Count DD vs 6D

Been lurking awhile now. I would like some advice since DD is pitch game. What are your method for counting?? (Hi-Lo). For 6-8D, I start my count after the 2nd card comes out for each players efficiently. For DD, I'm counting mine and the dealer up card then wait completely after the dealer play their hand and show other player hands by flipping over their card which then I count again.

Is this even efficient? It's still weird for me because I can't see other players hand until the end.

I'm trying seek a more efficient way for pitch game. I read through quite a few of these threads here but nothing i've come across for DD methods. Thank you!!

What you're doing is what you're supposed to do. Unless you want to turn on the X-ray vision, you play with the information that you see. You can probably sneak a peak sometimes. Players often show their cards when they complain about 16s or something similar.

On a Pitch and Shoe game I simply use the Zen Count. (Even though Hi-Lo is simple and as powerful as other counts..most dealers know this simple count and it's easier to catch up on.) But sometimes I use K.O. for the hell of it on a Shoe Game.

But I move my eyes quickly as the cards are dealt. Some counters make the mistake of starring at each card slowly or obviously. But when you peek as the cards come out..the dealer's eyes are also focused on the cards coming out..and not on you. Plus when you're playing at a shoe game EVERYONE stares at each others hands when they're dealt out. Thus blending you in as another anxious looking gamble looking to hook a high hand!

I guess you could say I'm just stating the obvious...but I'm just here to help. (If any.)

Thank you. I usually do quick two card cancel but i usually don't play pitch game because the pen most times was around 55% at my local casino. I found a place that has much better pen so I wanted to improved.

On shoe games (face up), I USED to start counting as soon as first base got his second up-card. Then I'd count each spot as either +2, +1, 0, -1, -2, using HiLo. Later on, I decided that takes too much effort. So I would wait until EVERYONE got their two cards, then I'd basically do the same thing but cross-cancel the entire table. One guy has a TT, next guy has 6,7, next guy has 8,9, next has A,7 and last player has 4,6, dealer shows a 3 up. TT cancels with 4,6. A7 cancels with 6,7. 8,9 is invisible. Just count the dealer's 3 up as +1 and you're done.


For pitch games, I'd try to use as much info as I could, sneaking peaks whenever possible, but became difficult to remember if I had counted those cards or not. So now, I just only count a card if it is either A) My card or B) Face up on the table. If someone puts their 4,7 out there to double-down, then I count it. If I see a player has 4,7 doesn't double and gets a card, I don't coount the 4,7....only count whatever is shown face up.


In reality, sneaking peaks and getting the extra 2 cards of info on a DD game isn't going to help you that much. And unless you're playing an SD game with a tthree or tarzan count, that info is essentially worthless, since you're only using that info for PE (Playing Efficiency), not BC (Betting Correlation).

Overcome, adapt, improvise. An important concept in learning to count is to modify your technique by changing your methods to find what works for you. Be flexible. A little trick I developed: Let's say you are sitting in the third position of a game and you've already fully counted your hand and the first and second hands. You can lay your left hand on the felt or on your lap and gently press the thumb, index and middle finger down. It's easy to do and maintain no matter the distraction. This technique is not detectable and reminds you that only the hands to your left have not been counted. Another technique: Imagine the finger tips of your left hand starting with the thumb are running count 1-5, and let's say the rc is 4. You place the tip of your ring finger onto the fleshy part of the thumb opposite the thumb nail. If your hand is in your lap or even on the table it looks natural (don't do this in the open often). No matter the distraction you'll know the count. The finger "tip" that is being touched indicates the count. (Don't run your thumb back and forth against the tops of your fingers as the count changes, of course.) For minus counts I place the tip of the thumb behind the first knuckle from the end of the finger. For -1 the tip of the index finger behind the first knuckle fom the end of the thumb is used.

I don't use these and other techniques all the time. There are moments when their implementation just comes automatically, and they are smooth and seemless.

Sometimes I count each card as I see it, sometimes I'll wait until the first two cards have been delt to all the players. It depends on my mood, how relaxed I am, the pace of the game--many things. We bring an arsenal of techniques and knowledge to the game. Some days we're more on than others.

