James Grosjean's "Exhibit CAA: Beyond Counting, 2009"
I have one copy of Grosjean's book,"Exhibit CAA: Beyond Counting" (2009, Hardcover).
The book's condition is very good.
I don't know how much is the appropriate price or market value these days.
If you have interest in the book, please e-mail me to (deleted).
Thank you
Susumu
I have interest, but I guess I'm curious if anyone knows... Apparently this 2nd book has about 300 more pages. Does it contain all of the original material plus new information?Quote: susumu188Hi there-
I have one copy of Grosjean's book,"Exhibit CAA: Beyond Counting" (2009, Hardcover).
The book's condition is very good.
I don't know how much is the appropriate price or market value these days.
If you have interest in the book, please e-mail me to "susumu188@gmail.com".
Thank you
Susumu
Any idea on a fair price?
I don't know older version of "Beyond Counting".
So, I cannot compare those Two versions old and new.
I checked eBay by Google some days ago.
Seems, market value of "Exhibit CAA: Beyond Counting, 2009" these days may be around $3,000.
Susumu
Quote: AxelWolfJust out of curiosity how hard/easy would it be to counterfeit something like this?
I have found several copies for sale, $50 each. PM if interested (that is definately a joke).
Quote: susumu188Hi,
I don't know older version of "Beyond Counting".
So, I cannot compare those Two versions old and new.
I checked eBay by Google some days ago.
Seems, market value of "Exhibit CAA: Beyond Counting, 2009" these days may be around $3,000.
Susumu
I've seen the price all over the place, both higher and lower, over the last couple of years. However, I don't know that ebay is the best place to determine "market value". People ask all kinds of prices there, but who knows what they really get (if they even can sell it).
Regardless, thanks for offering it, and I hope you get good value on it.
Quote: beachbumbabsI've seen the price all over the place, both higher and lower, over the last couple of years. However, I don't know that ebay is the best place to determine "market value". People ask all kinds of prices there, but who knows what they really get (if they even can sell it).
Regardless, thanks for offering it, and I hope you get good value on it.
Now, I checked eBay, but I couldn't find seller of the book. I don't know the trend of the price in recent years.
For me, as a seller of the book, $3,000 or near is good, very good. I pay shipping cost for EMS or DHL.
Personally, I think, the book may be good for investment. Because the book and author J.Grosjean are both famous. Perhaps, the price of the book may be higher in the future.
Quote: susumu188For me, as a seller of the book, $3,000 or near is good, very good.
As far as I know, it has never sold above 3K before. If I were in your shoes I'd accept an easy 2K.
BTW, for future reference, please seek admin approval in advance for making a for-profit post. I'll let it go with a warning this time.
Quote: WizardAs far as I know, it has never sold above 3K before. If I were in your shoes I'd accept an easy 2K.
BTW, for future reference, please seek admin approval in advance for making a for-profit post. I'll let it go with a warning this time.
Oh, Wizard,
I'm so sorry, I didn't know about for-profit posting rule. I would be very happy if this thread can stay here for some days.
I would like to sell the book with reasonable price even it's below 3k.
Quote: susumu188Oh, Wizard,
I'm so sorry, I didn't know about for-profit posting rule. I would be very happy if this thread can stay here for some days.
I would like to sell the book with reasonable price even it's below 3k.
The Wiz gets 35% :-)
Quote: susumu188Oh, Wizard,
I'm so sorry, I didn't know about for-profit posting rule. I would be very happy if this thread can stay here for some days.
I would like to sell the book with reasonable price even it's below 3k.
I believe that this poster is the same person who had been trying to sell this copy on bj21 for weeks, starting for way more than $3k, and then kept dropping price when he did not get any offers.
Eventually, w/o a taker, he stopped posting his interest in selling it, moving over here, once again inflating his asking price.
My apologies if I am confusing this poster with the poster over on Stanford Wong's site.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIt regularly sells for $2k+ on eBay so I don't know why he/she doesn't try and sell it there.
What is so magical about this book that makes it worth $2K?
Quote: SiegfriedRoyWhat is so magical about this book that makes it worth $2K?
It's like that very hard to get baseball rookie card out of a pack.
Quote: rmwlawI believe that this poster is the same person who had been trying to sell this copy on bj21 for weeks, starting for way more than $3k, and then kept dropping price when he did not get any offers.
Eventually, w/o a taker, he stopped posting his interest in selling it, moving over here, once again inflating his asking price.
My apologies if I am confusing this poster with the poster over on Stanford Wong's site.
You are not confused, rmwlaw. He is also posting on Twoplustwo poker forums.
Most people are happy to sell their copy on ebay, where it routinely gets $2k. This person is apparently wanting to get max dollar, and thought he could do that by advertising more directly to gambling enthusiast and AP's on gambling/AP related sites. I think the flaw in his logic is that any AP that wants the book, already has a copy.
