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Kickass
Kickass
Joined: Nov 12, 2013
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November 12th, 2013 at 4:20:19 PM permalink
Hi Everyone,

I have been lurking this forum for three years and I finally decided to become a member.
First of all, I want to thank Michael for his hard work and dedication to the gaming analysis and
sharing these valuable information with the public.

I am a recreational/part-time bj counter. Recently, I spread my actions with three casinos. I lost miserably
in the Casino A and moderately in Casino B. But I was extremely lucky in Casino C and my winnings
there was way above the EV. Therefore, I still could make some profits even though I lost in other two casinos.

Anyways, I know 86 was coming soon but there was nothing that I could do. On the last day, when the count was +10,
I got tapped on the shoulder. I had about $2K chips on the table. So that, I could not just leave. They informed me that
I am 86ed permanently and lured me to the backroom. When they wanted to shut the door, I told them that I would call my
lawyer if they shut the door. So that, the door was remained open. Then they asked me to sign some trespassing agreement and
I refused to sign. At last they wanted to use the digital camera to take a detailed picture of me and I refused that also. After 20 minutes of the talk about trespassing and citation in the future, they finally released me and I could cash out at cage.

The Casino C is filled with amateur counters and those people make tons of mistakes. I even saw one of them received a loss rebate from a host. I believe that Casino C really loves counters but they just don't like the ones that are winning.
Leave Katie alone. Rasul: Or what? Or I come back and break your F** legs
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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November 12th, 2013 at 4:22:35 PM permalink
Was this in Vegas?
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Kickass
Kickass
Joined: Nov 12, 2013
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November 12th, 2013 at 4:27:11 PM permalink
No but I don't want to post the region name publicly because it is a small place.
If I am in Vegas, I would spread actions with 30 casinos without a player's card.
Leave Katie alone. Rasul: Or what? Or I come back and break your F** legs
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 12th, 2013 at 4:29:12 PM permalink
Thanks for the kind words. I'm not an attorney, but it is my understanding that if you broke no law then the casino had no right to detain you at all. Granted, I've heard worse stories, but this still seems actionable to me, assuming it happened in the U.S.. If you need Bob Nercesian's phone number, send me a Private Message.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Tomspur
Tomspur
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
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November 12th, 2013 at 4:31:43 PM permalink
Imagine how much manpower, surveillance operators and the like ws spent on getting one card counter off a table.......

That is why I'm saying, certain casino operators really have no clue about what they are doing. While this was going on and attention in the Surveillance room was diverted I bet they got hit by 3 hole card teams and a whole host of other things because they were so concerned with this one dude.....

If you don't want someones action, tap him on the shoulder, tell him to collect his chips and ask him nicely to cash out. In fact, give him a free buffet pass and tell him he can play any other gaming device or table on the property but BJ.

The counter will leave, enjoy his buffet and be done with it.

He may even play slots after the buffet if he has no self control :)

How hard can it really be????
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Kickass
Kickass
Joined: Nov 12, 2013
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November 12th, 2013 at 4:43:21 PM permalink
A polite 86 also happened to me. I shook hands with their managers in other casino and I was told not to play BJ anymore. I simply followed their rules because there are tons of opportunities out there.
I think that Casino C was hoping to kick me out when I lost some money back. But what happened was that my winning session rate was above 90%.
Leave Katie alone. Rasul: Or what? Or I come back and break your F** legs
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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November 12th, 2013 at 5:06:51 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm not an attorney, but it is my understanding that if you broke no law then the casino had no right to detain you at all.



He said they "lured" him into the back room, and never closed the door.

Seems to me he went voluntarily and was free to go whenever he wanted.

So, where's the beef?
"What, me worry?"
Tomspur
Tomspur
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
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November 12th, 2013 at 5:15:57 PM permalink
No back rooming of any type for AP's should be happening in my opinion, you should never have to be taken to a "backroom" for being an AP. If you cheated or broke some other rule I can understand but otherwise just ask them to leave and leave it alone.......

Why risk lawsuits and general unhappiness. You know whose side the law is on
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Kickass
Kickass
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November 12th, 2013 at 5:16:39 PM permalink
I told them that I wanted to cash out the chips and leave but they told me that they needed to talk to me first.
The meeting location happened to be their backroom. I did not try to run to cage and cash out. Did I voluntarily
go to their backroom if I know that? I don't think so. At that time, I was only concerned that my chips could be cashed out and
I did not have any backroom experience.
Leave Katie alone. Rasul: Or what? Or I come back and break your F** legs
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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November 12th, 2013 at 5:26:18 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

He said they "lured" him into the back room, and never closed the door.

Seems to me he went voluntarily and was free to go whenever he wanted.

So, where's the beef?



I didn't catch the word "lured." If he went on willingly then, yes, he would have a weak to no case.

Quote: Kickass

I told them that I wanted to cash out the chips and leave but they told me that they needed to talk to me first.
The meeting location happened to be their backroom. I did not try to run to cage and cash out. Did I voluntarily
go to their backroom if I know that? I don't think so. At that time, I was only concerned that my chips could be cashed out and
I did not have any backroom experience.



I want to stress I'm not an attorney, so don't take my legal advice with much heed. That said, I think since they didn't force to go, and you never said "no," your case is very weak. I don't think an attorney would deem your odds in court enough to take it on retainer.

Of the many times I've been backed off, it was handled very politely about half the time, and the other half rudely, but never beyond that.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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