Dr. Ed Thorp on To Tell the Truth (1964)
While amusing, I also found it interesting that one of the judges clearly was aggravated and annoyed at learning casinos wouldn't let winning players play. I won't spoil too much more, but I think it's entertaining none the less.
1) Do you think they should bring this show back? I think it has an interesting premise and would be entertaining.
2) For the very few of you whom don't know what Dr. Thorp looks like, did you know which one he was?
3) If you have any other 'old' video of talk shows, game shoes, etc, about any popular blackjack figure, please feel free to post them!
It was also great to see Tom Poston when he was so young. If you aren't familiar with him, he was on both of Bob Newhart's television shows.
Quote: Romes1) Do you think they should bring this show back? I think it has an interesting premise and would be entertaining.
2) For the very few of you whom don't know what Dr. Thorp looks like, did you know which one he was?
3) If you have any other 'old' video of talk shows, game shoes, etc, about any popular blackjack figure, please feel free to post them!
1] since they brought back 'amateur hour' type shows, any popular show of yesteryear is possible. Man, people watched the crap out of all these old shows, believe me!
2] I did guess correctly, but had my doubts when IIRC he acted dumb at one point? that was devious! need to watch again
3] it seems you-tube is full of this now, but probably not much about BJ
Quote: darkozThanks for posting.
It was also great to see Tom Poston when he was so young. If you aren't familiar with him, he was on both of Bob Newhart's television shows.
He married Suzanne Pleshette.
Quote: Romes1) Do you think they should bring this show back? I think it has an interesting premise and would be entertaining.
It was brought back - first, in syndication, throughout the 1970s; originally, Garry Moore hosted (with, IIRC, all of the panelists except Tom Poston returning), but Joe Garagiola took over for a year around 1977; the show took a two-year break before coming back for a couple of years with Robin Ward hosting; the other time was in the early 1990s on NBC, with Gordon Elliott, Lynn Swann, and Alex Trebek hosting.
There was a time when everybody was familar with the phrase, "Will the real ______ please stand up?"
Quote: Romes3) If you have any other 'old' video of talk shows, game shoes, etc, about any popular blackjack figure, please feel free to post them!
There was a man (I don't think it was Thorp) who was on the original I've Got a Secret a few years earlier, whose secret was that he had developed a method for winning at blackjack - i.e. he was the first known card counter, or at least the first one to go public. (They "put him to the test" by having him teach panelist Henry Morgan the method, then sending them off to (I think) the Bahamas with $100.)
Actually Thorp was quite famous at the time and his book was on the NY Times Best Seller List for eons. It was this man they should have statutes of in Las Vegas....he caused a sudden shortage of Blackjack Dealers. He had people flocking to Vegas with his book in their hand. They all bought the book and practiced at home and then got to the casino and "The Buzz" hit them. Real difference between the basement recreation room at home and a real casino's "buzz" of music, bells and belles.
Quote: RomesI found this interesting video of Dr. Edward Thorp ("father of card counting" and author of Beat The Dealer,!
I always have to correct this. Thorp was
NOT NOT NOT the inventor of card
counting. It was around for decades
before he came on the scene. He interviewed
counters for his book and they begged
him not to write it because it would destroy
their livlihood, which it did.
Thorp proved the math behind counting and
showed how it worked in a practical manner.
He put it on the map, he didn't invent it.
Quote: Romes1) Do you think they should bring this show back? I think it has an interesting premise and would be entertaining.
2) For the very few of you whom don't know what Dr. Thorp looks like, did you know which one he was?
3) If you have any other 'old' video of talk shows, game shoes, etc, about any popular blackjack figure, please feel free to post them!
That was a great watch, thanks for posting.
I had only seen older pictures of Dr. Thorp, but I was able to correctly identify him. If I had never seen a picture of him, I think I would have either voted 1 or 3, but there wasn't convincing evidence.
Quote: EvenBobI always have to correct this. Thorp was
NOT NOT NOT the inventor of card
counting. ...
I almost wrote more in there, but didn't want to detract from the video itself. That's why I put "father of card counting" in quotes. He actually reviewed a publication in the mathematical journals that had hand calculated basic strategy for 'most' situations by 4 other mathematicians. He does in fact give them their credit in his book too. He tried it out, and believed he could improve on it by using the IBM computer at MIT to do tons more calculations and thus get much more accurate conversions.
Agreed he definitely did not invent it, however he did make a 'few' modifications to the original publication released in the math journals based off of the results in his much more broad/powerful testing.
...EB, we have something in common <3; I'm often correcting people that Thorp didn't invent card counting as well ;).
Quote: AcesAndEightsThat was a great watch, thanks for posting.
I had only seen older pictures of Dr. Thorp, but I was able to correctly identify him. If I had never seen a picture of him, I think I would have either voted 1 or 3, but there wasn't convincing evidence.
Glad you enjoyed it as I did. Even when it started I saw #1 and was like "um, that looks like a superman version of him?" lol. Made a lot more sense when I saw him third.
Quote: RomesThat's why I put "father of card counting" .
That means he's the one who came up
with it, and he didn't. People like to
say Edison is the father of the light bulb,
when he wasn't. He bought the patent
from the guy who invented it and made
it better. Edison did that a lot, bought
other peoples patents and made them
work better.
