ZenKinG
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March 24th, 2017 at 5:16:06 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

The store is a business open to the public. Therefor they are free to record you, take pictures of you, etc, without your consent. The cashier could even ask young looking patrons buying alcohol for their ID (the horror)! The difference with a casino is when they ask for your ID they often set it on a clear window with a video recording device to take a snapshot of your info. It's pretty sheepish and certainly kinda violates your privacy, but you don't have to visit that store (or casino).

Stores could most certainty put a list together of people who've attempted to rob them and give that info to other stores. No one would blink an eye. Again, casinos take a snakey path close to this one and say they're sharing information about "undesirables." It just so happens that people who know how to win are "undesirable."



Doesn't matter if its public or private. You simply cannot steal sensitive information without the owner's consent, even something as simple as a picture. Why is it when an an advertising business contacts you or any type of business that wants to strengthen their brand, they must ask you for your permission before they go ahead and give out your information and pictures to the public; but when it comes to a casino, they dont need permission? Sounds like a double standard.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
darkoz
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March 24th, 2017 at 7:44:22 PM permalink
I wonder if attacking this from the gramm leach billey act is tenable

Below is from here. There is more info
https://www.fdic.gov/consumers/privacy/yourrights/

You can limit the personal information that banks and other financial institutions provide to other companies.

The federal Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 created a new opportunity for you to limit the transfer of your personal financial information. The law attempts to balance your right to privacy with financial institutions' need to share information for normal business purposes. Some consumers don't object to information sharing-they want their names on mailing and telephone lists so they can easily find out about new products and services. But other consumers want fewer solicitations and more privacy. If you're in the latter category, you have some important new responsibilities if you want to take advantage of your new rights.

It's important that you read the mail you receive from your bank and other financial institutions. The law requires these companies to explain how they use and share your personal information. The law also allow you to stop or "opt out" of certain information sharing. "You need to be observant," says Ken Baebel, Assistant Director of the FDIC's Division of Compliance and Consumer Affairs. "You need to look for the privacy notices from your financial institutions, which may come as part of a monthly statement or as a separate mailing. You also need to understand whether an institution intends to share personal information with other companies and, if so, what you can do to prevent information sharing, if that's what you want. Otherwise, it will be up to the institution to decide who gets details about you and your finances."

The new law applies to many types of financial institutions. The law covers banks, savings and loans, credit unions, insurance companies and securities firms. It even includes some retailers and automobile dealers that collect and share personal information about consumers to whom they extend or arrange credit.

How does the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act protect my financial privacy?

First, the law requires each financial institution to tell its customers about the kinds of information it collects and the types of businesses that may be provided that information. This disclosure, called the privacy notice, is intended to help you decide whether you are comfortable with that information-sharing arrangement. The law went into effect July 1, 2001, and you should have received a privacy notice from any financial institution where you already had an account. Anytime you open a new account with a different financial institution you must be given a copy of the privacy notice at that time. Financial institutions also are required to send a privacy notice to their customers once a year.

Second, the law says that if your financial institution intends to share your information with anyone outside its corporate family, it also must give you the chance to "opt out" or say "no" to information sharing under certain circumstances. Even consumers who are not technically customers of a financial institution-such as former customers or people who unsuccessfully applied for a loan or credit card-will have the right to opt out of information sharing with outside companies.

Third, the law requires that financial institutions describe how they will protect the confidentiality and security of your information.
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darkoz
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March 24th, 2017 at 7:54:01 PM permalink
So if financial institutions have to give u an opt out for sharing your personal info why not attack from this angle. I think we all can agree that casinos never give an opt out to card counters and ap players

Next the law says fraudulent acts allow for sharing but card counting and legal ap would not qualify regardless how casinos feel about ap (fraudulent under the law not in casinos minds would be the proper interpretation of the act)

Finally if anyone argues whether casinos are financial institutions or not here is their standing according to the irs which is a pretty definitive definition

https://www.irs.gov/government-entities/indian-tribal-governments/itg-faq-1-answer-when-are-casinos-considered-to-be-financial-institutions-subject-to-requirements-of-the-bank-secrecy-act-title-31
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RS
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March 25th, 2017 at 2:31:43 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

The store is a business open to the public. Therefor they are free to record you, take pictures of you, etc, without your consent. The cashier could even ask young looking patrons buying alcohol for their ID (the horror)! The difference with a casino is when they ask for your ID they often set it on a clear window with a video recording device to take a snapshot of your info. It's pretty sheepish and certainly kinda violates your privacy, but you don't have to visit that store (or casino).

