this "silly" test.

5) The bigger issue (in my opinion) was that ZK didn't seem like he could hold a convo with me without staring at the cards and/or losing track of our conversation. I have no doubts he plays a FLAWLESS game on his computer or siting quietly at a table, but this is a level of precision that every single professional counter should have. You want to overkill your skill... Counting should be like breathing, which means you should be able to hold a conversation, look away from the table, and still have no issues at all. I asked how he trained and he said with the software, but not with any distractions such as movies, talking to other people, slot machine noises, etc, etc. The other thing I don't like about software training is your mind isn't split. When you're dealing and shuffling, etc, then your mind has to at some level concentrate on something else which in my opinion makes it harder and better training.

6) I'm mad I didn't get a chance to play with ZK. I think it would have been both fun and profitable, but alas other events pulled me away during our only open window. Hopefully next time I'm in town he'll be up for playing together, or at least a bit more of a proper diagnostics/opinion of his counting. I really wanted to give him a fresh pair of eyes to help him out, but the "test" ended up kind of being more of a sh*t show than anything.

7) How in the hell did we pay $78 for pizza ($30 from me and my 2 teammates alone) and I didn't even get one slice of pizza I could eat (after requesting "no onions, mushrooms, or olives" before the order). For almost $80 we should have been able to get 4 pizzas and other subs/etc that other people ordered. #NeverLetAxelOrderAgain

All in all, fun to meet up with everyone as always... Just gotta avoid the Axel hustling (as always).

I didn't blow dinner reservations (we won't talk about some of the things you have blown) I just didn't make any. Someone prior asked me if I made any. I said, I didn't but feel free to call(probably too late by then anyways)The place didn't open till 5:30. I have been there a few times prior without reservations and didn't have to wait long. IIRC they said it would only be an hour, seemed like a good chance to get a few drinks, shoot some pool and do the BJ thing, but we never got the call. Sh*it happens. IMO it gave us more time to have fun.

It seemed as if a few people were famished and someone suggested pizza. A few people didn't seem to want pizza. I didn't think anyone wanted to order from the normal MCPizza chains. I asked the bartender who he suggested, he gave me a menu that I passed it around and then I called in order. IIRC we ordered 2 large combination Pizzas($20 each) a chicken wrap($7), Gyro($7 -$10), large meatball sandwich($7 to $10). I assume there was a delivery charge, tax, and a tip. I don't know who paid or put in what. I announced the price and what was ordered and put some money on the pool table for people to add to.

We had a second pool table that was $10 and hour for 2 people, I paid for that(I don't even know how much it should have been, I just gave the bartender $40 and told him to keep the rest( I didn't complain, and I was tipping him $4 a drink).
------------------------------------------
Since you guys have been floating this ZK BJ testing idea around for a while, we even talked about it in private a few times(BTW, unless I missed it, Romes was the only avid BJ player who refused to be tested, I kept noting that) I have a bunch of stuff table game stuff in storage but didn't have time to search for it, and since no one else could come up with cards or a shoe I bought some.
-----------------------------------------
In case anyone wants to know, we were playing 8-ball with Bar room rules, not BCA rules.
How much were you willing to bet on the pool games, $5? And I even had to give 2 to 1

No one was willing to bet anything significant even when I offered good odds. Not that I care either way, I'm there to socialize, have some drinks, have fun period, even if the fun becomes -EV.

Quote: AxelWolf

...(BTW, unless I missed it, Romes was the only avid BJ player who refused to be tested, I kept noting that)

I said I'd have no problem doing it... and what you also failed to mention was that you said "okay let's have romes do it (3 second pause) PLAY ANOTHER GAME OF POOL YOU P*SSY let's go." To be honest I was having a bit of fun playing pool (since ZK helped carry me to victory 3 times) so taking time away from that to go count down my 1 millionth shoe didn't seem like much fun, but I'll do it to appease you next time if you want.

Quote: AxelWolf

In case anyone wants to know, we were playing 8-ball with Bar room rules, not BCA rules.
How much were you willing to bet on the pool games, $5? And I even had to give 2 to 1

You kept trying to hustle me. Then after evaluating some players skills I felt 2-1 was an advantage even if you were the best player in the room. How did your 1v1 action with ZK go? Genuinely curious because we had to leave. I bet those were much closer games.

