Does the exact spread matter to security?

While adjusting our unit with our bankroll growing, my playing partner and have been trying to come up with a scheme that didn't require us to be doing too much math at the table. Something I've been wondering about is whether it really makes a difference if you're spreading 1-10, or 1-12 or 1-15. Is the pit or surveillance paying enough attention where they can tell the difference? Or is it purely a 'feel' kind of thing where they simply see your bets vary quite a bit?

From what I have seen come across my desk, any large variation of the bet will be noticed. Surveillance will monitor the play and determine if the bet ramping is tied to the count. You can toss a few random changes in the mix but do not expect that to necessarily work as camouflage. So to answer your question, no the degree of spread 1-10, 1-12, or 1-15 does not matter quite so much as the fact that there is a large spread being done. The others who work surveillance here may disagree and I am only offering an opinion based on the audits I have conducted on our Surveillance department.

So if i spread 1-4 with cover play. They would probably not be worried?

Quote: jjjoooggg

So if i spread 1-4 with cover play. They would probably not be worried?

In a shoe game you should be under their radar and you should not need cover play. If somehow that 1-4 spread could get you to break even, cover play will surely take it's toll. What cover plays are you considering?

A small spread like that would decrease the risk of appearing on the radar.

If i am playing double deck? With 1-4 spread with cover play?

Quote: jjjoooggg

If i am playing double deck? With 1-4 spread with cover play?

Double deck games are watched more closely than shoe games and the rules may not be quite as good. I like to spread 1-8 but not before assessing the heat level as best I can. It can vary widely from casino to casino and even from pit to pit.

I suggest playing with as few other players as you can, heads up if possible. If you play full tables, that 1-4 spread may not be enough. It's not difficult to spot a card counter so perhaps some cover play is in order. It doesn't have to be all misplays. It's how you handle yourself, how you interact with other players, the dealer, etc. In other words your "act".

Don't overlook a decent shoe game in favor of a mediocre double deck. Good cards to you!

Quote: 1BB

It's how you handle yourself, how you interact with other players, the dealer, etc. In other words your "act".

Cards are cards, and money is money. Or, are you begging? Otherwise, some people are "acting" really sillily or stupidly here.

This reminds me of people who advise secrecy. You always have to ask yourself, "Who's the secrecy protecting?"

Quote: jjjoooggg

If i am playing double deck? With 1-4 spread with cover play?

I can not really say for sure on this. The place I audit does not offer any BJ except for the shoe games. I think they would be a bit more observant on dd games but not really qualified to say one way or the other. There are some surveillance staff who visit this site and they may be able to offer a bit more guidance. There are also many very qualified players on the site like 1BB (who posted above) who have played in a wide range of stores and have good general knowledge of what has piqued the interest of pit and surveillance staff.

You should probably avoid stating what cover plays you will be using. Figure you would not discuss the cover plays but thought it would be good to mention just in case.

Quote: DoubleOrNothing

Cards are cards, and money is money. Or, are you begging? Otherwise, some people are "acting" really sillily or stupidly here.

This reminds me of people who advise secrecy. You always have to ask yourself, "Who's the secrecy protecting?"

Just answering the guy's question. You? Not sure what you mean by the begging comment. Nothing here that hasn't been said before. Wasn't trying to act 'sillily' or stupidly. Thanks for your comments.

waasnoday, 1BB,
Great info. Thanks.