I'm done with Mohegan Sun

Lately I’ve been trying to stay away from Mohegan Sun and patronize MGM Foxwoods more simply for one reason, I find the dealers at MS to be extremely rude. Too many stories to get into now but what happened to me late December solidified my decision not to go back to MS ever again.

I was at Mohegan for a friend’s 40th birthday, it was about 9pm, just after dinner and the place was packed. So much so that there was no way we would be able to find any table game to play together so we decided to split up for a little while and regroup a little later. A friend and I decided to play BJ and we were fortunate enough to find a table with two open seats, just not next to each other. The two dealers that rotated in and out of this table were emotionless and looked miserable. Some players tried some small talk with the dealers but they wanted nothing to do with small talk. Another player and I were the only two players that tipped the dealers with any frequency, on average $5 after a good run or a black jack or a profitable double down. Sometimes the dealers would grunt out a thank you and other times they just took the tip without uttering a word. Fast forward to just under an hour of play and I am having a conversation with the guy sitting next to me. On this particular hand the dealer is showing an Ace and I have a 5, 3. Everyone at the table is waiving off the insurance option as do I, while I am talking to the guy next to me. I obviously wasn’t paying to close attention to what was going on at the table because what felt like a few seconds after being asked if I wanted insurance I see the dealer looking at me. I again waive off insurance and she then moves on the next player who asks for a hit. I jump out of my seat and said wait a second I thought you were asking me if I wanted insurance. I didn’t see you check for BJ or even deal to anyone else. Of course I want a hit, I have an 8, why wouldn’t I hit? The dealer said she knew I had an 8 but it was too late, I can’t hit now, the next player has taken a card. What I didn’t see was the three players before me all had 17 or higher, which explains why I didn’t see them take a hit.

I started to raise my voice asking what idiot would stay on a hard 8. And that I have been tipping her ever since I sat down, for that reason alone would it have killed her to ask me if I was SURE I didn’t want to hit on an 8. Not to mention I have been playing basic strategy ever since I sat down, last time I checked you don’t stand on a hard 8, not ever. At this point the pitboss hears me yelling and comes over to see what’s going on. I tell her I know I am in the wrong because I wasn’t paying attention and it’s not the dealers responsibility to tell me when to hit or stand. But in the interest of the game and in the good name of the casino, wouldn’t you want to teach your dealers that if someone makes a complete bone head move like staying on anything 11 or under that you may want to at least ask are you sure, instead of immediately dealing to the next player? In other casinos I have seen countless times where a dealer will try to help people if they should make a boneheaded call like asking for a hot on a hard 19. (and yes I have seen someone ask for a hit on a hard 19)

Has anything like this ever happened to you?

Needless to say the pitboss said she couldn’t do anything for me and obviously I lost that hand. After that hand, I got up, started to collect my chips, refused to color up, told the pitboss I know I am a small player ($25-100/hand) but this is the last time I will give this casino my business. I had enough of your horrible unfriendly dealers. I then handed the pitboss my players card and told her to throw it in the garbage, then went to cash out.
For the rest of the night I watched my friends play into the early morning hours. But for the rest of the night the running joke my friends were making fun of me for was asking each other what is the proper play when dealt a 5, 3 in BJ? Can you split, do you have a chance at a royal flush, maybe you have to announce goldfish, maybe you do nothing until the river is dealt.

Anyway, I am staying away from Mohegan Sun.

Let me get this straight. You're staying away
because you completely blew a hand because
your head was up your butt and you felt you
should have been treated special? Wow, how
do you react when the casino makes a mistake
and not you? Threaten to kill yourself?

It is a customer service business. They have a competitor. If you feel you were not serviced properly, then I applaud you for letting them know and moving your business to a competitor. I think if it was your first error, and one as obvious as that one, the pit boss should have overruled the dealer and allowed you to hit, just warning you that next time the 'redo' would not be allowed.

Terrible customer service by the dealer. Anyone trying to stand on an 8 should at least be asked verbally.

Actually EvanBob I am staying away because of many instances where I felt the dealers were not acting in a professional capacity. I tried but obviously failed to properly convey this earlier on in my post. I can list about four separate occasions where a dealer yelled at me, literally yelled at me for not playing the side sucker bets. He became so insistent that he stopped dealing the table until I called a pitboss over to tell them what was going on. Another time I sat a table and was again yelled at that it was a private table even though there was no sign anywhere indicating it was a private table. Another time a dealer called me an idiot for not doubling an A, 2 vs. a dealer 2.

