debitncredit
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
• Posts: 156
November 1st, 2012 at 7:56:57 AM permalink
I checked out a promotion last night. If a player does not bust on the 5th card, you get to spin a wheel for free play (the 5 card total does not need to beat the dealer to spin the wheel):

The wheel has 12 spots with the following amounts:

9 spots: \$20
2 spots: \$50
1 spot: \$100

That gives the expected value of 20*(9/12)+50*(2/12)+100*(1/12) = \$31.67 for a spin.

The table rules are 8D, H17, DAS, No RSA, One card for split aces, and no surrender with a limit \$5 to \$100.

Everyone was flat betting \$5 to get the 5 card charlie. I played for 3 hours, hit 5-card charlie 5 times (one \$100 and four \$20) and up \$100 overall.

I was hitting a four card 17 against a dealer highs, but I probably also hit my two low cards against the dealer stiff. I think I can get a positive EV if I play correctly (even though it's a \$5 game), but I think the house edge would be when people are busting more often to hit the 5 cards.

I'm curious to know what would be the optimal strategy.
ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
• Posts: 935
November 1st, 2012 at 9:00:50 AM permalink
Quote: debitncredit

...I'm curious to know what would be the optimal strategy.

Wow, what a fun promotion!

Here is my preliminary strategy for a \$5 bet:

4 cards: Stand on hard 20 and 21. Stand on hard 19 except against 10.

3 cards: Stand on hard 18-21. Stand on hard 17 except against ace. Stand on hard 16 against 2-6.

2 cards: Stand on soft 20-21. Stand on soft 19 against 7-8. Stand on hard 17-21. Stand on hard 14-16 vs 2-6. Stand on 13 vs 3-6. Double 11 vs 2-6, and double 10 vs 4-6.

Pairs: Split all 7's and 8's. Split 9's except against 10. Split 6's except against 10 or ace. Split 4's vs 4-6. Split 3's vs 6.

I assume that the player's 5-card hand doesn't also get paid \$5 if it beats the dealer or lose \$5 if the dealer beats it.
debitncredit
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
• Posts: 156
November 1st, 2012 at 10:46:35 AM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Wow, what a fun promotion!

Pairs: Split all 7's and 8's. Split 9's except against 10. Split 6's except against 10 or ace. Split 4's vs 4-6. Split 3's vs 6.

The 5-card charlie was for the first two cards plus extra cards, but thanks for the analysis.

Quote: ChesterDog

Wow, what a fun promotion!

I assume that the player's 5-card hand doesn't also get paid \$5 if it beats the dealer or lose \$5 if the dealer beats it.

5-card hand plays on against the dealer independent of the wheel spinning.

It was a pretty fun promo. If anything else, I kept me from overbetting. I'm curious to know whether the promo is extra profitable for the casino: The promo prizes paid out vs. players busting more trying to get the promo spin.

Again, thank you for the analysis ChesterDog.
ShiftyRicky
Joined: Feb 25, 2012
• Posts: 84
November 1st, 2012 at 1:27:24 PM permalink
If the prize from the wheel is free play, then the casino is out 0.

Yes, the casino makes money off of this. Like you stated "i was hittings 4 card 17's" anytime you "force" or give the player the idea of getting more if they go against BS, the house edge goes up.

As for the math part, maybe some of the members that are great with math can help.

Short of a player, playing the free play to optimal strategy, more often than not the casino, isn't out much if anything.
"Does the sign outside still say Casino?...okay then"
strictlyAP
Joined: Jun 20, 2012
• Posts: 983
November 1st, 2012 at 1:43:25 PM permalink
I have seen this play before, trust me it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyyyyyyyy profitable, i would have taken the whole table between three players and played all night-
last promo where that was offered was a very profitable night
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
strictlyAP
Joined: Jun 20, 2012
• Posts: 983
November 1st, 2012 at 1:43:43 PM permalink
let me know when they have it again and ill fly in right away
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
• Posts: 5444
November 1st, 2012 at 2:09:51 PM permalink
Yeah, that is a ree-dic-u-lous player advantage. Obviously, none of the people in the promotions department took the Wizard's gaming math class ... :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
debitncredit
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
• Posts: 156
November 1st, 2012 at 2:58:11 PM permalink
Quote: strictlyAP

let me know when they have it again and ill fly in right away

http://www.downstreamcasino.com/images/content/poster/poster_blackjackpartypitNOV.jpg

This is the promo. Here's the deal:

For 5 card charlie, the wheel has \$20 (9 slots), \$50 (2 slots), and \$100 (1 slot).

From what I heard, for 6 card charlie and suited-BJ, the wheel has \$50 (9 slots), \$75 or \$100 (I'm not sure) (2 slots), and \$200 or \$500 (I'm not sure) (1 slot).

The promo goes for 5 hours at a pit that is usually closed. I got there 15 mins after it started and there was 1 seat left, which I took. Apparently, people take up spots 30 mins before it starts and pretty much no one leaves.

I think it may be positive EV for the player, but the overall winnings may not be much because you'd only bet \$5. In other words, if you bet \$25, the amounts on the wheel stay the same.

Anyway, I think it's a fun promo.
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
• Posts: 11933
November 1st, 2012 at 4:14:46 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
debitncredit
Joined: Jul 4, 2012