Quote: EvenBobThat means he's the one who came up
with it, and he didn't. People like to
say Edison is the father of the light bulb,
when he wasn't. He bought the patent
from the guy who invented it and made
it better. Edison did that a lot, bought
other peoples patents and made them
work better.
Technically he did invent the basic strategy card almost everyone used for a period of time. As I mentioned the original paper in the mathematical journals were essentially correct, but they were hand done calculations that didn't have the raw power of a computer and millions of simulated hands behind them. Thus, in the very very close scenario situations (12v4, 16v10, etc) they did in fact get a few of them wrong. The "idea" was birthed with them, at least as far as we know of... Who's to say they didn't get the idea from some ploppy that didn't know anything about math even? We credit them with the idea and the original math. We credit Thorp with the confirmation, the updated number corrections, and bringing it to light in the eyes of everyone in society. So while he isn't responsible for the idea, he can absolutely still be thought of as the "father of card counting." ;)
I give EB my love and he tries to bait me in to an argument where we're essentially saying the same thing =(.
TTtT LIST of GUESTS
Quote: Romesabsolutely still be thought of as the "father of card counting." ;)
No, he can't, and I'm not trying to 'bait'
you. He is simply not the father of card
counting. That soul is lost to the mists
of the past. Thorp might rightly be
called the father of MODERN counting,
but he is in no way is the one who dreamed
it up. This is the argument Zuckerburg
got into with the TwinkleToes Twins, who
invented FB. Z finally admitted it wasn't him,
he just improved it greatly. Ray Croc isn't
the 'father' on McDonalds, he bought the
franchise and made it take off.
The first time I was told about Blackjack, having never seen it, it took me (based on UK rules, infinite decks and a calculator) about eight hours to work out the strategy. This also gives you a good feeling for close decisions and clearcut things to do. I remember working through the upcards, seeing splitting nines interesting as you didn't do it vs a 7.Quote: Romes... hand done calculations ... close scenario situations (12v4, 16v10, etc) they did in fact get a few of them wrong. ...
Yes the two you mention are close, but infinite decks still gets them right. One of the things it can detect, if you look for it, are soft doubles (they weren't allowed in the UK at the time) and I think this was one of the discoveries.
Going onto the effect of removal, which leads to counting, then that is not so easy to work out by hand as the "divide by 13" doesn't apply.
Quote: EvenBobNo, he can't, and I'm not trying to 'bait'
you. He is simply not the father of card
counting. That soul is lost to the mists
of the past. Thorp might rightly be
called the father of MODERN counting,
but he is in no way is the one who dreamed
it up. This is the argument Zuckerburg
got into with the TwinkleToes Twins, who
invented FB. Z finally admitted it wasn't him,
he just improved it greatly. Ray Croc isn't
the 'father' on McDonalds, he bought the
franchise and made it take off.
He mightnot be the father of counting Bob but we really have no proof of the others and what strategies they were using.
Yes I know Jess Marcum Greasy John and I'm sure there's others that we'll never know about
Quote: HunterhillHe mightnot be the father of counting Bob but we really have no proof of the others
They're in his book! He interviewed them, what
more proof do you need.
I should have said we don't really know how accurate their strategies were.Quote: EvenBobThey're in his book! He interviewed them, what
more proof do you need.
Still a familiar phrase when you fill in "Slim Shady." :-)Quote: ThatDonGuyThere was a time when everybody was familar with the phrase, "Will the real ______ please stand up?"
like the father of soul(Ray Charles)? ? Certainly they didn't invent soul.
Anyways the Quotes were enough to indicate it's a title given as an example. Thorp is just made it popular.
Quote: RomesTechnically he did invent the basic strategy card almost everyone used for a period of time. As I mentioned the original paper in the mathematical journals were essentially correct, but they were hand done calculations that didn't have the raw power of a computer and millions of simulated hands behind them.
I'll vaguely go with that. The information was in the 1956 paper (The Optimum Strategy in Blackjack, Baldwin, Cantey, Maisel, McDermott), but it was arranged as a research paper, not as a practical, simple-to-use guide.
Thorp's contribution was verifying their math (with a computer) and reformatting it more usefully. The "Four Horsemen" did a lot of the ground work, however.
Quote: Dieter...The information was in the 1956 paper (The Optimum Strategy in Blackjack, Baldwin, Cantey, Maisel, McDermott), but it was arranged as a research paper, not as a practical, simple-to-use guide.
You can read that paper here:
http://blackjack-square.com/_site/images/random/Baldwin_OptimalStrategyBlackjack.pdf
Quote: EdCollinsYou can read that paper here:
http://blackjack-square.com/_site/images/random/Baldwin_OptimalStrategyBlackjack.pdf
Have a copy downloaded. :)
Quote: ThatDonGuyThere was a man (I don't think it was Thorp) who was on the original I've Got a Secret a few years earlier, whose secret was that he had developed a method for winning at blackjack - i.e. he was the first known card counter, or at least the first one to go public. (They "put him to the test" by having him teach panelist Henry Morgan the method, then sending them off to (I think) the Bahamas with $100.)
I'm not one that usually brings up old threads, but I just watched this episode on Buzzr and it is the same Edward Thorp (the one that wrote "Beat the dealer"). Have not been able to dig up any videos of it on YouTube though.
