Planning another trip for vegas, have a few questions

Hello all, this is my first thread of WoV. I am planning another trip to Vegas and have a few questions before I go.

I will be playing mostly double deck games, with at least 60% penetration or better and standard strip rules or better (3:2 BJ, H17/S17, double on any 2 cards, split up to 4 hands, DAS). I will be using Omega II with Ace side count (with 18 index plays), my spread will be $25-$100. I will be playing 2 hands if playing 2 spots doesn't require double minimum, or spread to 2 hands at plus count when the table does require double minimum for 2 hands. I will use almost no cover play or cover betting, but I will leave table after $1000 win/loss or at 40 minutes of playing. I plan on playing no more than 2 times at a same casino during this trip, and I will try to play at different shift.

Given the above playing conditions, I'm wondering about the following things:
1. Should I play rated or not? I will be visiting Vegas often so it would be nice to get a comp'd room once in a while. Should I be worrying about being barred at 4:1 spread with max bet of $100 and short sessions?
2. Should I be going to a different casino immediately after each session, or should I just stay in the same casino and play at a different pit to save some walking time?
3. For any math genius out there, what would be my expected per hour return assuming 60 hands an hour?

The problem you are going to have is finding many of those games on the strip. There are only a couple of playable DD with $25 min and they aren't always running.

I would check out this thread.
We here are all fans of the Aceofspades.
Here is his latest thread regarding his recent blackjack adventures on the strip.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/19762-vegace-vega-vegas/

I'm just a rookie but I highly recommend the downtown El Cortez. Excellent rules, just played there yesterday morning :-)

Quote: Numpkin

Hello all, this is my first thread of WoV. I am planning another trip to Vegas and have a few questions before I go.

I will be playing mostly double deck games, with at least 60% penetration or better and standard strip rules or better (3:2 BJ, H17/S17, double on any 2 cards, split up to 4 hands, DAS). I will be using Omega II with Ace side count (with 18 index plays), my spread will be $25-$100. I will be playing 2 hands if playing 2 spots doesn't require double minimum, or spread to 2 hands at plus count when the table does require double minimum for 2 hands. I will use almost no cover play or cover betting, but I will leave table after $1000 win/loss or at 40 minutes of playing. I plan on playing no more than 2 times at a same casino during this trip, and I will try to play at different shift.

Given the above playing conditions, I'm wondering about the following things:
1. Should I play rated or not? I will be visiting Vegas often so it would be nice to get a comp'd room once in a while. Should I be worrying about being barred at 4:1 spread with max bet of $100 and short sessions?
2. Should I be going to a different casino immediately after each session, or should I just stay in the same casino and play at a different pit to save some walking time?
3. For any math genius out there, what would be my expected per hour return assuming 60 hands an hour?

Welcome to the forum. Perhaps someone will sim that for you. In the meantime I have a few thoughts.

Penetration is very important in this game as is the amount of other players. I would not touch 60% pen at crowded tables and it would be my absolute minimum playing heads up or with another player. I suggest finding a way to spread 1-8 to realize the profit that you may have in mind. Avoid the scrutiny of spreading to two spots. If you must play two spots, begin the shoe that way. You can always drop one.

I'm not big on playing rated but don't let that stop you. It would depend on where you play. You want to be especially careful with chains that will share your information.

Quote: DRich

The problem you are going to have is finding many of those games on the strip. There are only a couple of playable DD with $25 min and they aren't always running.

Sorry for not clarifying, but I have scouted out the locations on my past few trips to Vegas, and I have route planned to minimize traveling time to maximizing playing time. A few of the places I'm gonna play are: Excalibur, Luxor, Flamingo, Harrahs, Rivera, Circus, Treasure Island, Stratosphere, Palace Station, Palms, Rio, and a few places downtown. There are enough to keep me busy for a weekend trip.

If I get lucky and my bank roll grows large enough, I will also be hitting some $50 tables.

