Blackjack 21 + 3 side bet making a return.

I was at the M Resort on Sunday and they have altered two of their blackjack tables to now include the 21 + 3 side bet. This also means that they now have two less blackjack tables offering the Lucky Lucky side bet. The pit boss stated that to play the Lucky Lucky side bet the table limits would now be $15 and the tables offering the 21 + 3 would be $10. I don't know if she meant just for that day or always. Several local players did not seem to be happy about the change. Also the pit boss and dealers were promoting the side bet by stating, "play the new side bet 21+3," to which I stated I can't believe you are trying to bring back this old side bet. I first saw this side bet back in 2008 in Tunica I believe, maybe 2009.

On a good note, I did hit the straight flush for 30 to 1 on a $6 bet.

I was just in AC this weekend and they had rolled it out there too. Saw it at both Bally's and the Showboat. So maybe it's a CET thing. The interesting part was the min/max bet on the +3 sidebet was $5/$100...why not have a $1 min on a side bet?...It has to carry a huge house edge? The ploppies I was playing with were eating it up at $5 though, so maybe they know what they are doing. The paytable was Flush 5-1, straight 10-1, three of a kind, 30-1, straight flush 50-1.

Quote: vendman1

I was just in AC this weekend and they had rolled it out there too. Saw it at both Bally's and the Showboat. So maybe it's a CET thing. The interesting part was the min/max bet on the +3 sidebet was $5/$100...why not have a $1 min on a side bet?...It has to carry a huge house edge? The ploppies I was playing with were eating it up at $5 though, so maybe they know what they are doing. The paytable was Flush 5-1, straight 10-1, three of a kind, 30-1, straight flush 50-1.

That's a different pay table than I was playing: Flush 5-1, Straight 10-1, 3OAK 20-1, and Straight Flush 30-1.

Yea, I saw this +3 side bet at Mount Airy in Poconos, PA. So it isn't just a CET thing.

Weird thing is, all their payouts were the same! 9-1 for straight, flush, Str. Flush or 3 of a kind??

Haven't been back to Mt Airy since, but nobody was playing it then and I doubt it lasted long at that pay scale.

My understanding is 21+3 is always a $5 min type wager and has traditionally used the 9-1 payout for all pay events.

Galaxy bought the game as part of the Prime Table Games acquisition and has since instituted the various progressive pay tables. The single payout of 9-1 on all events was part of the simplicity and in my opinion appeal of the bet, not only to players, but also to dealers. It was easy to deal and getting 9-1 on those more frequent flushes and straights made up for the lower payouts on the less frequent events for the players.

Curious to know what those that play the side bet like better: the 9-1 on all payouts or the progressive payouts in the various paytables listed above?

I think bigger wins always excites players in general However, for members of this forum and others who understand advantage play and/or the house edge then the same payoff for all winning side bets makes more sense because it more likely means a lower house edge.

When I play Ultimate Texas Hold'em, I hear players always questioning players that don't play the side bet progressive, "Its only a $1 and you could win that huge pot." Even when I explained the huge house edge the players replied with its only a $1. When someone does hit the progressive, players talk about it for days, so it does create that "buzz" about the game, which game inventors/designers are hoping for, I believe. Therefore, since most players don't read this forum or abide by always making the best possible mathmatecial play, I would argue its better to have the increasing pay scale and a progressive if possible.

Are you guys sure this is the "21+3" side bet and not the "Double Action"/"Second Action" side bet?

As per the Wiz's 21+3 analysis, the 21+3 almost always pays 9-1 on all hits, or 2.5-1 with the addition of a pair.

I've seen the double action bet at many WA casinos, it is very similar but offers variable payouts. There is also the "Second Action" which is the same payouts, but matches the players hand with the dealer's hole card (as opposed to up card).

I'm sure it's possible that the owners of 21+3 have added the variable pay tables. Seems like a more player-friendly schedule anyway. Who wants to hit a straight flush and only get paid a lousy 9-1?

Yep, I'm sure it was 21+3 as I'm familar with it from it's first go round, and was very surprised to see it again. I think it's a crap side bet. But then again MOST are.

