European vs American rules

I have been wondering whether the difference between European blackjack and 'regular' blackjack, results in a less friendly atmosphere at European blackjack tables.

In European blackjack, the dealer only gets a face-up card and no hole card. If I understand anything about probability and cards, this makes no difference to the outcome of the game, except there is no peeking for blackjack by the dealer.
Superstitious players though, believe they can influence the dealers hand by standing or hitting and that when other players play 'bad' they have a negative effect on the outcome for other players. Especially the last player before the dealer can get quite a lot of abuse for this.

For instance, you are the last player. You have 16, the dealer has an ace. You hit and take a 4 (other players start grumbling). The dealer takes a 10 and gets a blackjack, so the whole table loses. Now the rest of the table gets mad at you, because you 'caused' the dealer to get blackjack. If you would not have hit, the dealer had gotten the 4 and then the ten, getting to 15 and having a high chance of going bust.
Because you where hoping for a low card when you hit on 16, but a low card is also bad for the dealer, the other players feel like you are playing against them.

Interestingly, when in the same situation the opposite happens, you hit 16 against ace, but get a 10 and go bust, followed by the dealer getting 4, taking some other cards and also going bust, those same superstitious players might thank you for 'taking one for the team'.

My theory is that because of the hole card, players in American blackjack have less of a feeling they can influence the outcome and this sort of animosity is less common. Can anyone from the US or other places that follow these rules confirm or deny?

The same superstitions are true in American casinos. They are just displaced by one card. I can't think that it makes that much difference in attitude. You still get guys walking away from tables screaming because of the perception that someone is screwing up the game.

The European no peek rule creates some minor difference in strategy. In the American version you already know that the dealer does not have blackjack, so the probabilities regarding doubling and splitting change somewhat. In European blackjack you don't know if the dealer will get a blackjack, and you must be slightly more conservative on when you increase your bet.

For example consider a player 11 against a dealer 10. In America you would double, but in Europe you would just hit. American blackjack has ruled out the possibility of a blackjack and the higher EV is to double. In Europe you must factor in the possibility of a dealer blackjack and you simply hit.

Another rule is that in Europe you don't split a pair of 8's against a 10 or an Ace. In America you would do that. In fact the alliterative nature of the rule "Always split Aces and Eights" means that it is easily remembered.

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Reminds of another IQ test.
Look at the sequence OTTFFSS _ _.
What are the missing two letters?

I could be wrong but I think in at least some cases in no-hole-card blackjack, if the dealer gets a blackjack, then all bets beyond the original are pushed back to the player. Wikipedia says this is true in Australia and New Zealand.

There is still the animosity at an American blackjack table, particularly when the dealer turns out to have a hard hand like 15 or 16, and you had hit on 3rd base and took a big card that would have busted the dealer. I don't play 3rd base because I don't want to draw attention to myself when I count

I could imagine that the negative energy is worse with no-peek blackjack, since you can actually cause a blackjack, but I doubt it's much worse.

Quote: silversonic2006

I could be wrong but I think in at least some cases in no-hole-card blackjack, if the dealer gets a blackjack, then all bets beyond the original are pushed back to the player. Wikipedia says this is true in Australia and New Zealand.

I haven't realy researched. I was going by the Wizard's articles on the subject.

It gets complicated in Australia what happens if the dealer gets a blackjack. I explained the four possibilities in my article on Australian blackjack. In Macau the dealer does not take a hole card, and usually the player will only lose his original wager if the dealer gets a blackjack. I haven't been to Europe in several years, but I believe players still lose all doubles and splits when the dealer gets a blackjack there.

Quote: Wizard

I haven't been to Europe in several years, but I believe players still lose all doubles and splits when the dealer gets a blackjack there.

Yes, in The Netherlands your complete bet is lost against a dealer blackjack. I know the impact that has on basic strategy.

I would have guessed the hole card reduced the superstition amongst players, because many hands, especially losing ones, are resolved without the dealer taking a third card. But of course, superstitious players always find a way to be superstitious.

How do you guys typically respond to the screaming, superstitious guy at the table? Ignore him? Insult him?

Quote: ruascott

How do you guys typically respond to the screaming, superstitious guy at the table? Ignore him? Insult him?

Usually ignore him or change tables myself. It he is screaming at cards he is likely to take anything you say very personally. I thought one guy was going to punch out a lady who kept splitting tens. Another guy was upset because he was losing money at a casino that offered the best odds in Vegas.

Quote: pacomartin

I thought one guy was going to punch out a lady who kept splitting tens.

I once played at a table where everyone split their tens.
When I got a pair tens I didn't split then everyone stared at me seemed I was a newbie knowing nothing about the game.

Quote: pokerface

I once played at a table where everyone split their tens.
When I got a pair tens I didn't split then everyone stared at me seemed I was a newbie knowing nothing about the game.

In Double down: reflections on gambling and loss By Frederick Barthelme, Steve Barthelme they are discussing the old style blackjack dealers who were encouraged to be a little bawdy and have a funny personal style. A popular line from a very prim looking female player or dealer (or and older woman) was "If you had a 20" penis, would you cut it in half?"

I try to guess how that strategy got started. I figure that even if you split the tens, each hand is more likely to win then lose if the dealer has a bad card. People figure that two hands that are both likely to win is better than one hand. It shows you how perception can lead you to the wrong conclusion versus rigorously calculating the expected value of each option.

Quote: pacomartin

In Double down: reflections on gambling and loss By Frederick Barthelme, Steve Barthelme they are discussing the old style blackjack dealers who were encouraged to be a little bawdy and have a funny personal style. A popular line from a very prim looking female player or dealer (or and older woman) was "If you had a 20" penis, would you cut it in half?"

Thanks for that quote. That is my favorite gambling book.