Updated Survey!

As i saw , the survey for blackjack is updated! wooow!! im going to vegas in 1 month
1st i cant see hard rock on the list , do they still have that 25$ low edge?

2nd i have 2.000$ bankroll , i know the ROR is huge but i dont care , i plan to play my best with that
people say never count 8 decks... is it true? some 8 decks on the list have low house edge. if i backcount or i know some places no mid-shoe entry , if i see a hot deck while im playing would it be good to count? should i try to sit at these 8 decks? (im staying at TI and encore , palazzo have so low buy ins)

3rd , i know avoid 6:5 AT ALL COSTS !!! but if i want to relax with 100$ in a pool , would it be so bad to play poolside blackjack? just to win 20-30 dollars for fun...

4th.. i play a lot of poker , and will play poker tournaments (50-100$ buyin) to keep me busy for some hours :)) how would you manage 2k$ bankroll for card counting , poker tournaments and a bit of craps? just put a limit 150-200 $ for them per day?

thanks a lot :) if someone can answer these questions i would be glad :) ill hit the forums often !! great site!!!

i could hit downtown (golden gate 3:2 blackjacks) etc , should i stay downtown first time? i know a lot about vegas
if i find a downtown hotel like 200$ cheaper than TI and book it , will i spend more than 200$ on cabs hitting the strip? Thanks :D

Downtown will probably be cheaper for hotels/etc/all around. They do have decent 3/2 games, but most of their DD downtown is NDAS, which makes it a required TC +2 before upping your bet. They can also be sweaty to anything over the standard 1-8 spread. There's a lot of good games to play, but I want to re-iterate (as you already pointed out) your RoR is pretty high on a 2k bankroll. If you're playing $5-$50 that's still low, but not too shabby. However most people go to vegas and try to play quarter games/etc with $2k and don't realize just how improbable a victory is with such a short bankroll.

You don't have to spend money on cabs. There's a $2 bus you can take from the airport to the strip/downtown. It'll take longer for sure, but cabs pretty much are rip offs. Your other option, if you can get a deal or find it cheap, would be to rent a car. However, if you know you're going to stay downtown and mostly be downtown, I wouldn't worry about it. If you want to venture up to the strip just catch the Deuce (name of the bus) for $2.

I haven't used Uber in vegas, but it could certainly be worth looking in to.


Best of luck my friend.

Quote: gzalos

As i saw , the survey for blackjack is updated! wooow!! im going to vegas in 1 month
1st i cant see hard rock on the list , do they still have that 25$ low edge?

2nd i have 2.000$ bankroll , i know the ROR is huge but i dont care , i plan to play my best with that
people say never count 8 decks... is it true? some 8 decks on the list have low house edge. if i backcount or i know some places no mid-shoe entry , if i see a hot deck while im playing would it be good to count? should i try to sit at these 8 decks? (im staying at TI and encore , palazzo have so low buy ins)

3rd , i know avoid 6:5 AT ALL COSTS !!! but if i want to relax with 100$ in a pool , would it be so bad to play poolside blackjack? just to win 20-30 dollars for fun...

4th.. i play a lot of poker , and will play poker tournaments (50-100$ buyin) to keep me busy for some hours :)) how would you manage 2k$ bankroll for card counting , poker tournaments and a bit of craps? just put a limit 150-200 $ for them per day?

thanks a lot :) if someone can answer these questions i would be glad :) ill hit the forums often !! great site!!!

Welcome to the forum.....
I'll answer #3.... Of course you can use $100 at a poor odds BJ game if you want to relax at a pool... Understand that you are most likely to lose the $100....

You say you will count.... but if you don't tell us what spread you will be using how can anyone tell what your EV will be.... If you spread 1-16 on a quarter table with a $2000 bankroll.... well... good luck....

Well the spread would be 10-50 $ i think.... and stop if count is normal and lost 200-300 per day.... i could maximize time at tables

Quote: Romes

Downtown will probably be cheaper for hotels/etc/all around. They do have decent 3/2 games, but most of their DD downtown is NDAS, which makes it a required TC +2 before upping your bet. They can also be sweaty to anything over the standard 1-8 spread. There's a lot of good games to play, but I want to re-iterate (as you already pointed out) your RoR is pretty high on a 2k bankroll. If you're playing $5-$50 that's still low, but not too shabby. However most people go to vegas and try to play quarter games/etc with $2k and don't realize just how improbable a victory is with such a short bankroll.

