Farewell Mohegan (eviction story)

It seems that my last post jinxed me and I finally flew too close to the sun.

My last shoe at Mohegan Sun was absolutely absurd. Even at a RC of +15 about halfway into the shoe (makes it a TC of +5), baby cards kept on coming. It got to +23 with 2.5 decks left, (so TC > +9!!!). I've never experienced ANYTHING like that in a shoe game. I pushed my bet beyond what I usually do and put $1k down. Lost it, but the next two got blackjacks. It was glorious. I put another 1k bet up. And then the pit boss asked the dealer to wait a second before dealing the next hand.

"Sir, from now on, the table min is your table max and you may only play one hand. You are welcome to play roulette or baccarat if you like." After trying to ask why/did I do anything wrong / the regular stuff, he simply said "it's a business decision."

I left the table (should have stayed!!! even at $100 per hand that would be OK, right?), went to my host and described the issue. In the meantime, I learned that my Momentum (points) account was completely frozen. She did not know what was going on, was certain there was a mistake, etc. Eventually, she and I talked to some head wigwom and in a fairly persistent and almost aggressive tone, he said "we are a private establishment, it is up to our discretion whether or not to offer you complimentary things, and we choose not to. I don't have to give you a reason why, it's a business decision. Your account is frozen. You can still stay in the hotel, but will pay regular rates. You can still go to the stores, but you cannot pay with points, and the buffet and lounges are no longer comped."

I went to sleep and decided to hide in one of the normal pits (unrated) the next morning. It lasted about an hour, and I noticed someone recognize me. I left the table, went shopping, went to the buffet, and as I waited in line, I was approached by a security guy asking me for ID. I said sure, why, is everything ok, etc., and he asked me to follow him.

The rest was very civil, "you know exactly why you're here, and I hate doing this, but I have to eject you. You didn't do anything illegal, but we have identified you as a skilled player and we don't want your action anymore" and he issued me the formal warning (if I come back I will be subject to arrest). I then signed a paper saying I understood, and was escorted by security to my hotel room to pick things up, to the cashier to cash in chips, and then off to the garage.

Lesson learned:
1) big bets: use more low-denom chips rather than my idiot move of putting a 1k chip down.
2) If you're flat betted, don't try to be sneaky and hide somewhere. At least not right away. You will be found, and you will be evicted. That was a seriously stupid move on my part and I regret it.
3) Be nice to security guys. Don't lie, don't BS them. They will be nice in return (honestly, they deal with so much crap -- ie, someone punched a dealer the previous night.)
4) If you have points, use them. My account was frozen with over $500 worth on it. At times, I had over 3k in points. That's stupid. Spend them, turn them into gift cards if possible, whatever; but don't hoard them.

The part that I was most upset about is losing all the frequent flyer privileges. I lost concert reservations to Frankie Vallie, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, other hotel stays, etc. No more. Six months from now, I'm allowed to request that they rescind my eviction status. We'll see what happens...

So then I went to Foxwoods.

I would be especially interested in knowing whether this is a typical back-off procedure. What else have people on this forum experienced? What about casinos where you spend a long time building a rated status -- do they cold-turkey cut you off as well?

EDIT: I only just saw some stories on the $40k new counter thread. No need to repeat. Sorry about that.

Don't be surprised when they send your pic
to Foxwoods and you're backed off there
too. Get caught like this that these days, and
you're caught everywhere. Look at the
church team. They got caught and every
casino they went to in that state knew they
were coming.

When I was with the security guy, I actually said (as a joke) that I'd go and try to put Foxwoods out of business. His response, in a very sincere tone, was "sure, knock yourself out, they and us, we never talk to each other. They are our direct competitor and the reason we've had a lot of layoffs lately."

You might be right about photo sharing, but I honestly don't think that's the case between these two joints.

Quote: EvenBob

Don't be surprised when they send your pic
to Foxwoods and you're backed off there
too. Get caught like this that these days, and
you're caught everywhere. Look at the
church team. They got caught and every
casino they went to in that state knew they
were coming.

It was sent before he made it out of Mohegan Sun's garage.

Quote: arcticfun

I then signed a paper saying I understood

Why The F would sign anything?

Second lesson.

Security: "Will you come with me Sir"
You: NO THANK YOU, IM LEAVING.

Beatings may occur, but if you survive. your bankroll might increase.

3rd lesson, even if you do follow, didn't sign anything.

Honestly, this is the first time I've gone through something like this and I wanted to remain in good graces to the extent possible. What happens if you say "no thank you I'm leaving" and ignore security? Do they follow you or insist you follow them? how nasty can it get?

As for the paper thing, it seemed harmless -- just a formality. I get it, though -- next time, I won't sign anything.

Quote: arcticfun

Honestly, this is the first time I've gone through something like this and I wanted to remain in good graces to the extent possible. What happens if you say "no thank you I'm leaving" and ignore security? Do they follow you or insist you follow them? how nasty can it get?



As for the paper thing, it seemed harmless -- just a formality. I get it, though -- next time, I won't sign anything.

There is no "good graces" and they never want you back. What part of that did you think was up for discussion?