Let the record show... when I met up with ZK and Axel I paid for all amenities. When your my guest I pick up all the tabs. This way nobody can feel hustled or say anything about it. Axel did pay for his first round because he didn't know I had an open tab, however I made sure to lose enough cash playing pool with these two to cover gas money and I made sure they got home safely. I hustle Casinos and Evil Empires... I try not to get into hustling hustlers money. I didnt make good on dinner because it was too difficult to get 8 to 10 APs to coordinate and some people are out of town coming in on the 4th of July weekend which is very busy. I like smaller outings anyway and anyone who feels I owe them a nice dinner please pm me to make arrangements. I might not stay for dinner but I will comp it nonetheless.

What I think is missing from all this is that I'm pretty sure everyone had a good time. I know I did.

So ZK, you now have met the real AP's on the forum. I hope you were open minded enough to see if there were any additional casino based opportunities that you could add to BJ counting. I don't think there is a single AP posting here that makes their income solely from BJ counting. I would surmise there isn't one that makes MOST of their income from BJ counting.
Good Luck.

Quote: billryan

I've been to three events with Axel. Everyone bashes his lack of leadership, yet everyone follows his lead.
He decided to play pool, we followed. He decided to order pizza, we followed. He did the ordering. I chipped in $11. , so we are at $51.
Do you really want to go all Captain Queeg and try to find out who ate the strawberries?
I didn't play any pool. Who paid for the table for the hours we were there?
I had a good time. hopefully, everyone else did. At least the curse isn't contagious, from all accounts.

Romes just likes feeling superior and some people like to get my goat. I certainly can't take stuff like this too seriously.

There have been many other things I set up that's not been posted about, they haven't any issues.

My only goal was to get people in the same location, hopefully, everyone can meet some new people and hopefully have a little fun.

I don't know that I decided anything really, I may have made suggestions but no one came up with anything different. When this subject came up at the beginning I suggested playing pool instead of -EV casino games or getting involved in some card counting test at a casino. Since I knew 5 or 6 people liked shooting pool I suggested we do that. I also wanted to include my GF as well, she usually doesn't like group events. She doesn't care to hang out in casinos and gamble unless it's a +EV situation(perhaps once in a while she will put a $20 a fun penny slot), even then it's hit or miss if she wants to participate unless it's super good.


I asked if you all wanted to go to a place nearby to eat. I didn't hear anyone say anything, I wasn't going to hang outside in the heat, so her and I headed next door to play pool and get some cheap/comped drinks.

As far and who paid for, and ate what, I didn't pay attention, I know I had once slice of pizza( there was a lot of stuff going on, I tried my best not to leave anyone out and encouraged people to participate.) I would have paid for it all and not cared, but someone handed me money and someone asked how much do I owe, I just the money on the table. I have paid for many WOV members shares of dinner many times. When it comes to friends and acquaintances and I know their financial situation is not as good as others, I usually pick up their share or part of it.

Quote: SOOPOO

So ZK, you now have met the real AP's on the forum. I hope you were open minded enough to see if there were any additional casino based opportunities that you could add to BJ counting. I don't think there is a single AP posting here that makes their income solely from BJ counting. I would surmise there isn't one that makes MOST of their income from BJ counting.
Good Luck.

This was my only advice since I don't play BJ. He could pay his bills easily doing other plays, and then the bankroll fluctuations wouldn't be so scary.

Quote: billryan

What I think is missing from all this is that I'm pretty sure everyone had a good time. I know I did.

I'm getting a ball busting vibe from all that's being said here rather than actual sourness, but I had a great time myself.

Quote: AxelWolf

As far and who paid for, and ate what, I didn't pay attention,...

Ugh I literally don't care who ordered/ate/paid what. I was just grumpy about it because I literally had not eaten all day and been out at the pool for 3+ hours. I was literally light headed a couple times and looking to eat something and was more flustered that I wasn't going to get to eat (after specifically requesting "my stomach is f*cked no onions/olives/mushrooms plz") for a while (since we had the show after as well). So I didn't eat until midnight after being at the pool all afternoon. THAT's what I was flustered with, nothing to do with orders/paid/etc/etc/etc. Sh*t happens I got over it in about 20 minutes.

Quote: Romes

I said I'd have no problem doing it... and what you also failed to mention was that you said "okay let's have romes do it (3 second pause) PLAY ANOTHER GAME OF POOL YOU P*SSY let's go." To be honest I was having a bit of fun playing pool (since ZK helped carry me to victory 3 times) so taking time away from that to go count down my 1 millionth shoe didn't seem like much fun, but I'll do it to appease you next time if you want.

You kept trying to hustle me. Then after evaluating some players skills I felt 2-1 was an advantage even if you were the best player in the room. How did your 1v1 action with ZK go? Genuinely curious because we had to leave. I bet those were much closer games.