You don't have to spend money on cabs. There's a $2 bus you can take from the airport to the strip/downtown. It'll take longer for sure, but cabs pretty much are rip offs. Your other option, if you can get a deal or find it cheap, would be to rent a car. However, if you know you're going to stay downtown and mostly be downtown, I wouldn't worry about it. If you want to venture up to the strip just catch the Deuce (name of the bus) for $2.

I haven't used Uber in vegas, but it could certainly be worth looking in to.


Best of luck my friend.

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what do you think then? except poker that im spending a lot of time (like 80% of my gambling time is poker) , would you keep playing blackjack 10-50$ spread ? only 3/2 yes but i mentioned 8 decks... are they worth playing if they have low house edge? or i cant even catch a high count there? if i could play on strip i would stay on strip too... thats why i have to choose between TI and sth like California / Nugget / The D

(btw sorry for these replies , cant understand how reply and quote works ;p )

You're just missing an end quote [ / q ] after my quote it seems...

Anyways, the difference between 6 decks and 8 decks is .02%. There is basically no difference and it's a common misconception that 8 decks is some horrid thing. The only reason 8 decks seems to be not so good is most places that employ 8 decks also employ terrible rules to follow. If you can find a decent 8 deck game (S17, DA2, DAS, etc) then that would certainly be worth playing. Simply plug in the house rules to the Wizard's house edge calculator and you can see the differences: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

Or, you can see the rule variations page the wizard has on one of his apendixes. Or most convenient, you can check out my 3 articles in the Articles tab of the site which details alllll of this information (and links all of the things mentioned above).

https://wizardofvegas.com/article/

If you are a good poker player, cash games are much better. If you're not good or just learning, tournaments are better

For blackjack, if you visit Las Vegas four days per year, just focus on EV and don't worry about anything else. Get your bets down when you have the edge and let the cards fall as they may. Eight decks is great, back count and jump in with black chips when you can. With a double deck, bet $5 and keep pressing whenever the count is rising. Up to $100+ if you can. If anyone gives you a hard time, who cares? You already got your bets down.

If you can get entry into the pool without a room key by buying in at a blackjack table, by all means play a 6-5 game. Buy in for $200 and play the minimum for 15 minutes, shouldn't cost more than $5.

Quote: gzalos

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what do you think then? except poker that im spending a lot of time (like 80% of my gambling time is poker) , would you keep playing blackjack 10-50$ spread ? only 3/2 yes but i mentioned 8 decks... are they worth playing if they have low house edge? or i cant even catch a high count there? if i could play on strip i would stay on strip too... thats why i have to choose between TI and sth like California / Nugget / The D

(btw sorry for these replies , cant understand how reply and quote works ;p )

gzalos,

Welcome to the forum. If you scroll up and hit the "edit" button on your original post I'm quoting, you'll see where I inserted a "[ /q]" between brackets at the end of Romes' reply to you. That's all that was missing, and it's usually inserted automatically when you use the "quote" button on someone's post. But you can add it in if it gets lost for some reason.

alright TomG ! thanks for the great answers
should i be worried at least if i get caught? can i just walk away without saying anything or people will block my way? im going for fun not causing mess and end up verbal fighting with managers .... yes at the poolside 6:5 , how many times im gonna get dealt bj? if other rules are good , id prefer 6:5 ... even losing 30-40 at all who cares :D

Why does no one fight against 6:5 Blackjack?
Major destinations institute it, and you just walk away? Really?
I play BJ, I love BJ.
I am no where near a casino, I can not make much difference.
Is everyone just 'counting' on free market forces to kill this beast?
No organized opposition, IMO the beast just grows.
Who want's to tell the players/ploppies that they are in a REALLY BAD GAME?
Why don't you want to?

Who wants to pay some college age kids to stand on the street outside the 'store' and warn of playing 6:5 instead of 3:2? Wearing Placards? Who wants to distribute info inside the 'stores'?
The Wiz asked for new project ideas, response was feeble.
Think about this, maybe someone, or a lot of ones, could make a difference.
Just a thought..... But I would contribute to a legitimate fund, yes, I would.