And yes I did completely blow a hand, but it’s the history of "I don’t give a F***" attitude that I have been getting by the dealers is what will be keeping me away. The casinos bill gambling as "entertainment" but there is nothing entertaining about being treated poorly when you patronize their establishment. My last post I was trying to tell the readers a story about my last experience at MS and wondering if anyone can relate.

When you tip while getting lousy service, then you can expect lousy service to continue.

Quote: Buzzard

When you tip while getting lousy service, then you can expect lousy service to continue.

This is actually true. You become an enabler for
lousy service if you reward them for being rude.
You get what you pay for..

While technically correct that was horrible customer service. You need to write a scathing email to them about your unpleasant experience. You would be surprised how much good it might do.

Quote: hook3670

You need to write a scathing email .

even better, an old-fashioned real letter

Just based on your details, it seems like you were fairly well invested in your conversation, and weren't paying a lot of attention to the hand.
Did the dealer wave her hand across the table signaling the close of the insurance offer?

I don't know you at all, so please take no offense, but could it be that you had been slow to act a few times before, while chatting with your friend across the table, and the dealer was tired of waiting for you to act? If so, she may have just been taking an opportunity to make a point. Before I did anything further, I would make sure that I was not at all culpable in what happened.
Was it poor service, especially for someone who was tipping? No question. It would be my last tip to her, and the relief dealer would be told why she is not getting any tips from me either. I just say, "I am sorry, but because you tip share, I cannot put any of my money into a pool where so and so is going to benefit, not after the stunt she just pulled."

Now, I will also suggest a slightly different approach to the original problem. Instead of yelling at the dealer (your words), simply stop the game, and ask for the floor to come over. Be gracious, be sweet, accept all the blame, say whatever it takes so that the floor can't help but WANT to help you. If the dealer did not wave the Insurance closed, bring that up, in the nicest way possible. Since the next player has acted, the casino is not obligated to do anything for you. You need a favor from them. Once the decision is made, if it did not go your way, then finish the hand, and ask for the floor to discuss it some more, while the table plays on. Maybe they will give you a buffet. Try and get something, anything.

If all of that fails, protect your seat and take a bathroom break to cool off. Stretch it for as long as you feel you want. You are costing them action, since no one is playing your spot. You are getting a pound of flesh your way. If you still feel convinced not to play any more after some time, come back pick up your chips, and leave. Once the floor has ruled against you, they really don't care if you leave or not. However, still being nice, you might want to call them back over and just say you need to check the correct spelling on their badge, for your letter to the casino manager. This may get you an apology, or it may get you a big FU. But if you have been nothing but gracious and nice the whole time, they are on the defensive.

There is not as much instant gratification doing it this way, but overall, your success rate at winning a concession from the floor is going to be much higher. Then again, at some places, it just won't matter. YMMV

The other day this guy wouldn't stop complaining about the terrible hands he was getting. Fed up, he finally said "You give me one more bad hand and I leave."
The dealer replied "promise?" lol. Beer almost came out my nose.

Eh, the same thing happened to me except I had A-6 vs dealer A at Ballys just when they started hitting Soft 17.

He asks for Insurance, I wave it off twice in a row(only meaning to emphatically wave off the insurance)

He proceeds to simply flip over his hole card, which was a 6 and draws a 10 before I even had a second to stop him. To which I respond "Wait a sec, I was gonna hit my hand!"

He responds "Oh, I thought you were signaling to stay!"

So I just say, "Nevermind, probably would've lost had I taken that 10!"

Sure enough, next card was a 3! So he saved me from that mess!!

Point being, sometimes the dealers are oblvious to the hands and merely watch the hand signals. It's usually not malicious or out of spite, they just had long days or possibly a domestic problem that is clouding their thought process. Don't take it personally. You did right by speaking up about it and the house was wrong for not giving the chance to pull back your bet or at least pull a card to play the hand out.

But making a scene over it may not be the best idea, just calmly voice your displeasure and tell them you will be heading elsewhere from now on.

I must say, compared to my most recent excursion to Barona, Mohegan's staff has been pretty fantastic by comparison. Barona wasn't totally terrible, but there were noticeably more dealers there that were very obviously not invested in providing a positive experience for their players. I did find a couple of very friendly dealers @ Barona, but that was it...just two.

There are some great dealers @ Mohegan...I don't know where you all play in there but there are a bunch of tables near the poker room that usually get good action & the tables in that general area aren't bad as far as dealers go (though the players are the worst ever, hands down). As a result of my last trip I will only play solo in the pit there...otherwise I'm bringing friends & putting the table on lock. It's a lot less fun when strangers/degenerate gamblers can ruin it for you. There is no greater feeling than clearing a dealer's tray while sending the vultures packing. I also love that they do not allow back betting or splitting 10's.