Quote: SONBP2

That's a different pay table than I was playing: Flush 5-1, Straight 10-1, 3OAK 20-1, and Straight Flush 30-1.

OK I'm a goofball..the paytable above is the same one I saw in AC on Nov 16-17th. Went back and checked my notes. I had previously posted 30-1 on TOK and 50-1 on st. flush thats wrong. Sorry for the error. Hope nobody booked a flight to AC based on that info :)

Quote: vendman1

OK I'm a goofball..the paytable above is the same one I saw in AC on Nov 16-17th. Went back and checked my notes. I had previously posted 30-1 on TOK and 50-1 on st. flush thats wrong. Sorry for the error. Hope nobody booked a flight to AC based on that info :)

If they booked a flight, they better be counting. 8 decks would still have a 3.35% house edge, 4.01 for 6 decks.

In the UK (well London casinos) 21+3 is hugely popular with well over half of all blackjack players playing it on every hand at £5 or £10 minimum.

The newest table layouts have 3 separate sidebets running at the same time.. 21+3, perfect pairs and one that pays upto 180-1 for straight flush or 3oak.

I have seen 3 people playing in one box with a total of 12 separate bets in just that one box. One a busy night you can easily have over 20 separate bets on 1 table. Crazy!!!

Quote: SONBP2

That's a different pay table than I was playing: Flush 5-1, Straight 10-1, 3OAK 20-1, and Straight Flush 30-1.

I have seen this table popping up all over Vegas and Tunica. I thought it was a good idea to change the 9 to 1 paytable, but not when it turns into a 13.39% house edge for 6 decks!

Quote: tringlomane

I have seen this table popping up all over Vegas and Tunica. I thought it was a good idea to change the 9 to 1 paytable, but not when it turns into a 13.39% house edge for 6 decks!

I know its pure luck, but I simply can't win playing blackjack without these side bets. Just as an example, I played for about an hour at Red Rock on Saturday night, double deck, was averaging winning about 2/10 hands, but was hitting the pair square bet enough that I broke even. Even the dealer commented when I had a winning hand, it was clear how bad I was getting crushed. On Sunday, some friends took me to the M Buffet for my birthday and again won about 3-4/10, but did well on the 21+3 side bet that I ended with a nice profit. It is unreal how bad I get crushed playing blackjack. I gave up playing blackjack for a little over a year because I went three months without a winning session. Like I said though, it is pure luck, but the side bets are the only reason I started playing blackjack again. I know it violates the Wizard's number #1 rule. Sorry Wiz.

Quote: SONBP2

On Sunday, some friends took me to the M Buffet for my birthday and again won about 3-4/10, but did well on the 21+3 side bet that I ended with a nice profit. It is unreal how bad I get crushed playing blackjack.

Remember that you are SUPPOSED to lose a lot more hands than you win. You make up for it by splitting and doubling correctly, and collecting 3:2 on blackjacks (ie, your average win is higher than your average loss). This is why the 6:5 games are such ripoffs.

Quote: dealerwins

In the UK (well London casinos) 21+3 is hugely popular with well over half of all blackjack players playing it on every hand at £5 or £10 minimum.

The newest table layouts have 3 separate sidebets running at the same time.. 21+3, perfect pairs and one that pays upto 180-1 for straight flush or 3oak.

We have just had a perfect pair/ 21+3 double side bet table. It has roughly halved our hands per hour with a full table of players playing both. and wee use csm's.

Before that all our tables just had 21+3, and it was pretty popular.

21+3 with all 9-1 payoffs has a 3.2% advantage for the house. It's far superior to Lucky Lucky in terms of house profits because the max is usually $100 on it rather than the $25 common on the high odds side bets. Horseshoe Hammond allows $500 bets on 21+3 and you can still bet $10 on the regular bet. Many players there bet $50 on the main blackjack bet and $500 on the +3 side bet.

Unfortunately they changed the payoffs from 9-1 to the vastly inferior 5/10/20/30 paytable. Most of the EV comes from the Flush, thus the 5:1 payoff on the Flush is a real killer.