I use Hi-Opt 1 with an ace side count. If the count is +6 with 7 aces out that's 67, the summer of love. If the count is +1 with 2 aces out, it's the old 1-2. 69 we landed on the moon. 46 is is the year the Flamingo opened. Hey, a Vegas reference.

A note about insurance in a DD game: If there are more than 4 10-value cards out in the first 20 cards, then the insurance bet isn't profitable. I remember the line from the nursery rhyme "4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie". You can also recite 1 in 11, 2 in 14, 3 in 17, 4 in 20... Sometimes I go over index tables in my head. Thinking about blackjack...

Quote: RS

On shoe games (face up), I USED to start counting as soon as first base got his second up-card. Then I'd count each spot as either +2, +1, 0, -1, -2, using HiLo. Later on, I decided that takes too much effort. So I would wait until EVERYONE got their two cards, then I'd basically do the same thing but cross-cancel the entire table. One guy has a TT, next guy has 6,7, next guy has 8,9, next has A,7 and last player has 4,6, dealer shows a 3 up. TT cancels with 4,6. A7 cancels with 6,7. 8,9 is invisible. Just count the dealer's 3 up as +1 and you're done.


For pitch games, I'd try to use as much info as I could, sneaking peaks whenever possible, but became difficult to remember if I had counted those cards or not. So now, I just only count a card if it is either A) My card or B) Face up on the table. If someone puts their 4,7 out there to double-down, then I count it. If I see a player has 4,7 doesn't double and gets a card, I don't coount the 4,7....only count whatever is shown face up.


In reality, sneaking peaks and getting the extra 2 cards of info on a DD game isn't going to help you that much. And unless you're playing an SD game with a tthree or tarzan count, that info is essentially worthless, since you're only using that info for PE (Playing Efficiency), not BC (Betting Correlation).

+1
This, 100%, would have been my exact response as well.

I do the same as rs and romes, and add if a neighbor is exposing their cards I will glance at them if an index play is close (like insurance) and use that information.

Quote: RS

On shoe games (face up), I USED to start counting as soon as first base got his second up-card. Then I'd count each spot as either +2, +1, 0, -1, -2, using HiLo. Later on, I decided that takes too much effort. So I would wait until EVERYONE got their two cards, then I'd basically do the same thing but cross-cancel the entire table. One guy has a TT, next guy has 6,7, next guy has 8,9, next has A,7 and last player has 4,6, dealer shows a 3 up. TT cancels with 4,6. A7 cancels with 6,7. 8,9 is invisible. Just count the dealer's 3 up as +1 and you're done.


For pitch games, I'd try to use as much info as I could, sneaking peaks whenever possible, but became difficult to remember if I had counted those cards or not. So now, I just only count a card if it is either A) My card or B) Face up on the table. If someone puts their 4,7 out there to double-down, then I count it. If I see a player has 4,7 doesn't double and gets a card, I don't coount the 4,7....only count whatever is shown face up.


In reality, sneaking peaks and getting the extra 2 cards of info on a DD game isn't going to help you that much. And unless you're playing an SD game with a tthree or tarzan count, that info is essentially worthless, since you're only using that info for PE (Playing Efficiency), not BC (Betting Correlation).

I do cross-cancel the entire table a bit here and there but I most likely not as efficient yet. Got to keep on practicing. Thanks for the advices, much appreciated!! Keep em coming if other people have other methods to chim in.

Also GreasyJohn, i really like the thumb rule. I'll definitely give it a try in the casino environment next time.

Quote: RS

For pitch games, I'd try to use as much info as I could, sneaking peaks whenever possible, but became difficult to remember if I had counted those cards or not. So now, I just only count a card if it is either A) My card or B) Face up on the table. If someone puts their 4,7 out there to double-down, then I count it. If I see a player has 4,7 doesn't double and gets a card, I don't coount the 4,7....only count whatever is shown face up.

Exactly what I do at double deck as well. Easiest way for me to make sure I'm not double-counting anything I might have seen