I also find the dealers there to be very unfriendly. I don't mean to come off the wrong way, but was this dealer by any chance of a particular ethnicity? I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. So many dealers there are particularly standoffish. Unfortunately you will find that at the 25 dollar level the Foxwoods games are 8 deck and H17, but I don't blame you for taking your business elsewhere.

Quote: mgreiche

Actually EvanBob I am staying away because of many instances where I felt the dealers were not acting in a professional capacity. I tried but obviously failed to properly convey this earlier on in my post. I can list about four separate occasions where a dealer yelled at me, literally yelled at me for not playing the side sucker bets. He became so insistent that he stopped dealing the table until I called a pitboss over to tell them what was going on. Another time I sat a table and was again yelled at that it was a private table even though there was no sign anywhere indicating it was a private table. Another time a dealer called me an idiot for not doubling an A, 2 vs. a dealer 2.

And yes I did completely blow a hand, but it’s the history of "I don’t give a F***" attitude that I have been getting by the dealers is what will be keeping me away. The casinos bill gambling as "entertainment" but there is nothing entertaining about being treated poorly when you patronize their establishment. My last post I was trying to tell the readers a story about my last experience at MS and wondering if anyone can relate.

Yes I can relate. I have played many hours at Mohegan Sun and know the casino and the tribe very well. Hundreds of dealers work there including a few nasty, incompetent ones who are unhappy with life in general. It's unfortunate that you had to deal with so many but I'm not surprised.

Some of these people are tribal members and some are non tribal members who have miraculously discovered their Indian lineage. They are untouchable when it comes to losing their jobs or even being reprimanded. That is why their behavior and attitude will persist. Their non tribal superiors are reluctant to rock the boat because it could be their jobs on the line. Any employee who calls you an idiot or is rude or even unhelpful should be reported immediately and not to the pit boss. Ask for the pit manager or shift manager. He or she will listen and do their best to make you feel welcome and happy. Don't worry about the dealer because he or she will probably get a pass especially if "connected." Throwing money at the problem rather than dealing with it seems to be their way.

I never wave off insurance and there is no hand signal to do so. Simply sit there until the dealer closes it. This casino doesn't recognize a surrender signal either. You'd be surprised how many players point at their bet, say surrender and get a card. The cameras see the player point but they can't hear the word surrender.

I've run across you situation many times but I don't let a few jerks get to me. You shouldn't either.

I agree with 1BB's thoughtful response.

Honestly, I wouldn't tip dealers who aren't providing the service required to get tips. If they are doing the minimum at their jobs, then they deserve what they get paid, and nothing more.

Make your complaint, in writing and via email, and then let it go. Keep playing where you are happy.

In my opinion, a surrender signal should be chop motion (chopping something in half) or holding your thumb and index finger together while quickly rotating your wrist (waving little white flag). I have never played a blackjack table with surrender available. :( And I never thought of a signal when I dabbled in Spanish 21...lol But I just verbalized and it was fine.

Quote: tringlomane

In my opinion, a surrender signal should be chop motion (chopping something in half) or holding your thumb and index finger together while quickly rotating your wrist (waving little white flag). I have never played a blackjack table with surrender available. :( And I never thought of a signal when I dabbled in Spanish 21...lol But I just verbalized and it was fine.

Some casinos require the player to use their index finger to draw an imaginary line from left to right on the felt behind the bet as the surrender signal. Some have a plastic lammer with the word surrender on it for the cameras. Some have both.

Quote: 1BB

Some casinos require the player to use their index finger to draw an imaginary line from left to right on the felt behind the bet as the surrender signal. Some have a plastic lammer with the word surrender on it for the cameras. Some have both.

I was told by an Aria dealer one time that I should not make a surrender hand signal. She said she always confused it with a hit signal and would accidentally give a card if she saw a finger moving. She wanted me to just say "I surrender".

I see her point, but I wanted to make the signal for the cameras' sake.

Personally, I think no hand signal is best.

The cameras will see the dealer chop the bet. It's obvious.

And in the very unlikely case where the dealer heard something and thought she heard "surrender," it's very easy to fix while she's cutting the chips.

For the record, Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods both seem to have decided the signal to surrender is to beckon.

None of this is really relevant.

If you were not happy with the way you were treated, take your business elsewhere. You are the customer. Therefore, you are right. It sounds like the OP did exactly the right thing. He took his business elsewhere, and let them know exactly why.

Quote: 24Bingo

For the record, Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods both seem to have decided the signal to surrender is to beckon.

You can flail your arms, stand on your head or pretend to slit your throat but dealers are instructed to wait for the spoken word. It's all very lax until the dealer becomes the victim of a shot taker and has to call the floor. The old fool me once shame on you......