I'm sure I lost every game I played all night. I think the pool hall must have been cheating me.

Everyone tosses this hustling pool around too much. If I were trying to hustle anyone I wouldn't have been ordering captains.
You wouldn't even know it if you were being hustled. The betting would have been 'your idea'. I would have convinced you to give me odds, I certainly wouldn't have been offering them.

Or, I would have just offered you a deal where I give you a 4 or 5 ball lead where I take them all off before I shoot. Or, I shot one handed or something crazy.

I wouldn't have brought in noticeable cases and pool sticks, it would have been my Meucci sneaky-pete(a sneaky-pete is professional stick made to look like a house stick).


When I first brought up the fact that you yourself or any anyone doubting ZK should also take the BJ test you balked. After I kept mentioning throughout the evening you weren't yourself taking the BJ test you finally begrudgingly agree. I think I just said FK it, just play pool. IMO, you should have been the 2nd person jumping up to take it.

Hey now.
You picked the place, you know the owner, you knew the bar keep. How do we really know what was in that bottle?
You probably keep a bottle of colored water behind the bar.

Quote: Romes

I said I'd have no problem doing it... and what you also failed to mention was that you said "okay let's have romes do it (3 second pause) PLAY ANOTHER GAME OF POOL YOU P*SSY let's go." To be honest I was having a bit of fun playing pool (since ZK helped carry me to victory 3 times) so taking time away from that to go count down my 1 millionth shoe didn't seem like much fun, but I'll do it to appease you next time if you want.

You kept trying to hustle me. Then after evaluating some players skills I felt 2-1 was an advantage even if you were the best player in the room. How did your 1v1 action with ZK go? Genuinely curious because we had to leave. I bet those were much closer games.

I won the first game against axel and then i stunk it up and lost the next 2 games idk how, but i missed some easy ones, and then the 4th game we didnt get to finish lol. Ill give credit where credit is due, axel made the shots he had to make, so kudos. And for anyone wondering, no i didnt get cheated by the pool hall. Although i did forget to check under the table for any magnets when axel shot.

All in all i enjoyed the meet up. Sure helped take my mind off this blackjack torture since i got here. I might start playing more at these pool halls and get back to my level back during my college years. Who knows, maybe i can find some drunks in there and get some EV off them. I used to miss maybe once or twice max all game consistently, but i've dropped off a bit.

Quote: Romes

Ugh I literally don't care who ordered/ate/paid what. I was just grumpy about it because I literally had not eaten all day and been out at the pool for 3+ hours. I was literally light headed a couple times and looking to eat something and was more flustered that I wasn't going to get to eat (after specifically requesting "my stomach is f*cked no onions/olives/mushrooms plz") for a while (since we had the show after as well). So I didn't eat until midnight after being at the pool all afternoon. THAT's what I was flustered with, nothing to do with orders/paid/etc/etc/etc. Sh*t happens I got over it in about 20 minutes.

It took you and entire 20 minutes to get over it? I'll take the over since you are still whining about it.

I don't remember you saying no onions/olives/mushrooms plz. That's probably why I ordered extra, or I just didn't pay attention(probably the latter, I guess that's why I never tried waitressing). You should have had your mommy or daddy come and pick off the bad little toppings for you(-;

Again I was not there to play the good host or coddle anyone, I just wanted to get everyone in one spot to meet each other, not be board, have a little fun and have someone test ZK. I have been around when there are a few people playing table games and everyone else is standing there watching. Not my idea of a good time.

If I ever decide to put so thing together again after this next weekend, I'll invite you, you will come, and you will like it.

Every one should get together downtown late night on the 18th of Aug. We get to town at like 11pm.

Quote: ZenKinG

I won the first game against axel and then i stunk it up and lost the next 2 games idk how, but i missed some easy ones, and then the 4th game we didnt get to finish lol. Ill give credit where credit is due, axel made the shots he had to make, so kudos. And for anyone wondering, no i didnt get cheated by the pool hall. Although i did forget to check under the table for any magnets when axel shot.

All in all i enjoyed the meet up. Sure helped take my mind off this blackjack torture since i got here. I might start playing more at these pool halls and get back to my level back during my college years. Who knows, maybe i can find some drunks in there and get some EV off them. I used to miss maybe once or twice max all game consistently, but i've dropped off a bit.

Anytime you want to go shoot some pool let me know. If I'm not busy I will be happy to come shoot. I know a few of us keep saying its something we should do more often. I think Maxpen, RS, Djatc and a few other guys here enjoy doing it.

