EUROPEAN BJ WITH 4 DECKS AND CSM
May 21st, 2015 at 12:04:56 PM
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Hi!, great website! I have been reading on other websites that the european
type of BJ, it's supposed to be played with 2 decks of cards. I have been
playing at a local casino which has a type of european, 6 decks with CSM
(continous shuffling machine) they let you surrender without a dealers ace
on any of your first two cards, let you double with any total even after
split, and just a card for each Ace if you get two. I am a little confused
because i've found two different tables on your website, one where i double
with some soft combinations and one where you just stand or hit when you have a soft combination.
Which table sould i consider to use ? Does this kind of game make the house edge
greater for the casino? I've been following the table that the game calculator gave me but
i'm having really a hard time winning. Does players can affect the table in
this kind of game(i know you always tell that it doesn't matter) but
sometimes it seems like some players are helping the dealer by making
mistakes. I would really apriciate your answer and thanks for your time!!
type of BJ, it's supposed to be played with 2 decks of cards. I have been
playing at a local casino which has a type of european, 6 decks with CSM
(continous shuffling machine) they let you surrender without a dealers ace
on any of your first two cards, let you double with any total even after
split, and just a card for each Ace if you get two. I am a little confused
because i've found two different tables on your website, one where i double
with some soft combinations and one where you just stand or hit when you have a soft combination.
Which table sould i consider to use ? Does this kind of game make the house edge
greater for the casino? I've been following the table that the game calculator gave me but
i'm having really a hard time winning. Does players can affect the table in
this kind of game(i know you always tell that it doesn't matter) but
sometimes it seems like some players are helping the dealer by making
mistakes. I would really apriciate your answer and thanks for your time!!
May 21st, 2015 at 12:54:41 PM
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You don't indicate whether the dealer hits or stand on soft-17 (A-6). This a very important rule.
Assuming it's H17 (which is rampant most places), trying to figure all of the rules from your paragraph above leaves me calculating a house edge of: ~.47%. That's actually not too bad. I counted Early Surrender against a 10, using a CSM. I hope you realize a couple things:
1) CSM's can't be counted (in general).
2) You should never expect to win money at this game. Sure, you're bound to have both lucky and unlucky days, but if the math worked out PERFECTLY (which it pretty much never does mind you) then you would NEVER win even ONCE because the game has a built in house advantage.
I used the Wizards house edge calculator: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/
and
I used the Wizards blackjack basic strategy calculator: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ (4 or more decks, Dealer Hits soft 17, DAS, Surrender 2 through 10 only, and No Peek (European Style)).
This will produce the basic strategy you should follow to 'minimize' (not erase) the house edge. Think of it this way... The house edge is about .47%. Whenever you play differently than the basic strategy chart from the link above, you're making the house edge larger.
Lastly, no, whatever anyone else does at the table does NOT affect you, in the long run. Tonight they might make you lose 5 bets, but tomorrow night they'll help you win 5 bets. They are mathematically just as likely to help you as hurt you. When they hit 15v5 and the next 2 cards are 10 then 10, did they take the dealers bust card? Well THIS time they did. What if the next 2 cards were 6 then 10? Then they took the dealers 21! ...but you'll never hear anyone praise their hit then. Overall, don't worry about what anyone else does as they're just as likely to help you as hurt you. The only bet they're truly hurting when playing incorrectly is their own, so who cares.
Good luck.
Assuming it's H17 (which is rampant most places), trying to figure all of the rules from your paragraph above leaves me calculating a house edge of: ~.47%. That's actually not too bad. I counted Early Surrender against a 10, using a CSM. I hope you realize a couple things:
1) CSM's can't be counted (in general).
2) You should never expect to win money at this game. Sure, you're bound to have both lucky and unlucky days, but if the math worked out PERFECTLY (which it pretty much never does mind you) then you would NEVER win even ONCE because the game has a built in house advantage.
I used the Wizards house edge calculator: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/
and
I used the Wizards blackjack basic strategy calculator: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ (4 or more decks, Dealer Hits soft 17, DAS, Surrender 2 through 10 only, and No Peek (European Style)).
This will produce the basic strategy you should follow to 'minimize' (not erase) the house edge. Think of it this way... The house edge is about .47%. Whenever you play differently than the basic strategy chart from the link above, you're making the house edge larger.
Lastly, no, whatever anyone else does at the table does NOT affect you, in the long run. Tonight they might make you lose 5 bets, but tomorrow night they'll help you win 5 bets. They are mathematically just as likely to help you as hurt you. When they hit 15v5 and the next 2 cards are 10 then 10, did they take the dealers bust card? Well THIS time they did. What if the next 2 cards were 6 then 10? Then they took the dealers 21! ...but you'll never hear anyone praise their hit then. Overall, don't worry about what anyone else does as they're just as likely to help you as hurt you. The only bet they're truly hurting when playing incorrectly is their own, so who cares.
Good luck.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
May 21st, 2015 at 3:17:30 PM
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In the UK most casinos don't hit soft 17 (DDAS, re-split Aces, any 2-card double, multiple re-splits) and they also don't allow surrender.
Technically they are allowed some options provided they advertise them (a) Hit or Stand soft 17 (b) Double 9-11 or any two cards (c) Re-Split Aces (d) 1+ decks (e) Peek (f) restriction on pairs split. I think the rest of the rules are fixed (see http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/rules%20of%20casino%20games%20in%20great%20britain%20-%20june%202011.pdf p18 ff.
Some use 4 or 6-deck shoes but I think most CSMs use 6-decks. Strangely, when I did simulations, this came out at about .47% with a CSM, slightly better than .49% for a 6 deck shoe. The wizard strategy applies (it's the same as infinite decks except double A4 vs 4).
Technically they are allowed some options provided they advertise them (a) Hit or Stand soft 17 (b) Double 9-11 or any two cards (c) Re-Split Aces (d) 1+ decks (e) Peek (f) restriction on pairs split. I think the rest of the rules are fixed (see http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/rules%20of%20casino%20games%20in%20great%20britain%20-%20june%202011.pdf p18 ff.
Some use 4 or 6-deck shoes but I think most CSMs use 6-decks. Strangely, when I did simulations, this came out at about .47% with a CSM, slightly better than .49% for a 6 deck shoe. The wizard strategy applies (it's the same as infinite decks except double A4 vs 4).