Quote: SiegfriedRoyWhat is so magical about this book that makes it worth $2K?
It has super duper secrets that we all
know now, so it's worth squat other
than a collectible.
Quote: beachbumbabssusumu188 has been suspended, nuclear option, for system selling/spamming without prior permission. This thread has been amended to delete his contact information.
Hmm, the Wiz just gave him a warning, but you nuked him?
I think he posted again about it or some new information came out.Quote: MrVHmm, the Wiz just gave him a warning, but you nuked him?
I scratched my head at this one, too. That is, until I saw he started this thread, trying to sell a (possibly plagiarized) betting system the day after he received and acknowledged the Wiz's warning.Quote: MrVHmm, the Wiz just gave him a warning, but you nuked him?
Quote: TarzanMy copy of Exhibit CAA is not for sale but I was thinking about selling my copy of "Masturbatory practices in Northern Siberia" by Ivan Yerkanoff for only about $14.00. After seeing what you did to this guy, I'm sure not going to try and hock it off on here, though!
Deleted, again.
Somebody important might read this jhit one day!
Quote: SiegfriedRoyWhat is so magical about this book that makes it worth $2K?
Let me preface this by saying that Beyond Counting is a masterpiece. In my opinion, James Grosjean is the most brilliant person in the field of the study of casino games now or ever. I would not dare to compare my level to his.
That said, the number of people on earth who would get $2,000, or even $20, worth of value from BC is quite small. It is hundreds and hundreds of page in small print of esoteric tables and complicated strategies of situations you will never see. The emphasis is on hole carding and collusion but he hides the gems of information in a heap of rocks to make it hard for those on the other side to know how advantage players are really beating them. I think for a lot of owners, including me, it is a show-off book. I'm proud to have it but I very rarely actually open it.
For the average advantage player, I think that Advanced Advantage Play by our own Eliot Jacobson would be much more useful.
Quote: WizardI think for a lot of owners, including me, it is a show-off book. I'm proud to have it but I very rarely actually open it.
That's brave of you to admit this. :) Some of the really advanced stuff today, not necessarily just in BC, there is really only 1%, maybe even .1% of AP's that are capable of understanding and pulling some of these techniques off. But almost every AP that I encounter believes they are in that small fraction of one percent. Everybody thinks THEY are the elite. Lol.
I don't think that I am the elite. I didn't understand a good portion of the information and a lot of what I did understand was just beyond my ability. I only borrowed BC for about 3 weeks time, so perhaps if I had purchased, and really studied, I could have benefited more. As it is, I picked up a few things here and there that I have benefited from, but had I purchased it for $2k, I can admit that I would be one of those that did not get my money's worth.
100% agree that Grosjean is brilliant. But I hate to see some of that brilliance wasted on things like hole-carding. He is capable of so much better than that. As you can tell, I am not a fan of HCing, which I would say the majority of AP's that still play table games have gravitated towards in the last 5-10 years, with all the new and variations of games that are hole-card-able (<-my own word....thank you).
I won't say HCing is cheating, but it is close IMO. You are using information you aren't intended to have and that you shouldn't have by the natural play of the game. My own experience with HCing lasted a couple months (and I am not proud I experimented that long) before I decided that method was just not for me. I didn't care for winning that way. So I kind of hate to see James having focused on this aspect as much as he did, when he is capable of so much more that that.
Thanks, Mike!Quote: WizardFor the average advantage player, I think that Advanced Advantage Play by our own Eliot Jacobson would be much more useful.
I think that the reason that CAA no longer sells for $2500+ is because, in part, of my book and blog, together with what Stephen How has put out there, as well as the wealth of information that Phil Ivey and Don Johnson let loose. Grosjean's methods are just not that arcane any more. This web site has probably helped depress the price of CAA as well with the open and expert discussion of certain advanced topics.
As for reading CAA, I confess to reading certain parts very carefully, some parts multiple times. For example, I love "The Ultimate Rant." I can't tell you how many times I have read that.
Quote: MrVHmm, the Wiz just gave him a warning, but you nuked him?
You sort of got answered in the thread, but since you're asking me:
He posted his ad for the book as his first post.
The Wizard warned him about posting sales ads without permission.
He acknowledged the warning and apologized.
He then started a new thread offering his system for sale, and again advertised the book.
It was the second ad that got him nuked by me. Apparently his apology and acknowledgement meant nothing.
Quote: Wizard
For the average advantage player, I think that Advanced Advantage Play by our own Eliot Jacobson would be much more useful.
I'll second this. Bought this book a few months back and it has pretty much everything you need to know. I only found 1-2 places where I wanted to know a number that wasn't in the book, but Eliot gave me those almost immediately after I emailed him.
I think the best part about AAP was it got me and my teammate thinking about AP in a completely different light. Once you realize almost every game at a casino is beatable, you can start scouting for your own opportunities and coding your own simulations which ends up being immensely valuable.