Come on, I mean besides going back there immediately which you admitted was dumb, why would you give your I.d. to the security guard? You had to know at that point they are going for a trespass. Just state you don't carry identification and head for the exit. Also as Axel said, why would you sign anything? Going back immediately, giving identification, and then signing the paper, a b c of what to never do, makes me angry just reading it. On a side note, talking to someone to try to get comps unfrozenrather than just leaving after a backoff, really? What did you really think your chances there were, slim or none?

Quote: 1BB

It was sent before he made it out of Mohegan Sun's garage.

If not sooner. They share this kind of
info now. This is a big deal, you were
trespassed from a major east coast
casino. They will tell whoever the usually
tell and this will come back to haunt you.

The biggest lesson you learned, and it
might be too late, is keep yourself as
far under the radar as possible. From
what you wrote, you made no attempt
to do that at all.

Generally they just follow you and start reading you the trespass warning act ( As a duly appointed representative of the owner of this property, I hereby warn you that you are trespassing on the property as defined by ......Bla bla bla. You will be subject to arrest if return to the premises...Bla bla bla. ) Sometimes they detain you. Sometimes they physically beat you, even resulting in death.

i'm assuming you were in the high roller pit. $50 & $100 tables get watched hard. i flat betted @ a $50 table there once & had a pit boss on me the whole time...there are more of them in those areas because they're more vulnerable there, even to people who aren't necessarily counting. not real sweaty, but they watch things more closely for sure. if you made the same actions at a $10 or $25 table, you might not have this problem IMHO. nevertheless, thanks for sharing your experience. i was starting to believe they tolerated counting there to an extent...

Quote: arcticfun

Honestly, this is the first time I've gone through something like this and I wanted to remain in good graces to the extent possible. What happens if you say "no thank you I'm leaving" and ignore security? Do they follow you or insist you follow them? how nasty can it get?

As for the paper thing, it seemed harmless -- just a formality. I get it, though -- next time, I won't sign anything.

Resistance is futile. How nasty can it get? Try a tomahawk in the back. Keep it civil. When the powers that be 86 you, recognize you are on private property and it is time to go.

Out of curiosity what was your average bet before you jumped to 1k per hand?

Quote: Boz

There is no "good graces" and they never want you back. What part of that did you think was up for discussion?

Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

It's possible, but not probable.

Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

Resistance is futile. How nasty can it get? Try a tomahawk in the back. Keep it civil. When the powers that be 86 you, recognize you are on private property and it is time to go.

Out of curiosity what was your average bet before you jumped to 1k per hand?

And you are on Indian land - their land, their rules and, most importantly, their courts if you attempt to sue them after they kick the **** out of you!

Quote: arcticfun

When I was with the security guy, I actually said (as a joke) that I'd go and try to put Foxwoods out of business. His response, in a very sincere tone, was "sure, knock yourself out, they and us, we never talk to each other. They are our direct competitor and the reason we've had a lot of layoffs lately."

You might be right about photo sharing, but I honestly don't think that's the case between these two joints.

Security never lie, so there's that good news.

Lesson 4: never tell a casino where your headed next.

Casinos have been known to send information back and fourth frequently.Possibly unofficially. See The adventures of Lemiux66 (AC)

Quote: kitties666

i'm assuming you were in the high roller pit. $50 & $100 tables get watched hard. i flat betted @ a $50 table there once & had a pit boss on me the whole time...there are more of them in those areas because they're more vulnerable there, even to people who aren't necessarily counting. not real sweaty, but they watch things more closely for sure. if you made the same actions at a $10 or $25 table, you might not have this problem IMHO. nevertheless, thanks for sharing your experience. i was starting to believe they tolerated counting there to an extent...

They do because of the poor penetration. This story is quite rare.

Quote: 1BB

They do because of the poor penetration. This story is quite rare.

you're right. it's the only place where i've NEVER profited from counting...i have seen several astronomical counts & experienced the shit end of variance every time. i profit there from a combination of kelly wagering, strong basic strategy, & TONS of breaks.

Quote: AxelWolf

Security never lies, so there's that good news.
(AC)

lol Or they always lie, it's hard to tell
at times exactly what they're saying.

Quote: EvenBob

lol Or they always lie, it's hard to tell
at times exactly what they're saying.

Approves:

Quote: arcticfun

I would be especially interested in knowing whether this is a typical back-off procedure. What else have people on this forum experienced? What about casinos where you spend a long time building a rated status -- do they cold-turkey cut you off as well?

Well, I'll try not to beat a dead horse, but I hope you realize the plethora of things you could/should have done and hopefully you'll learn for future experiences.

It sounds like you were nothing more than flat betted/backed off. At this point you could have left, not returned for a couple months, and possibly played there again (not spreading 10-1 like you just were). However, refusing to leave, playing again, saying ANYTHING to the security guard other than "I would like to leave"... these are the reasons you won't play there again =/.