I meet and dated some nice girls out shooting pool over the years. including my now long time GF. I still have friends see or talk to regularly I meet shooting pool from over 20 years ago.

Quote: billryan

Hey now.
You picked the place, you know the owner, you knew the bar keep. How do we really know what was in that bottle?
You probably keep a bottle of colored water behind the bar.

And pass up an opportunity to drink some Captian? Don't be silly.

Quote: AxelWolf

Anytime you want to go shoot some pool let me know. If I'm not busy I will be happy to come shoot. I know a few of us keep saying its something we should do more often. I think Maxpen, RS, Djatc and a few other guys here enjoy doing it.

I meet and dated some nice girls out shooting pool over the years. including my now long time GF. I still have friends see or talk to regularly I meet shooting pool from over 20 years ago.

Have you gone to that new place downtown thst has free pool and bowling?

I had a good time playing pool and meeting a couple new people. Axel does a good job of getting people together and I think some of us like giving him a hard time if something gets screwed up even if it's not his fault. The Lotus place needs a 4 day notice for parties of 6 or more. We have only been there a couple times that I can remember, thanks to PokerGrinder. That was always with less than 6, so we learned something new.
I was a little confused about the pizza. Where was the meat?🤔 Let's not start that trend. Last place I want to go for a meetup is VegeNation. Although for me personally that would be better than sushi.😋

Quote: MaxPen

I had a good time playing pool and meeting a couple new people. Axel does a good job of getting people together and I think some of us like giving him a hard time if something gets screwed up even if it's not his fault. The Lotus place needs a 4 day notice for parties of 6 or more. We have only been there a couple times that I can remember, thanks to PokerGrinder. That was always with less than 6, so we learned something new.
I was a little confused about the pizza. Where was the meat?🤔 Let's not start that trend. Last place I want to go for a meetup is VegeNation. Although for me personally that would be better than sushi.😋

I like most of you and all but I am so out for a Vegan meet up.

Quote: AxelWolf

In case anyone wants to know, we were playing 8-ball with Bar room rules, not BCA rules.
How much were you willing to bet on the pool games, $5? And I even had to give 2 to 1

No one was willing to bet anything significant even when I offered good odds. Not that I care either way, I'm there to socialize, have some drinks, have fun period, even if the fun becomes -EV.

Don't worry Axel, I think you and I are at a similar skill level in pool so I will allow you to give me 2 to 1 odds. :)

Little steakhouse/dive bar up north on Las Vegas Blvd called The Hitching Post Saloon. Top notch food at ridiculously low prices. Outdoor pool tables and horseshoes.
Perfect spot for a meet.

Had fun shooting pool the other night. Even though it was a rough "test", I'd say ZK's game is fine, but not perfect. :)

-8250 / 90 hours.

Finally decided to play again after a bit of a break to collect myself and decide how i really want to play this. Been thinking about other AP as well that i can possibly get into. Made +850 tonight, but I was up +2k at one point. Now that i look at it, i know why im so frustrated and its not even this vegas losing. At the beginning of these 900 or so hours i started on fire up 20k with a smaller bet size as well and completely overperformed my EV in the first 150 hours and since then my overall profit is only 33k. So basically ive played close to 800 hrs for only 13k. Let that sink in. Sigh. Thats what i think has depressed me. I basically been making less than minimum wage for the past 800 hrs if you count all the driving and walking that went into it as well. Im just convinced this whole rut ive been in will NEVER end.

Regarding vegas, this is how its gone : Ill have two 20s or two strong hands doubled down etc with max bets out and dealer has ONE out to make 21 and hits it everytime or makes a 4 or 5 card 20 when i have 19 etc. These are $1000 or $1500 swings every time on their miraculous one out card. I also dont remwmber the last time i got a 21 on a doubled 11 with a big bet out(No, its not selective memory). If i cant win these premium hands EVER, this losing will NEVER end.

Unreal. >:[

Me and three friends just got back from Vegas. I didn't play but they did. I was a scout not only looking for decent opportunities, but to keep an eye on floor personnel for heat. They took over $20,000 from this small weekend adventure ALL from these supposed cheating casinos. Spread was $25 or $50 to 2 x $450.

You and your friends just got lucky,they only cheat the good players.😁

Quote: Hunterhill

You and your friends just got lucky,they only cheat the good players.😁

Yeah, they're bad players. They use Hi-Lo...

If you work downtown in a big city and have to commute 40 mins each way and walk 8 minutes from the parking garage, you don't count that in your hourly rate. Don't do it here.