Quote: IbeatyouracesJust the one sentence James writes about Frank Scoblete, Jerry Patterson and some other guy is worth the price of the book alone!
Please share via PM.
Quote: HowManyPlease share via PM.
It's basically a warning to never purchase anything from those individuals. I can name a few others like John Patrick, Rob Singer, etc., to add to that list. In fact, I think that topic would be a great entry in his blog.
Quote: DRichI have heard there is a pirated soft copy of CAA out there but I don't know of anybody that admits to having it. Rumor is that it is an early version from before it was published.
I received a pirated copy several years ago from a AP friend from another site. It was among a number of pirated material that he sent to about a dozen of us, that were on his network list. I opened the file and took a look before deleting it. It was really poor quality. The pages were all out of alignment, and parts of paragraphs were even slightly distorted (bad quality scanning).
I had read CAA before and having a copy to refer to and look things up would have been beneficial, but I couldn't do it like that. While I am a huge fan of Mr Grosjeans abilities, I am not a big fan of his attitude, the way he talks down to some in the community, particularly on the message boards. He doesn't seem to be much of a fan of mine as well, having singled me out in a number of post and blogs. I am a lowly card counter that he seems to despise. But even with that being the nature of our relationship, I would never consider stealing from him. No author deserves that, and that's what accepting a pirated copy amounts to.
So you sampled it and then tossed it in the trash. At least you didn't put it back on the shelf (-;Quote: kewljI received a pirated copy several years ago from a AP friend from another site. It was among a number of pirated material that he sent to about a dozen of us, that were on his network list. I opened the file and took a look before deleting it. It was really poor quality. The pages were all out of alignment, and parts of paragraphs were even slightly distorted (bad quality scanning).
I had read CAA before and having a copy to refer to and look things up would have been beneficial, but I couldn't do it like that. While I am a huge fan of Mr Grosjeans abilities, I am not a big fan of his attitude, the way he talks down to some in the community, particularly on the message boards. He doesn't seem to be much of a fan of mine as well, having singled me out in a number of post and blogs. I am a lowly card counter that he seems to despise. But even with that being the nature of our relationship, I would never consider stealing from him. No author deserves that, and that's what accepting a pirated copy amounts to.
Quote: AxelWolfSo you sampled it and then tossed it in the trash.
Yes, I did. Guilty as charged.
Quote: kewljBut even with that being the nature of our relationship, I would never consider stealing from him. No author deserves that, and that's what accepting a pirated copy amounts to.
Which is just another reason why you are respected by many people who have never met you and probably never will.
Quote: BozWhich is just another reason why you are respected by many people who have never met you and probably never will.
Thank you for the kind sentiment Boz.
Quote: kewljHe doesn't seem to be much of a fan of mine as well, having singled me out in a number of post and blogs. I am a lowly card counter that he seems to despise.
I am disappointed to read this.
Your background and what you've accomplished is pretty damn incredible, and you've done it with grace and class.
Quote: Dicenor33There is only one question, why not to reprint if the book is so popular?
Ever hear of copywriting laws?
Quote: HowManyI am disappointed to read this.
Your background and what you've accomplished is pretty damn incredible, and you've done it with grace and class.
Wow, thank you. With phrases like "grace and class" and "respected" from Boz before this, I am feeling alot of love from this site. Quite a contrast from one of the blackjack sites that I have all but been run off of (along with many other professional type AP's), where my contributions, thoughts, opinions and sharing of my experiences are much less appreciated. They use a whole 'different' set of adjectives to describe me. lol.
Anyway, I should clarify, that while Mr Grosjean has singled me out to make comments about on both his blog and BJ21, I don't think it is anything personal in his eyes. I have had conversations with him in several chat rooms on other sites and he has been mostly pleasant. I am just a fairly visible card counter because I participate a number of places, so somewhat of an easy target, representative of card counters for him to voice his opinion about. As many of you that have read his work, know, he likens card counters to the bottom of the AP evolutionary chain, comparing us to "salamanders" crawling out from the sea.
Mr Grosjean is not alone in his disdain for card counters in the AP community. The disdain seems to be that we have not 'evolved' up the AP ladder. Some of these folks either fail to realize or fail to accept that some of us choose and even enjoy using this age old elementary technique to gain a slight advantage.
wouldn't be the author or immediate heirs be interested to make an extra dough?Quote: IbeatyouracesEver hear of copywriting laws?
Quote: Dicenor33wouldn't be the author or immediate heirs be interested to make an extra dough?
It was sold only on his site in very limited quantities. It supposedly even got to the point where you needed permission to buy it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIt supposedly even got to the point where you needed permission to buy it.
That's true.
Quote: WizardThat's true.
We got ours before then, so we got lucky :-)
Quote: IbeatyouracesWe got ours before then, so we got lucky :-)
I got the original book off the shelf at Huntington Press before approval was required. For Exhibit CAA Grosjean was nice enough to approve me.
