pokerface
pokerface
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June 11th, 2016 at 9:31:19 AM permalink
I understand blackjack payout is one of the reasons for card counting. My question is if blackjack pays 1:1, plain & simply, is it still meaningful to count, assuming all other rules are good for players?
winning streaks come and go, losing streak never ends.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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June 11th, 2016 at 9:47:51 AM permalink
No.

The card counting edge from high cards (tens and aces) stems from three things:
1. The ability to receive 3:2 on blackjacks, while the dealer receives an even-money win. This 3:2 blackjack bonus favors the player on high counts, and;
2. The likelihood of the dealer busting when hitting a stiff (12-16) also favoring the player on high counts
3. Multiple rounds per shoe, where there are periods of ten and ace-rich deck compositions to bet-raise during a "hot" shoe.

This is why 6:5 blackjacks, even money blackjacks, and CSM (continuous shuffler machines) thwart card counting, and why casinos use them. You basically need a 3:2 game with deep cut card penetration for a good countable game.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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June 11th, 2016 at 9:53:56 AM permalink
Dan do you consult for casinos or just (edited )create games?
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
pokerface
pokerface
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:00:16 AM permalink
Thanks Dan.
Another question, is there even money BJ table in major Vegas casinos?
winning streaks come and go, losing streak never ends.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:01:09 AM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Dan do you consult for casinos or just try and create games?



I do not consult. Actually, reducing card counting requires a combination of proper game parameters and good surveillance and pit supervision. Blackjack card counting is the low hanging fruit in game protection. (Install CSM games, check. Install 6:5, check. Supervision took the class and has experience, check. Surveillance is on it, check....)

I mostly design games (with an eye to "before-the-fact" game protection in design). At this point it isn't "try to create game," as I have a lot of games out on the floor.
My focus on game protection is in the design stage, not in the pit, where it is a bit late to implement.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:06:26 AM permalink
Didn't mean to sound rude sorry, it was an honest question
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:07:41 AM permalink
Quote: pokerface

Thanks Dan.
Another question, is there even money BJ table in major Vegas casinos?


Some games like Superfun-21 have even money blackjack, though may give back some AP ability through other game features. There aren't many, there's more 6:5, that seems to be the big thing now.
There may be some BJ variants coming with various low-house-edge features allowed by even-money BJs.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
billryan
billryan
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:19:41 AM permalink
I would think 6-5 BJ lowers the counters advantage but doesn't completely negate it.
Are you saying it negates it entirely?
TomG
TomG
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:23:18 AM permalink
Quote: pokerface

Thanks Dan.
Another question, is there even money BJ table in major Vegas casinos?



Some will offer $1 or $2 minimum tables during the slow times of the year that typically pay even money, but go to 6-5 if you bet $5 or more. Sahara was either the first, or the first to promote it heavily.

If you can spread big enough ($1 to $100 or even better $1 to $500) it can be beaten. Takes a lot more than just plus one, minus one. A lot of the edge would come from index plays, especially insurance.
RonC
RonC
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June 11th, 2016 at 10:39:04 AM permalink
6:5 is not blackjack. It ought to be criminal. Those who support it should be whipped repeatedly with a wet noodle.

Protect your 3:2 game correctly and there is no need for 6:5. Let the players who can't afford your casino at 3:2 minimum bet levels you require move on to casinos that better fit them.

Encourage counting. Most people can't really do it well enough to make money because they don't put the time in and they will lose thinking they have some kind of advantage. Ban those who really beat your butts through counting; let the masses who try to drink and count keep on losing to you.

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