When both casinos first opened there was no official hand signal for splitting pairs. Some players would make one but the spoken word was accepted. The shot takers changed that as well. It is so ingrained in them now to ask that sometimes a dealer will say "one card" when a player is doubling a 10 or 11. I'll say something like let's see the card first and we have a little chuckle.

I agree that you need to stay away from Mohegan Sun. If the casino wanted your business, the pit boss could always do something to take care of you in an obvious situation like this. They basically are telling you that they don't care about you.

Here is a good counter example of great service. Last trip to Vegas, I was playing Pai Gow Poker and mistakenly set my hand as: K9, AA985 as I did not see the pair of nines. The dealer turned over my hand and my buddy pointed out the error and laughed at me. I pushed when I could have won the hand if I was not a moron.

The dealer called over the pit boss and he reset my hand and paid me $190 on my $200 bet.

That's why I'll be staying at Aria again when I go to Las Vegas Super Bowl weekend. They really do care about customer service. Aria had no obligation to pay me, and they made a goodwill gesture for $200 to take care of a customer. That's a class act and a place I am happy to spend my money.

Yes, stay away but make sure they know why which means a follow up. There's no question that mgreiche was treated shabbily but it most likely died with the pit boss who sees this over and over. Her version is going to be a disgruntled player who refused to color up, told her to throw his card in the garbage and then left in a huff. She shrugged it off as soon as the next checks play was called.

Back to the hand where he didn't get a chance to hit the eight. If he had stopped the dealer before the hand was completed and asked for a pit boss or even a floor I'm fairly certain they would have made it right. It happens all the time and they're smart enough to know that they'll get it all back and then some.

This goes back to the bigger issue-- the lack of effort on the part of Mohegan Sun to retain players. Neither Foxwoods or MS do much, frankly, but MS is really lame. My wife and I are amazed that even in the face of Mass casinos in a relatively short time (2 yrs?), they don't seem to be changing. Twin River in RI is set to have table games beginning summer of this year. Just saw huge billboard on 128 in Braintree promoting that. We just shake our heads....
Joe

Don't forget that Mohegan Sun is a frontrunner for one of those Massachusetts casinos.

Quote: 1BB

It is so ingrained in them now to ask that sometimes a dealer will say "one card" when a player is doubling a 10 or 11. I'll say something like let's see the card first and we have a little chuckle.

If the 10 is 5,5 you have to respond as you do. You just have to! Then when the 6 comes you can feign disgust and everything:-)

If I was the dealer I would have said are you sure you want to stay on 8? Then I would say really? Then okay. Three chances for me to catch the mistake. If I was floor I would have allowed you to take the next card (because they cannot back up cards)

I'm amused at the replies trying to justify the dealer's action in this hand. The first, second, and even third time that a customer makes a very unusual action, the dealer should verify it. After that, if someone is consistently screwing up, or playing very strangely, then fine, the dealer can stop double checking.

Verifying a stand on hard 8 is the right thing to do from an ethical, customer service, and business perspective.

I will agree though, that when you tip at the tables while receiving bad service, you shouldn't then be surprised to continue receiving bad service.

If anyone has seen these videos, you will learn 2 things about "professional dealers."

1. Hand signals reign supreme.
2. They are specifically told that "customer service" is not their bailiwick; it's the floor person's.

Quote: joehypnosis

Neither Foxwoods or MS do much, frankly, but MS is really lame.

Maybe they will think that the attitude will just make them fit in in Atlantic City. If so, they will be in for a big surprise. Resorts under Gomes and fil have provided quite decent service, except for very few exceptions.

Quote: 1BB

You can flail your arms, stand on your head or pretend to slit your throat but dealers are instructed to wait for the spoken word. It's all very lax until the dealer becomes the victim of a shot taker and has to call the floor. The old fool me once shame on you......

When both casinos first opened there was no official hand signal for splitting pairs. Some players would make one but the spoken word was accepted. The shot takers changed that as well. It is so ingrained in them now to ask that sometimes a dealer will say "one card" when a player is doubling a 10 or 11. I'll say something like let's see the card first and we have a little chuckle.

I thought dealers only said "one card?" if there was a chance that you could be splitting (eg, 55).

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I thought dealers only said "one card?" if there was a chance that you could be splitting (eg, 55).

That's how it should be but some will say it anytime the player puts chips next to his original bet. When a player has a 6 and a 5 he should automatically get one card but some dealers well.......

Quote: GH

If anyone has seen these videos, you will learn 2 things about "professional dealers."

Wow, that site also has extremely detailed tip information.