Stores could most certainty put a list together of people who've attempted to rob them and give that info to other stores. No one would blink an eye. Again, casinos take a snakey path close to this one and say they're sharing information about "undesirables." It just so happens that people who know how to win are "undesirable."



I'm talking about the sharing of your private information, NOT the recording or gathering of your information.

Bottom line: Do you think it's okay for a casino or any business to put your PICTURE, DRIVERS LICENSE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, LICENSE PLATE, FULL NAME, on the internet for anyone to see?
Sandybestdog
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March 25th, 2017 at 5:24:04 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I can understand alerts being sent to properties within the same ownership. What I can't fathom, is why one group would help its competition. If anything, I'd encourage the AP threats to target my competition!


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
RS
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March 25th, 2017 at 9:11:08 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.



In other words -- you are the enemy of your enemy: everyone has a friend as long as they have an enemy.


That's what the saying means, right?
beachbumbabs
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March 25th, 2017 at 11:45:09 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I'm talking about the sharing of your private information, NOT the recording or gathering of your information.

Bottom line: Do you think it's okay for a casino or any business to put your PICTURE, DRIVERS LICENSE, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, LICENSE PLATE, FULL NAME, on the internet for anyone to see?



You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
odiousgambit
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March 26th, 2017 at 4:12:25 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

It just so happens that people who know how to win are "undesirable."



the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Sandybestdog
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March 26th, 2017 at 7:54:28 AM permalink
Quote: RS

In other words -- you are the enemy of your enemy: everyone has a friend as long as they have an enemy.


That's what the saying means, right?


Casino A's enemy is the AP. Casino B is the enemy of the AP so it is mutually beneficial for both casino's to share info even though they are in competition. Caesars and MGM probably have corporate policy's about sharing but all of the independent ones probably rely on each other.

A new casino just opened in my area. I was there about 10 minutes when I realized I better watch myself because I recognized so many people from other places.
Ibeatyouraces
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March 26th, 2017 at 7:59:29 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.


The bolded part.
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RS
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March 26th, 2017 at 12:15:06 PM permalink
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a player's club that had something like that in their set of rules. Even then, many of them in OSN were probably not playing rated.
darkoz
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March 26th, 2017 at 12:31:54 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: beachbumbabs

You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.


The bolded part.



Having actually read many players club rules and privacy policies i have yet to see any that stated they reserve the right to share your personal info with third party unaffiliated companies

In fact some state the opposite reassuring people their personal info is safe barring court order. Most company privacy policies are to relieve their patrons concerns over privacy. Very few are written with AP in mind besides the obvious use of múltiple player card use which is so obvious the casino is nervous of everyone and their grandmother doing it
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Ibeatyouraces
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March 26th, 2017 at 12:37:02 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: beachbumbabs

You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.


The bolded part.



Having actually read many players club rules and privacy policies i have yet to see any that stated they reserve the right to share your personal info with third party unaffiliated companies


Motorcity casino does. In fact, I think on one of their ads in the casino it mentions just being on the property, you give them the right to do this.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
darkoz
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March 26th, 2017 at 1:06:46 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: beachbumbabs

You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.


The bolded part.



Having actually read many players club rules and privacy policies i have yet to see any that stated they reserve the right to share your personal info with third party unaffiliated companies


Motorcity casino does. In fact, I think on one of their ads in the casino it mentions just being on the property, you give them the right to do this.



Their privacy policy says they dont share your personal information with 3rd parties except for a few exceptions like court order like i said. Just looked it up on their website
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RS
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March 26th, 2017 at 1:15:44 PM permalink
https://www.motorcitycasino.com/ViewerFull.aspx?Doc=pageFooterMenu&Page=PrivacyPolicy


Quote:

While MotorCity Casino Hotel will not sell, trade or otherwise disclose your personal information to any third party, we may send personally identifiable information about you to other organizations when we have your consent to share such information.

