Entry level card counting questions

I picked up Frank Scoblete's Best Blackjack book the other day and have been reading and practicing Hi/Lo counting. One question I have from the book is how to gauge the penetrence of a game before you sit down. Are you supposed to watch and see how many decks they deal out prior to even buying in?

Also, this is probably a dumb question but does the plastic cut card indicate when the dealer is supposed to shuffle? If so, how do you gauge penetrence if the shuffle point moves every shoe? I've played in casinos plenty, but usually just play basic strategy and never really paid any attention to when the dealer shuffles.

Any help would be appreciated.

I didn't know Scoblete had a blackjack book.

You can do better.

Found it at half price books for 4 bucks. Good reviews on amazon (although I'm not sure that really means anything) so I picked it up. Regardless, my question remains the same.

Quote: danzilla

Found it at half price books for 4 bucks.

You paid too much. Way too much.

Look on the bright side. At least you didn't pay for a dice control seminar.

Quote: danzilla

I picked up Frank Scoblete's Best Blackjack book the other day and have been reading and practicing Hi/Lo counting. One question I have from the book is how to gauge the penetrence of a game before you sit down. Are you supposed to watch and see how many decks they deal out prior to even buying in?

Also, this is probably a dumb question but does the plastic cut card indicate when the dealer is supposed to shuffle? If so, how do you gauge penetrence if the shuffle point moves every shoe? I've played in casinos plenty, but usually just play basic strategy and never really paid any attention to when the dealer shuffles.

Any help would be appreciated.

Observe the dealer insert the cut card after shuffling. If 1.5 decks are cut off a 6 deck shoe you have 75% penetration.

When the cut card comes out the dealer finishes the hand and shuffles. Depending on the number of hands in play and the need to draw cards, there could be no more cards dealt or a dozen or more dealt. It will vary.

danzilla,

If there's a shoe, there's a burn holder on the table to your left where used cards are placed. You can usually see the cut card in the top of the shoe as a line of yellow or other color, because the cards are tilted in the shoe and you can see more of the edge that way. New poker cards are about 1/2" to the deck stacked in the burn holder, so you can walk in mid-shoe and get a pretty good idea where they are.

Quote: danzilla

I picked up Frank Scoblete's Best Blackjack book the other day and have been reading and practicing Hi/Lo counting. One question I have from the book is how to gauge the penetrence of a game before you sit down. Are you supposed to watch and see how many decks they deal out prior to even buying in?

You can probably just look at where they put the cut card, and then sit down if you like the penetration. If they use a discard tray, you can also eyeball that before the shuffle.

Also, while it may vary from dealer to dealer and from casino to casino, I've often found that some places will tell you what the penetration is if you simply call and ask.

Quote:

Also, this is probably a dumb question but does the plastic cut card indicate when the dealer is supposed to shuffle? If so, how do you gauge penetrence if the shuffle point moves every shoe? I've played in casinos plenty, but usually just play basic strategy and never really paid any attention to when the dealer shuffles.

Any help would be appreciated.

Once they reach the plastic cut card, they'll finish out the play (if there is play in progress) with the remainder of the deck and then shuffle as soon as play completes.

The art of gauging penetration is not an exact science, the House may have a rule on how many decks to cut off, but with the imperfection of dealers, it really becomes more of an, "About," than an exact thing. For example, if you have an eight-deck shoe and the House wants two of those cut off, the dealers aren't expected to cut off exactly 104 cards, just to get reasonably close.

I have a question regarding counting cards and taking insurance. Suppose you're playing a six deck game using Hi/lo, there are 2 decks remaining and the running count is +12, which is a true count of +3. Dealer gets an an ace and offers insurance. Should you accept insurance and, most importantly, what are the calculations backing up the decision?

Thanks,
Ace

A running count of 12 with 2 decks left would be a true count of 6, not 3. Anytime the true count is over 3 for a 6-deck game you are supposed to take insurance when counting with hilo. It is 2.4 for double deck and 3.1 for 8 deck. The calculations backing that up are that on average 1/3rd of the remaining deck will be 10s when the count reaches those thresholds for those deck numbers.

Most games I've played allow the player to place the cut card prior to starting the shoe. Doesn't this make the penetrance kind of random and up to wherever the cut card is placed?

The cut card just marks a position where they split the deck and take the "back side" and move it to the front of the shoe. Then the dealer places the cut card wherever the casino has decided the cutoff point to be. Some shoes even have a notch cut into them so the dealer places the cut card (roughly) the same spot every shoe.

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Ah thanks, never paid enough attention to notice how it works live