Blackjack - Casinos using shuffle machines to cheat...?

I have been playing Blackjack for a few years now. I live fairly close to Blackhawk, CO where there is a small casino town. I have also visited Las Vegas 3-4 times over this period. Here's what I have noticed consistently:

/// Playing two-deck or one-deck blackjack at home and two-deck or one-deck hand-shuffled blackjack at a casino (where available) is VERY different than playing at a table with 4-8 decks using shuffle machines. ///

*I have noticed that the probability strategy (which I use) does not work well with machine-shuffled tables or tables with more than 2 decks.
*There is a chance that the machines that shuffle the cards do not shuffle the decks randomly. Furthermore, unlike the hand-shuffled one and two deck tables, you do not get to see all the cards on the table (when they change decks). What would happen if the tens are clumped together in certain sequence? Probability goes out the window. Only people that will have a chance at an even game with the dealer would be someone with a big bank roll and consistent betting (i.e. betting $10 for all hands). And what if a few tens are missing from the decks? It gives the dealer a much higher chance of not busting with dealer getting higher instances of 3-5 card 20's.

If you are a BJ player using probability and betting strategy (betting high when you have a higher probability of getting better cards), avoid machine-shuffled tables at all costs. In my opinion, many of these casinos are going far and above to take your money and rip you off using whatever strategy they can even with the dealer advantage they have (i.e. whether dealer wins or loses, anyone that busts on the table loses first and the dealer gets the money).

I have found a few casinos that work well for me, and I feel safe playing blackjack there because they have hand-shuffled blackjack tables. These two casinos here in CO are run by the same company called, Affinity Gaming. Whatever the case, I recommend a casino that have one, two, or three hand-shuffled tables (three would even better since they only use half of the cards. So two-deck would feel like playing with one and three would be like 1.5 decks).

Quote: williamwizard

I have been playing Blackjack for a few years now. I live fairly close to Blackhawk, CO where there is a small casino town. I have also visited Las Vegas 3-4 times over this period. Here's what I have noticed consistently:

/// Playing two-deck or one-deck blackjack at home and two-deck or one-deck hand-shuffled blackjack at a casino (where available) is VERY different than playing at a table with 4-8 decks using shuffle machines. ///

I'd say that about 65% play blackjack without a special strategy (other than "bet more when I am winning and less when I am losing") and about 45% use probability.

*I have noticed that the probability strategy (which I use) does not work well with machine-shuffled tables or tables with more than 2 decks.
*There is a chance that the machines that shuffle the cards do not shuffle the decks randomly. Furthermore, unlike the hand-shuffled one and two deck tables, you do not get to see all the cards on the table (when they change decks). What would happen if the tens are clumped together in certain sequence? Probability goes out the window. Only people that will have a chance at an even game with the dealer would be someone with a big bank roll and consistent betting (i.e. betting $10 for all hands). And what if a few tens are missing from the decks? It gives the dealer a much higher chance of not busting.

If you are a BJ player using probability and betting strategy (betting high when you have a higher probability of getting better cards), avoid machine-shuffled tables at all costs. In my opinion, many of these casinos are going far and above to take your money and rip you off using whatever strategy they can even with the dealer advantage they have (i.e. whether dealer wins or loses, anyone that busts on the table loses first and the dealer gets the money).

I have found a few casinos that work well for me, and I feel safe playing blackjack there because they have hand-shuffled blackjack tables. These two casinos here in CO are run by the same company called, Affinity Gaming. Whatever the case, I recommend a casino that have one, two, or three hand-shuffled tables (three would even better since they only use half of the cards. So two-deck would feel like playing with one and three would be like 1.5 decks).

What is your "probability" based strategy?

Also, if 65% of players play with with no special strategy, and 45% players play with a "probability" strategy, what about the other -10%?

I'd suspect that the probability that you hand-shuffle a deck better than a machine is close to 0. In other words, your shuffles at the kitchen table are "less random" than anything that you wold see in a casino.

I meant 60/40... didn't want to say 50/50. Just a random guess from experience, but that is not the point of this post man.

Not so much random as a wild ass guess !

When new decks are opened at a las vegas table they show everything. Stop and watch a table as it opens one day and you'll see them spread 6 decks out on the table to verify each and every card is there with the proof being the camera above you. The casino has no reason to remove a few tens to get an extra half percent edge when they already have math on their side. All it would take is a single disgruntled casino employee or watchful player and the casino loses its license with the people who did it going to jail.

You two must be Casino owners. Haha. Again that isn't the point. Bunch of crazy asses here.

None of the casinos here in Colorado show their decks. And if you ask them to show the decks, they will say no.

I agree with you. Very good point. But... who's to say that the cards are shuffled randomly? Very likely they are not.

Another pretty wild accusation. Do you have any proof that the casinos you go to in Blackhawk and LV are cheating you other than comparing house dealt games to games dealt in the casino?

It should be made clear that casinos have FAR MORE to lose if they are caught cheating than what they could ever win from a few crooked games of blackjack.

Remember, randomness is in the eye of the beholder. What you see as random at home and not random at a casino may be completely askewed to another persons perception thereof.

I hope you will give casinos the benefit of the doubt unless you have concrete proof otherwise.

Not shuffling the cards properly isn't illegal.