MotorCity Casino Hotel only shares personally identifiable information with other companies or individuals outside of MotorCity Casino Hotel in the following limited circumstances:
We provide such information to our affiliated companies or other trusted businesses or promotional partners for the purpose of processing personally identifiable information on our behalf. We require that these parties agree to process such information based on our instructions and in compliance with this Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures. MotorCity Casino Hotel and its promotional partners may use the information collected by us or our promotional partners:

(1) to respond to your inquiries;

(2) for marketing purposes, including, but not limited to, notifying you of special promotions, offers and events (including promotions and offers through our promotional partners);

(3) to process and fulfill reservations and make a record of reservations;

(4) to process and fulfill purchases and make a record of purchases;

(5) to enable us to contact you for confirmation or customer service after reservations and purchases are made or after you sign up for or participate in certain activities;

(6) to respond to inquiries, complaints and other communications;

(7) to cross-reference with other personal information that we have acquired about you or may acquire about you through other sources; and

(8) for profiling or demographic purposes.


Due to the existing regulatory environment, we cannot ensure that all of your private communications and other personally identifiable information will never be disclosed in ways not otherwise described in this Privacy Policy. MotorCity Casino Hotel may access, use, preserve or disclose such information as reasonably necessary or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to

(1) comply with legal process or other legal requirements of any governmental authorities, including but not limited to the Michigan Gaming Control Board,

(2) enforce our Terms of Use, including investigation of potential violations thereof,

(3) detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security or technical issues, or

(4) protect against imminent harm to the rights, property or safety of MotorCity Casino Hotel, its users or the public as required or permitted by law.



NOTE: There is more to this privacy before and after the excerpt quoted above. I put in a line break at each of the numbers for easier reading.
Ibeatyouraces
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March 26th, 2017 at 2:09:03 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: beachbumbabs

You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.


The bolded part.



Having actually read many players club rules and privacy policies i have yet to see any that stated they reserve the right to share your personal info with third party unaffiliated companies


Motorcity casino does. In fact, I think on one of their ads in the casino it mentions just being on the property, you give them the right to do this.



Their privacy policy says they dont share your personal information with 3rd parties except for a few exceptions like court order like i said. Just looked it up on their website


The "or otherwise" is the disclaimer.
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onenickelmiracle
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March 26th, 2017 at 3:36:11 PM permalink
There are bigger fish to fry. Tired of that microwave eavesdropping on me.

Privacy really isn't really a right, just something the supreme court made up to allow abortions if you choose. The only way to keep your privacy is for you to hide in the woods, in a cave, with a blanket over your head. Privacy exists, but really only for other people to make money off it. Laws have to be passed to change how things work and at the federal level. Even that ancestrydna thing anyone that pays for it, gives up their DNA privacy, even when you're paying for it. If you should have a gene that is the cure for a disease like cancer, they'll take it and never give you a penny. All those farmers, their crops get fertilized by trespassing pollen, then the companies sue them for patent violations by Monsanto. I'm all for rights of individuals, especially against those of the powerful, but we're going backwards big time and losing every battle. It's not going to get better.
I am a robot.
darkoz
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March 26th, 2017 at 3:43:16 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: beachbumbabs

You didn't ask me, but my answer would be no, absolutely not, under any circumstances is that ok, without your express permission, which might be in the fine print of whatever players club you signed up for, but especially not ok if you didn't, and they just grabbed your ID while trespassing you or something. I think you could sue.


The bolded part.



Having actually read many players club rules and privacy policies i have yet to see any that stated they reserve the right to share your personal info with third party unaffiliated companies



Motorcity casino does. In fact, I think on one of their ads in the casino it mentions just being on the property, you give them the right to do this.



Their privacy policy says they dont share your personal information with 3rd parties except for a few exceptions like court order like i said. Just looked it up on their website


The "or otherwise" is the disclaimer.



The opt out is not there lightly. It is mandatory of financial instituitons which motor city qualifies as per the gramm leach bliley act of 1999. They have some limited means to get around it. Court order fraud etc

The "or other" is their attorney attempt to open up unforeseen avenued but the law has precedence. A competent attorney would tear them a new butthole if they think two words "or other" is some magical protection

Their policy is too not share personal information with 3rd party vendors as stated. Aside from a few caveats i dont know why you insist it is their policy
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mcallister3200
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RSbeachbumbabs
March 26th, 2017 at 3:50:47 PM permalink
Just because someone puts in writing that they may do something of questionable legality does not make it lawful.
Ibeatyouraces
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March 26th, 2017 at 4:09:58 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Just because someone puts in writing that they may do something of questionable legality does not make it lawful.