Make sure you check this info.
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/

Quote: terapined

Make sure you check this info.
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/

I used they BJ survey page as a reference for my first card counting trip in Vegas, and I find that some of the information is inaccurate. To name a few, the DD game in Stratosphere does allow DAS, and I have visited Mirage 3 times on different shift and did not find a $15 DD game. I came up with my own list of places to play after a lot of driving and walking.

With his hit and run planning, not sure if it's worth playing rated.

Quote: Numpkin

I used they BJ survey page as a reference for my first card counting trip in Vegas, and I find that some of the information is inaccurate. To name a few, the DD game in Stratosphere does allow DAS, and I have visited Mirage 3 times on different shift and did not find a $15 DD game. I came up with my own list of places to play after a lot of driving and walking.

Welcome to the board, Numpkin! Games change all the time; any survey is inaccurate the moment it's published, as pits can change the game in an afternoon. Perhaps you'd be willing to share any updates with the Wizard? I'm sure he'd like to know; he's constantly updating and revising his pages in an effort to give accurate information.

Good luck on your Vegas trip; sounds very ambitious for a weekend, but I'm also a person who likes to locate somewhere for most of a day. Enjoy!

You seem to have already done your research and in my opinion you will find that the much maligned Stratosphere is really a bargain hunter's dream.

As to your hit another pit versus hit another casino, I think once you are noticed it makes no difference, so I wouldn't waste time casino hopping.

Quote: Numpkin

3. For any math genius out there, what would be my expected per hour return assuming 60 hands an hour?

EV is a breeze to calculate, but someone needs to figure the HE

even us dummies can see you aren't spreading enough to worry most places. If you are only spreading to 4x, I'd say get a player's card unless the place is notorious for heat.

Quote: Numpkin

Given the above playing conditions, I'm wondering about the following things:
1. Should I play rated or not? I will be visiting Vegas often so it would be nice to get a comp'd room once in a while. Should I be worrying about being barred at 4:1 spread with max bet of $100 and short sessions?
2. Should I be going to a different casino immediately after each session, or should I just stay in the same casino and play at a different pit to save some walking time?
3. For any math genius out there, what would be my expected per hour return assuming 60 hands an hour?

1. I would play rated at one set of properties. You're playing short enough sessions and a low enough spread that you should be fine. Like 1BB suggested the only cover you might want to utilize is starting the shoe at 2 hands so you don't get pressure later when you spread to 2. I personally did this and I was in and out with 1 or 2 hands so I never got questioned. I played at one set of properties and always played rated. You do want to be careful here though and utilize things like rat holing to keep any wins down. I've had free rooms to Vegas pretty much every time in my 8 visits over the years, and I'm a red chipper. It shouldn't be hard to get rooms/etc.
2. If you're keeping your sessions that short you could probably hop to a different pit. However, unless you specifically scouted casino's that have multiple playable pits I wouldn't count on it. I did the exact same thing as you for my recent Vegas trip (used the survey previous times, made my own list of games, etc) and I don't think I had very many places that had 3:2 in more than only one pit of the casino.
3. As stated before me, EV is not that difficult to calculate. I show an excel sheet in a previous thread of mine on exactly how to break down your EV, etc. I highly recommend you look at it as you can play with your spread and find what works best for you. To view threads people on the forums have made just click their name then click View Threads. Sigh, I still recommend reading it (as it shows how to set the cells up for the calculations), but here is the one picture of a default/benchmark excel calculation I posted (for Hi-Low and 6D I believe):


Side Notes:
- If you're going to spread to 2 hands are you going to make 2x50 your max, or 2x100? Because then you could get that 1-8 spread also suggested by 1BB to see what you're probably expecting as EV.
- You can definitely find places to play downtown. They don't have the best PEN, but they're not bad for a weekend trip. I would absolutely recommend checking out the Cortez... and plan on getting flat bet or the boot there (as I did and shared in a recent trip report). Their games have the absolute best rules though so you can make some money, and you can also get the badge of honor of being backed off from there =P. I would recommend some cover if you're going to play there though - ex. 1st time you raise your bet there should be a NEGATIVE count. The PB's usually thumb the discards to count them down when someone new raises their bet (more than just double) for the first time.