Video BJ

I know there are various NV gaming laws about games that represent cards or dice.

Do all states and Indian casinos have a similar law like this?

I know that in some places they classify Video Blackjack as a SLOT.

Could they then program and have a Video blackjack game play and act like a slot?

Just something to think about when travelling or a possible reason why we keep hearing about outrageous results.

Depends on the jurisdiction. Most states follow Nevada's lead on this requirement though.

Quote: tringlomane

Depends on the jurisdiction. Most states follow Nevada's lead on this requirement though.

Yes, and Nevada manufacturers pretty much have to follow those rules even outside Nevada. The exception is the Class II bingo and video lottery machines.

Quote: tringlomane

Depends on the jurisdiction. Most states follow Nevada's lead on this requirement though.

What's an example of another state that does ?

I have only seen video BJ machines once and I was very apprehensive toward it. Are they trust worthy?

Quote: DiscreteMaths2

What's an example of another state that does ?

Here is a state that does it with Native American casinos, Arizona.

Sections 2.3.11 and 12 (Live Game Correlation and Card Games, respectively) in the middle of page 16 of the linked PDF file.

https://gaming.az.gov/sites/default/files/documents/files/AppendixA.pdf

Quote: Acender

I have only seen video BJ machines once and I was very apprehensive toward it. Are they trust worthy?

Almost all video bj games pay even money for bj, restrict what you can double on and shuffle after every hand.
They'll suck up your money fast as a slot machine.

I figured as much. Not touching that with an eleven-foot pole. 8)

Quote: billryan

Almost all video bj games pay even money for bj, restrict what you can double on and shuffle after every hand.
They'll suck up your money fast as a slot machine.

At first I thought this made no sense, since the casino doesn't need to pay a dealer and pit boss to operate these games.

Then I realized, the machine is probably $200k ... more than a dealer earns in 5 years.

Quote: gamerfreak

At first I thought this made no sense, since the casino doesn't need to pay a dealer and pit boss to operate these games.

Then I realized, the machine is probably $200k ... more than a dealer earns in 5 years.

Except that it takes about five full time dealers in a week to spread the game when you include breaks since the machine is 24/7.

Game King VBJ usually pays even money. The multi-player ones often pay 3-2 but ones at Caesars and MGM in Las Vegas are 6-5 or even money.

When someone says video blackjack are they talking about the blackjack only game where 4-5 players can sit and there's a female dealer that talks as you walk by? Or the blackjack game selectable on a video poker machine?

Quote: BTLWI

When someone says video blackjack are they talking about the blackjack only game where 4-5 players can sit and there's a female dealer that talks as you walk by? Or the blackjack game selectable on a video poker machine?

I was referring to any and all or I would've been specific.

Interesting question. I believe I remember Bob Dancer saying that video poker machines in New York are considered slots, and that they indeed were not programmed to run like normal VP, essentially making the paytable meaningless and the games unplayable. So it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the same were applied to video blackjack in some jurisdictions.

Quote: gamerfreak

At first I thought this made no sense, since the casino doesn't need to pay a dealer and pit boss to operate these games.

Then I realized, the machine is probably $200k ... more than a dealer earns in 5 years.

I think the machines are leased.
To clarify my original post- the video BJ that is played on machines that resemble video poker machines are horrible. The ones where there is a simulated dealer and accommodate five or six players are not bad. One good thing about them is there is no tipping.

Quote: cwazy

Interesting question. I believe I remember Bob Dancer saying that video poker machines in New York are considered slots, and that they indeed were not programmed to run like normal VP, essentially making the paytable meaningless and the games unplayable. So it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the same were applied to video blackjack in some jurisdictions.

There are no real slot machines in NY. They are all video lottery machines. No skill required. The machine is linked to a central server that randomly sends out winning plays, as it was explained to me.

Quote: billryan

There are no real slot machines in NY. They are all video lottery machines. No skill required. The machine is linked to a central server that randomly sends out winning plays, as it was explained to me.

I was just saying there are apparently machines in NY that masquerade as video poker machines but aren't. Here is a document explaining the situation. The most relevant part to this discussion:

"The problem, however, is that the video poker machines in New York are not traditional video poker machines. They are no different than all the other video lottery machines at New York’s racinos. They work on the same basis as an instant lottery scratch-off ticket. As the New York Court of Appeals stated, that the terminal “receives the next ticket from the site controller and displays the predetermined outcome--win or loss. If the player wins, the VLT will print an "electronically encoded instrument" which can be used to play additional video lottery games or can be redeemed for value.” The Court of Appeals specifically distinguished the approved video lottery games that were electronic instant tickets from disapproved games of which “involved a single player pitting his or her skill against a machine.” The video poker games in New York are simply electronic scratch off tickets in disguise. There is no skill involved in the game. The 9-6 machines don’t return 99.5% of a player’s bets. The 8-5 machines don’t pay back 97.3% of a player’s bets. Instead, they pay back the same 92% as all other video lottery terminals."

So it wouldn't surprise me at all if the same or similar rules held true for video blackjack in some other jurisdictions.

I actually think the Video BJ, caps and Bac in NY are supposed to work different than the Video lottery.

I don't know how it works there.

My main question and concern was if are there any states or Indian joints that could actually program a VBJ machine like a slot and remain within the laws. I'm not talking about the obvious bingo class stuff.

For the most part I would not worry about it, and well that's why I'm asking. I wouldn't want to just assume something and find out later my assumptions were wrong.

Yes I'm talking about all of them including the Big tit, Japanese anime, and various other machines. There's been concern especially about pot O gold BJ IIRC there's no obvious bingo notice on those.