Well, as I stated on page 2 of this thread, someone(s) is(are) going to have to question that legality of it.

Great question for Nersesian.
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darkoz
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March 26th, 2017 at 4:32:45 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Well, as I stated on page 2 of this thread, someone(s) is(are) going to have to question that legality of it.

Great question for Nersesian.



The reason i know about the financial acts and stuff is i was looking into pursuing an action but the issue is this type of case is relatively untried and probably not of value enough to be worthwhile for an attorney. So until someone pursues this the casinos will get away with it
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Romes
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March 27th, 2017 at 9:59:39 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

Doesn't matter if its public or private. You simply cannot steal sensitive information without the owner's consent, even something as simple as a picture. Why is it when an an advertising business contacts you or any type of business that wants to strengthen their brand, they must ask you for your permission before they go ahead and give out your information and pictures to the public; but when it comes to a casino, they dont need permission? Sounds like a double standard.

Public vs Private matters big time. Go out to Times Square in NY and take some pictures, happening to catch the faces of tourists and post those on Facebook. Technically you took a picture of someone random "in public" and posted it online! That's legal... Now try to go to someone's house and photograph them through their windows then post that online... That's illegal.

I think you want to fight the fight RS is more referring too... Not the gathering of the info, but the SHARING of the info. Again though, public vs private is what they hide behind because even in the examples above sharing online is OKAY if the source came from a public gathering. And since we don't "have" to go to casinos but we "choose" to, they generally consider this us giving up our information voluntarily.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
mcallister3200
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March 27th, 2017 at 10:35:43 AM permalink
They are private businesses. So basically they'll use the private business argument to throw you out if they want, and then public place argument to share your info. How convenient..
darkoz
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March 27th, 2017 at 10:40:39 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Public vs Private matters big time. Go out to Times Square in NY and take some pictures, happening to catch the faces of tourists and post those on Facebook. Technically you took a picture of someone random "in public" and posted it online! That's legal... Now try to go to someone's house and photograph them through their windows then post that online... That's illegal.

I think you want to fight the fight RS is more referring too... Not the gathering of the info, but the SHARING of the info. Again though, public vs private is what they hide behind because even in the examples above sharing online is OKAY if the source came from a public gathering. And since we don't "have" to go to casinos but we "choose" to, they generally consider this us giving up our information voluntarily.



And yet wen they are shooting material for a video they place prominent signs saying u may be videotaped and included in marketing promotions so they apparently dont feel they have a blanket authorization to even share your image without outwardly conspicuous notification
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Romes
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March 27th, 2017 at 12:04:23 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

And yet wen they are shooting material for a video they place prominent signs saying u may be videotaped and included in marketing promotions so they apparently dont feel they have a blanket authorization to even share your image without outwardly conspicuous notification

Don't quote me, but I want to say I heard Nersesian on GWAE say something about a precedent with casinos (or 'public' in general) that it's "expected" you're going to be video taped and/or photographed. Think of it like a bank. When you go in to a bank, I would wager the vast majority of people "know" / "expect" they're going to be video taped.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
darkoz
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March 27th, 2017 at 12:10:25 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Don't quote me, but I want to say I heard Nersesian on GWAE say something about a precedent with casinos (or 'public' in general) that it's "expected" you're going to be video taped and/or photographed. Think of it like a bank. When you go in to a bank, I would wager the vast majority of people "know" / "expect" they're going to be video taped.



Understood. The taping of your image is not in question. Its the sharing of those images with 3rd parties or the use of them for purposes other than intercompany or security
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Ibeatyouraces
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March 27th, 2017 at 12:25:00 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Understood. The taping of your image is not in question. Its the sharing of those images with 3rd parties or the use of them for purposes other than intercompany or security


And to add, as I said before, these people (OSN, Griffin, etc.) don't give you the opportunity to dispute the claims these casinos enter about you. Again, I'd deny everything in there about me.
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