Anyone?

Quote: gzalos

should i be worried at least if i get caught?

I never am. The biggest worry is that you're risking $100 for an EV of 75-cents. El Cortez might walk you out. Most any other places in Las Vegas the worst thing on your first time will be that they say you can't play blackjack (if they really want to make a point they'll take away any possible comps even from machines or poker). Then you just don't play blackjack there anymore. Most likely it will be friendly. Have a black and white chip ready to go, bet the $100 for yourself and $1 for the dealer and you'll have a better chance of them letting you take a shot after you've seen a lot of small cards leave the shoe

For the poolside 6-5 game, I'm guessing $15 minimum. You could lose seven hands in a row ... or win that many in a row. But the Expected Value is only about 30-cents per hand.

Quote: TomG

I never am. The biggest worry is that you're risking $100 for an EV of 75-cents. El Cortez might walk you out. Most any other places in Las Vegas the worst thing on your first time will be that they say you can't play blackjack (if they really want to make a point they'll take away any possible comps even from machines or poker). Then you just don't play blackjack there anymore. Most likely it will be friendly. Have a black and white chip ready to go, bet the $100 for yourself and $1 for the dealer and you'll have a better chance of them letting you take a shot after you've seen a lot of small cards leave the shoe

For the poolside 6-5 game, I'm guessing $15 minimum. You could lose seven hands in a row ... or win that many in a row. But the Expected Value is only about 30-cents per hand.

alright my friend thanks for all the answers
what should i study more? i know how to count , calculate the true count , which games to find from the survey , the spread and how to act when im kicked
i've read many books (bj bluebook , the worlds greatest bj etc.) what should i focus more now?

Quote: gzalos

...what should i focus more now?

There is ALWAYS something more to learn. Check out my 3 A to Z articles in the articles section of this site. I guarantee you find SEVERAL things to learn =).

Quote: gzalos

alright TomG ! thanks for the great answers
should i be worried at least if i get caught? can i just walk away without saying anything or people will block my way? im going for fun not causing mess and end up verbal fighting with managers .... yes at the poolside 6:5 , how many times im gonna get dealt bj? if other rules are good , id prefer 6:5 ... even losing 30-40 at all who cares :D

Then why not just lay in the pool and order drinks and spend $20 on a couple? You won't get any heat at a poolside 6-5 game, I can 'almost' assure you. In doing your research you'd see a blackjack occurs about 1 in 20 hands. If you're flat betting $5 for pool drinks, getting a lousy slow 60 hands per hour, then you're losing an extra ~$4.50/hour just for playing 6/5.

The normal 3/2 EV would be: EV = (60)*(5)*(-.5%) = 300*(-.005) = -$1.50/hour
At a 6/5 game the EV is: EV = (60)*(5)*(-1.89%) = 300 * (-.0189) = -$5.76/hour

*This is for a $5 flat bet... If it's $10 or $15 min then you can multiply these numbers by 2 or 3 respectively... You're paying for those "free" drinks...
*6/5 adds 1.39% to the house edge, nearly quadrupling it from .5% to 2% (https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/rule-variations/).

If in the end you just want to have a good time and play poolside blackjack, then just know you're not playing a good game and you're expected to lose... but past that take a basic strategy card with you and have a good time. If you want to play break even or make any money, then you have a LOT of work to do. I'd recommend the basic strategy card and a good vacation =).

Thanks Romes! everything looks so easy now... 2 questions how you find such numbers on parenthesis , what they mean? i only understand the House edge there and the 5 which is my bet :P

and lastly , about getting caught , what if they say you violate the law of videotaping in here , we cant let you do this or do that we need your ID or you wont leave that place

what if i get forced so much? i hope they say flat bet , not walk without touching anyone like i escape a prison or something :P

Quote: gzalos

Thanks Romes! everything looks so easy now... 2 questions how you find such numbers on parenthesis , what they mean? i only understand the House edge there and the 5 which is my bet :P

and lastly , about getting caught , what if they say you violate the law of videotaping in here , we cant let you do this or do that we need your ID or you wont leave that place

what if i get forced so much? i hope they say flat bet , not walk without touching anyone like i escape a prison or something :P

1) At a 6/5 game the EV is: EV = (60)*(5)*(-1.89%) = 300 * (-.0189) = -$5.76/hour

In this example, 60, is the number of hands you play per hour. This is an estimates guess from my experience that a "pool game" would be quite a bit slower than someone playing 2 handed getting 100 hands per hour. I'd be willing to bet I'm fairly close to the actual hands per hour with 60 (though admittedly this is dealer and situationally dependent... what if you're playing heads up, etc?). Even so, 60 is the number of hands per hour (on average).