When the security guard wants your ID you do not give it to him. If he requests you go with him you clearly and somewhat loudly (so perhaps others can hear) state that you would like to leave. Start walking for the closest exit. They might say things like "you have to come with me" or "you really need to come with me" etc. All of that is nonsense and you should just keep walking to the door. In fact, the moment you're approached you should have your phone out video recording. They are not within their rights to put their hands on you, at all***. If they do it's lawyer time, and you'll get your biggest win from the casino yet, so hope they're that stupid.

***Being that it's an indian casino/reservation, your rights change and are much less from my understanding. All the more reason not to F with them anymore when you were originally flat betted.

Here is a recent trespass which I experienced. I'm playing a promotion at a casino. I look up from the machine which I'm playing and see the ring of fire around me (four security guards).

"Sir, may I see some ID?"

"According to the ______ Revised Statutes, I'm required to carry identification on my person at all times, which I am now doing. However, I'm not required to show it to you. If you would like to call the police in this jurisdiction, I would be happy to show my identification to them when they arrive in accordance with the law."

After I cashed out the machine, I was escorted to the cashiers' cage and then the property line and read the trespass act.

"Do you understand what I have just read to you?" No response from me and I leave the property.

The next day, I return to the casino to get several hundred dollars of cash back from my player's club card. As soon as I step on the property, I'm surrounded by the ring of fire.

"May I see some ID?"

"Sure officer. Here you go. What's the problem?"

"We have reason to believe that you were trespassed from the property yesterday."

"Please call in my information and let's get this terrible misunderstanding cleared up."

"Sorry for the inconvenience, sir. You are clear."

"That's quite all right. Have a good day." I get my cash back and live happily ever after.

I've spent and spend countless hours reading state statutes, tribal codes, maritime law, international law, and gaming regulations so that I know my rights better than anyone who will try to take them from me.

Having one hour to chop wood, spend forty five minutes sharpening the axe. - Abraham Lincoln

When I was banned from Caesar's Palace, I refused to show my ID to security. However, when the police arrived, I showed it to the officer and requested that he not give it to security. So what did the officer do? He promptly handed it directly to them.

I don't think they bother you at any other casino unless you'll attempt to play BJ.

Quote: HughJass

Having one hour to chop wood, spend forty five minutes sharpening the axe. - Abraham Lincoln

Close

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109275.html

Quote: HughJass

Here is a recent trespass which I experienced. I'm playing a promotion at a casino. I look up from the machine which I'm playing and see the ring of fire around me (four security guards).

"Sir, may I see some ID?"

"According to the ______ Revised Statutes, I'm required to carry identification on my person at all times, which I am now doing. However, I'm not required to show it to you. If you would like to call the police in this jurisdiction, I would be happy to show my identification to them when they arrive in accordance with the law."

After I cashed out the machine, I was escorted to the cashiers' cage and then the property line and read the trespass act.

"Do you understand what I have just read to you?" No response from me and I leave the property.

The next day, I return to the casino to get several hundred dollars of cash back from my player's club card. As soon as I step on the property, I'm surrounded by the ring of fire.

"May I see some ID?"

"Sure officer. Here you go. What's the problem?"

"We have reason to believe that you were trespassed from the property yesterday."

"Please call in my information and let's get this terrible misunderstanding cleared up."

"Sorry for the inconvenience, sir. You are clear."

"That's quite all right. Have a good day." I get my cash back and live happily ever after.

I've spent and spend countless hours reading state statutes, tribal codes, maritime law, international law, and gaming regulations so that I know my rights better than anyone who will try to take them from me.

Having one hour to chop wood, spend forty five minutes sharpening the axe. - Abraham Lincoln

Not sure what I'm supposed to take out of this, or why they would let you back on the property. My best guess is your player's card used an alias. I think it is pretty obvious that if there is insufficient proof you are trespassing, you won't be convicted--and probably won't be cited.

It sounds like he never produced ID when he was evicted, so when he came back and showed ID his name wasn't listed on their "tresspassed" list.

Do I have that right?

But why did they evict you in the first place?

Quote: coachbelly

It sounds like he never produced ID when he was evicted, so when he came back and showed ID his name wasn't listed on their "tresspassed" list.

Do I have that right?

But why did they evict you in the first place?

Well, they either knew his name or they didn't. It sounds like they did. If he used his credit card or license for anything, surveillance can track down the info. Happened to me b4, got backed off my name while playing unrated. At another place, I've been trespassed playing unrated; I was asked for ID when they were booting me, and I refused. I don't plan on returning and pretending I'm the wrong guy, because they'd recognize me. There's something more to this story, or he's out of his mind and got lucky. They can kick out anyone for any reason, he has no right to play. And if they trespassed him, and there is sufficient evidence, him not producing ID doesn't mean he has a right to trespass and not be cited. In Vegas, I've read you trespasses are never permanent; they have to trespass you each time you show up. Maybe he was there, and thinks he's a legal genius for not really understanding how anything works.

Quote: Keyser

When I was banned from Caesar's Palace, I refused to show my ID to security. However, when the police arrived, I showed it to the officer and requested that he not give it to security. So what did the officer do? He promptly handed it directly to them.

Do what now?

Bob Nersesian told me almost that exact story. Exact same details. Only his ended with him winning the guy $2XX,XXX.

I don't know what you did, but hopefully the answer is "something".