Host/Backoff Thresholds in Vegas
Was hoping some of the Vegas experts could answer some questions I have regarding casinos on the Strip.
What sort of action is needed to get
1) Consistent food comps
2) Consistent Hotel Comps
3) A host
4) Free flights
When it comes to double deck, what sort of action is likely to get you backed off?
How will casinos react to:
1) Spread 1-8 with a $25 unit (max bet $200)
2) Spread 1-8 with a $50 unit (max bet $400)
3) Spread 1-4 with a $50 unit (max bet $200)
Quote: DonutsHi all,
Was hoping some of the Vegas experts could answer some questions I have regarding casinos on the Strip.
What sort of action is needed to get
1) Consistent food comps
2) Consistent Hotel Comps
3) A host
4) Free flights
When it comes to double deck, what sort of action is likely to get you backed off?
How will casinos react to:
1) Spread 1-8 with a $25 unit (max bet $200)
2) Spread 1-8 with a $50 unit (max bet $400)
3) Spread 1-4 with a $50 unit (max bet $200)
On the strip you can get consistent food and hotel by playing black chips. I think free flights are only for high rollers who bet thousands a hand.
IMO any 1-8 spread on a DD table on the strip would likely get you backed off if you play more than an hour or so. Off strip casinos are less sweaty on betting spreads. 1-4 spread would probably get you backed off at NYNY or SLS, should be okay at other strip casinos.
Quote: RSDon't play rated double deck in LV.
The reason I'm asking is my buddy and I went to Vegas last year and played a 1-10 True-1 spread with a $25 unit at a few DD games on the strip betting up to 3 spots of $125 as our max bet (Our spread was set up for a 6 deck wong game which was our intial plan before we actually got to Vegas, then we saw the DD and couldn't resist) . We played rated since we weren't sure if we'd ever be coming back to Vegas and we wanted the comps. We got some free food and a few hotel offers but nothing insane.
After our trip we asked a few resident experts and the unanimous reaction has been shock that we didn't get backed off given we played rated about 50 hours over the course of 3 days and won a significant amount of money for a $25 unit. We usually rotated properties if we were up over $1k at a pit and had fairly good acts but our play was undeniably obvious.
Quote: DonutsThe reason I'm asking is my buddy and I went to Vegas last year and played a 1-10 True-1 spread with a $25 unit at a few DD games on the strip betting up to 3 spots of $125 as our max bet (Our spread was set up for a 6 deck wong game which was our intial plan before we actually got to Vegas, then we saw the DD and couldn't resist) . We played rated since we weren't sure if we'd ever be coming back to Vegas and we wanted the comps. We got some free food and a few hotel offers but nothing insane.
After our trip we asked a few resident experts and the unanimous reaction has been shock that we didn't get backed off given we played rated about 50 hours over the course of 3 days and won a significant amount of money for a $25 unit. We usually rotated properties if we were up over $1k at a pit and had fairly good acts but our play was undeniably obvious.
Rs had me nervous there for a second cuz I played double deck rated. I didn't see any heat, but I guess you can never be sure with the eye in the sky. Anyway, I feel a lot better after hearing how you and your friend played.
Quote: AvincowRs had me nervous there for a second cuz I played double deck rated. I didn't see any heat, but I guess you can never be sure with the eye in the sky. Anyway, I feel a lot better after hearing how you and your friend played.
In another thread Kewlj mentioned playing rated is probably fine for DD if you're only hitting Vegas a few times a year. Also, $25 units aren't anything to write home about which is probably why we weren't monitored.
Quote: DonutsThe reason I'm asking is my buddy and I went to Vegas last year and played a 1-10 True-1 spread with a $25 unit at a few DD games on the strip betting up to 3 spots of $125 as our max bet (Our spread was set up for a 6 deck wong game which was our intial plan before we actually got to Vegas, then we saw the DD and couldn't resist) . We played rated since we weren't sure if we'd ever be coming back to Vegas and we wanted the comps. We got some free food and a few hotel offers but nothing insane.
After our trip we asked a few resident experts and the unanimous reaction has been shock that we didn't get backed off given we played rated about 50 hours over the course of 3 days and won a significant amount of money for a $25 unit. We usually rotated properties if we were up over $1k at a pit and had fairly good acts but our play was undeniably obvious.
If you rotated properties often enough, it is still possible to pull it off for your first trip. But don't be surprised that you get 86ed in the next trip even before you start your spread. They gave you some extra time to play maybe only because they wanted you to lose some money back and then 86 you in the negative swing. None of the LV casinos would tolerate 1-8 spread at DD games. Soon or later you will get a tap on the shoulder. It is just part of the game. If you play unrated and keep the session short in each casino, your bj career should last much longer.
Quote: KickassThey gave you some extra time to play maybe only because they wanted you to lose some money back and then 86 you in the negative swing.
Umm, do properties actually do that?
Do they not understand how EV works?
Quote: sc15Umm, do properties actually do that?
It is just based on my own experience. I honestly don't know much about how the surveillance operate. So far, I had a dozen 86s and 1 backroom experience.
Most of 86s happened in the slight negative swing after a decent win. The only exception was what happened in my backroom experience. In that instance, I felt the heat but
I continued to win. At the end, they seemed so angry and sent me to the backroom.
Quote:Do they not understand how EV works?
I doubt that they fully understand the math. A recreational counter like me at this level only earns about $40/hour EV. Why did they send three black suits watched my play behind the table?
(I was betting only $200 or $150 two hands only). LOL.
Quote: sc15Umm, do properties actually do that?
Do they not understand how EV works?
Casinos are amazingly bad at math considering the business they are in.
Quote: AcesAndEightsCasinos are amazingly bad at math considering the business they are in.
Even still, from the typical casino management standpoint, it makes more sense to kick em out right away.
"Why take the chance that he plays and wins? Just throw him out now!"
You're not going to get any praise for tossing someone on a losing streak, but you sure as hell are going to get grilled if you let them play and they win a bunch.
Quote: KickassIt is just based on my own experience. I honestly don't know much about how the surveillance operate. So far, I had a dozen 86s and 1 backroom experience.
Most of 86s happened in the slight negative swing after a decent win. The only exception was what happened in my backroom experience. In that instance, I felt the heat but
I continued to win. At the end, they seemed so angry and sent me to the backroom.
What did they say to you in the backroom?
I don't understand the point of backrooming these days. Are they hoping for a confession? Are they hoping that the counter will give them their money back? I guess the most they can get out of the backroom is your name so they can trespass you. is that the only reason?
Quote:I doubt that they fully understand the math. A recreational counter like me at this level only earns about $40/hour EV. Why did they send three black suits watched my play behind the table?
(I was betting only $200 or $150 two hands only). LOL.
So your spread is $25-$200?
Quote: AvincowWhat did they say to you in the backroom?
Read https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/15767-my-first-backroom-treatment/
Quote: DonutsHi all,
Was hoping some of the Vegas experts could answer some questions I have regarding casinos on the Strip.
What sort of action is needed to get
1) Consistent food comps
2) Consistent Hotel Comps
3) A host
4) Free flights
After less than 2 hours of relatively flat $100/300 play with a modest buy-in of about 3k, a host in Aria granted me a three-night weekend stay (Fri-Sun nights). This was my first time at that property (not sure if that helps or not).