Quote: teddys

Quote: GH

If anyone has seen these videos, you will learn 2 things about "professional dealers."

Wow, that site also has extremely detailed tip information.

Look for, the union label... :)

Quote: 1BB

That's how it should be but some will say it anytime the player puts chips next to his original bet. When a player has a 6 and a 5 he should automatically get one card but some dealers well.......

If a dealer ever asks me that on an 11, I'm saying "no, split".

Mohegan Sun does not take good care of their customers. When getting a new player's card there was an outraged older gentleman next to me. $50.00 had been taken out of his comp account because he had supposedly not returned an extra towel that was requested to his hotel room. He had over $500 in his comp account, which says to me he is either a mid level player or has been going there for many years. The rep refused to do anything, saying that it is standard procedure to charge for a missing towel. The gentleman threw a fit and told the supervisor that he was going to go buy his wife a Christmas present with his comp points, then go home and shred his player's card and never come back again. Is it really worth it to a casino to lose a player over a towel?

What could the towel cost them in the quantity they buy? Five bucks?

Quote: EvenBob

Let me get this straight. You're staying away because you completely blew a hand because your head was up your butt ...

Well, it was his fault but that is a bit excessive a way to describe it.
Best to encourage him to learn his lesson: bored dealers don't care about you and will not act to correct your momentary lapses. So don't have a momentary lapse when the dealer is going to pounce on you anyway.

Quote: FleaStiff

Well, it was his fault but that is a bit excessive a way to describe it.
Best to encourage him to learn his lesson: bored dealers don't care about you and will not act to correct your momentary lapses. So don't have a momentary lapse when the dealer is going to pounce on you anyway.

I can't agree with this point of view. As a paying customer, you should demand excellent customer service and take your business elsewhere if you don't get it.

I agree with the vote with your feet concept though in this instance I'd probably say its his inattention that predominates though I would have expected a verbal "you are staying on "x", sir?"... since that should get the dealer another tip. Its clear the dealer doesn't care. I recall eons ago when my friend had 21 and three times tried to get an additional card. He wasn't drunk or anything, just not paying attention, but he knew enough to tip the dealer!

Here the dealer should have spoken up to an obvious slip due to conversation. Dealer didn't. Well, I don't think its all that serious since the player can remedy the situation by paying closer attention and not tipping the entire rest of the night.

One of the oldest adages in the gaming bizz comes immediately to mind..."Pay attention, or pay money".
Its not the Dealer fault that you are distracted... HOWEVER, if the OP isn't smacking the house, and Dealer offered insurance, and then stiffed your potential DD, then Dealer gets reprimanded, and you should have a play. JMH 2 chips

Understandable that you are upset. Foxwoods is always around the bend if you feel slighted at MS. But for the record, you did admit to not paying attention. And the dealer has no obligation to tell you that you should hit. Although a good dealer being tipped should say something.

This actually brings up an interesting experience I had last summer at the Monte Carlo. So I was gambling in evening hours at a blackjack table and the dealer was not a very friendly person. However, every time I broke with basic strategy, she would ask again: hit? stand? And she would do so very blatantly? There were several times the dealer had a 10, and I had between 12-16 and I would stand. She would ask repeatedly "Stand"? And yes I know I was deviating from the strategy. There were times, I'd be hitting when the dealer was showing 6 as the up-card. Long story short, I won at least 9 out of 10 times by not following basic strategy. She seemed a bit flustered that I now had 3 stacks of chips in front of me. But hey, she got a tip out of it, so it's all good right?

I think you just had a bad dealer. But if it poisons all future gambling experiences at MS, go to Foxwoods. You're always going to have at least 1 bad dealer experience. I had an instance where the same damn "bad luck" dealer followed me across 3 tables. And yeah I left the casino that trip pissed.

Did you have additional information, or were you just getting lucky?

I think a dealer can have different degrees of emphasis but at least she was speaking up when you were doing something "wrong" and giving you time to think about it. That is a good dealer and one who is earning the tips!

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Did you have additional information, or were you just getting lucky?

I was lucky and betting my gut. Plus I jumped into the shoe after a bunch of people lost a ton of money. I wound up starting my own win streak. I love doing that. Bucking the trend.

Quote: Fleastiff

I think a dealer can have different degrees of emphasis but at least she was speaking up when you were doing something "wrong" and giving you time to think about it. That is a good dealer and one who is earning the tips!

And you're absolutely right. A good dealer should speak up when the player is doing something "odd" or "wrong". It just so happens in my case that her recommendations seem to be more wrong than right. Like I said, I tipped her cause I was up and I thought she offered pretty good service despite having an angry look at my winnings.