Blackjack Questions

Last night I went to the casino with a few friends and feel that I may have found an AP situation, which raises a bunch of questions for me. Let me preface this by saying that I play poker 99% of the time I am at a casino. I play often and am able to supplement my income by grinding, practicing good bankroll management, and discipline.

The rules of the game I was playing last night with friends were:
8 deck
s17
DAS
up to 3 split
Late Surrender

Sorry if I forgot something or my terminology is incorrect. This is a relatively new game for me but I do know basic strategy down cold.

I have always been interested in learning a level 1 count and feel this game may be good due to the following factors:
1. The penetration was about 95% of the shoe.
2. People were spreading between 1-15 units without anyone batting an eye.

Are these factors alone good enough to warrant learning a count?
If you do count and can remain accurate throughout the shoe is there a stop loss limit or max win before walking for the night? To me this seems counter intuitive because if you have the advantage shouldn't you play as long as possible until fatigue sets in assuming you are properly bankrolled.
Assuming a good aptitude for this, how many hours of practice before attempting in the casino?

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated, I have spent some time searching other threads and gathering information but would like to get information straight from people who currently do this. I know this will not make me rich. To be honest I am more interested in mentally challenging myself rather then making money; although some profit would be nice.

Sounds real good.
Why bother learning to count?
Just increase your bets when everyone else does.

Great questions, SlackJaw. You mentioned people spreading 1 -15. If that is your plan, and you learn to count properly, my guess is your biggest potential problem would be not having a big enough bankroll. If you do have an adequate bankroll, there should never be an upside stop limit. The count should determine when you stop. I'm sure you are getting pm's asking where you get those rules with 1 -15 spread with no heat, by the way!

95% pen with late surrender? Who is running this game, someone who wants to lose money?

This is a gold mine.

There's not necessarily a win or loss limit to be proficient at card counting. What you want to do is keep your sessions short, playing 1 or 2 good shoes and then taking a break.

Is there more than one table like this?


As for practice, you should be able to count down a deck of cards at home somewhere between 30 and 40 seconds, preferably closer to 30. I recommend counting 2 cards at a time both at home and in the casino, as that way you can cancel out a lot of cards.

15-1 sounds like more than enough of a spread to beat this game like a drum, assuming they let you play. I would try to get as well bankrolled as possible because swings will be big .

The penetration and rules make this a good 8 deck game which is beatable with a level one count. Are you certain that the 95% pen wasn't a fluke at one table? Choose between a balanced count like Hi-Lo or an unbalanced count like KO and start practicing. Spread as much as you can get away with but don't think that they are not watching that game.

I sat at that table for hours last night with different dealers hand shuffling and it was the same every time. In my limited research, it appears that whether I choose to learn a balanced or unbalanced count the difference is miniscule? (Just concerned about converting to true count accurately on a consistent basis)I am going back next weekend to see if the same thing is happening at a different table. In the meantime I am going to start practicing counting down decks. Thanks for your help so far everyone.

Quote: sodawater

95% pen with late surrender? Who is running this game, someone who wants to lose money?

This is a gold mine.

15-1 sounds like more than enough of a spread to beat this game like a drum, assuming they let you play.

I find it a little funny how you guy's complain and call the casino operators idiots for not offering these kind of rules/penetration in the first place, but when they do you imply that they are idiots for offering these rules. :)

ha, i don't recall ever complaining in my life that a casino is not offering 95% pen. I would never expect a casino to deal out 395 cards in a single blackjack shoe.

I was just observing in general, not implying you directly Soda. It just usually pops up in discussions about card counting and casino rules/penetration. Just felt like a funny point to make.

Casino operators are the epitome of virtue: they dedicate their brief lives to enhancing the happiness and wellbeing of others. Anyone who implies the contrary must have some kind of agenda.