Next, the 5 is your average bet. Over the course of a generic hour, you'd need to find your average bet. So if the table min is 5, and you go from 5-50, your average bet might be something like $20. That's why in the example above I stated this was for a FLAT BET approach where you ALWAYS bet $5, which of course would make your average bet $5. If it's a $10 or $15 min table, this will certainly up the loss per hour.

Lastly, the -1.89% is the house edge. This can be found by plugging the rules for any game in to the wizard's house edge calculator. I assumed you were playing a "fairly average" .5% house edge game, then I added the 1.39% for the 6:5 rule change, resulting in the 1.89% house edge. When card counting (correctly) this is the "average house edge" which usually results in a POSITIVE number around 1%, since most blackjack players playing/counting correctly play at about a 1-2% advantage for the PLAYER.

So let's look at another example to be clear. Let's say it's a $15 min game, and you're betting anywhere from $15-$75, but mostly $15 bets, resulting in your average bet being about $30. Let's say you're getting a bit of a slower game, but there's only a couple people at the table with you, so you're getting an average of 70 hands per hour. Again, this is the "average" 6:5 poolside game resulting in a house edge of 1.89%. So what's your EV?

EV = (70)*(30)*(-1.89%) = 2100*(-.0189) = -39.69... This means you're, on average, going to LOSE $39.69 every hour you play that game. Still think those free drinks are worthwhile?

2) Getting "caught." Remeber, you're doing nothing illegal, unless you're using a device at a table to video... which I do not support/recommend. If you're just trying to play blackjack and count, then have fun trying to do so, but understand that at this point I don't think you have a winning game anyways. If you're playing red chips (where your big bet is $100 or under) you should get pretty much zero heat, unless maybe you're at El Cortez =p.

I do an entire write up on what to do if the casino confronts you in my 2nd Article, and I'd rather not type out that page here again, so check it out there lol.

Any other questions let me know, but I also break this math down A TON MORE in my 3 A to Z articles you can find in the Articles section of this site.

"how many times im gonna get dealt bj?"

One in every 22 hands ! which means 3 to 5 times per hour !

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Why does no one fight against 6:5 Blackjack?
Major destinations institute it, and you just walk away? Really?
I play BJ, I love BJ.
I am no where near a casino, I can not make much difference.
Is everyone just 'counting' on free market forces to kill this beast?
No organized opposition, IMO the beast just grows.
Who want's to tell the players/ploppies that they are in a REALLY BAD GAME?
Why don't you want to?

Who wants to pay some college age kids to stand on the street outside the 'store' and warn of playing 6:5 instead of 3:2? Wearing Placards? Who wants to distribute info inside the 'stores'?
The Wiz asked for new project ideas, response was feeble.
Think about this, maybe someone, or a lot of ones, could make a difference.
Just a thought..... But I would contribute to a legitimate fund, yes, I would.

Anyone?

Because it's either low limit 6/5 BJ or at least twice than minimum at full price. Yeah I know, think what it cost in the long run. Except average Blackjack Bob, just wants to play a few hours.
Even so called knowledgeable blackjack players only live for the current sessions. Most would never willing play no peek and lose double down or split bets . OMG, how unfair they will tell you.

Well, no peek cost you 0.11%. Hit soft 17 cost you 0.22%. Where was the moaning and groaning about that change. Barely a whimper.
As a friend of mine is always saying, " They are sheep, born to be sheared "
Plus you need those chumps so casinos will deal a 3/2 game you might be able to beat.
Or in the words of a real genius, who died on Christmas day, " Never smarten up a chump"

Quote: ZenMasterFlash

One in every 22 hands.

In a six-deck game, blackjack occurs with frequency 1-in-21.1, not 1-in-22. However, if you exclude bj/bj ties, then 1-in-22 is approximately correct.