Need help with a basic strategy chart for Black Jack with an interesting rule for the player.

Hello all,

I currently found a Black Jack game with very small max usually between 300-500 but this game allows the player to redouble any time. For example, if you double 9 vs x and bet 100 and catch a 2, you can redouble 100 on your current hand of 11 so you can win 3 bets as opposed to 2. You can redouble any hand, which would change a majority of the the soft doubles and im assuming it makes doubles 7s correct against 5-6.

The rules of the game are this. It's 6 deck, stand on 17, double any time, resplit aces, European surrender where Dealer peeks after all hit cards. However, the cut is horrible around 2.5 decks making card counting very difficult.

The casino is very small and I think the threshold would range around 15-25k before they back you off. My guess is with a correct basic strategy given this extra double, I can just flat bet table max as long as the count is not too bad.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

If you double, but do not redouble, can you hit after a double?

Quote: kkeezie

The rules of the game are this. It's 6 deck, stand on 17, double any time, resplit aces, European surrender where Dealer peeks after all hit cards. However, the cut is horrible around 2.5 decks making card counting very difficult.

I am puzzled why a casino would institute such a rule that benefits players without an offsetting rule to benefit the casino. Do they pay 6:5 ?

You cannot hit after a double. Black Jack pays 3-2. I can't believe this game is offered it's almost too good to be true. Only thing is you can't beat them for a big number.

Does anyone know where I can buy Black Jack software where I can implement this rule to calculate the perfect Basic Strategy and determine my edge if I play perfect? I would love to just flat bet table max as long as the true count isn't too bad. Even if the count is bad flat betting table max would be optimal since they really can't back me off if i never fluctuate related to the running count.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I hope that someone can figure this out. It's beyond my capabilities, but I strongly believe that there are not going to be a great number of hands that you would Double when you would not normally do so.

The Seven total against a Dealer 5-6 is a good example...and maybe even against a Dealer 4, not immediately sure about that one. The opportunity for a re-double is limited, though, there are only four values (A-4) with which you definitely re-double, so that's 4/13 assuming equal distribution * the probability of being dealt a total of Seven in the first place. You'd also want to Double a total of 8, but then, that leaves only two possible results for a re-double, as you would stand on S19, regardless. It's also still not like these hands are a guaranteed win, so they cannot be assumed as such.

The point is, someone had done the Math on this game and has determined that there is some HE there, at least, I would assume so. I would probably suggest that it comes from the fact that the re-double possibilites are few enough that they simply cut down, rather than eliminate, the HE. I don't see how the casino could offer a game where a player could flat bet at an advantage with optimal play, much less just playing a Modified Basic Strategy. If that is the case, though, I can fairly safely assure you that it won't be there for long, so take advantage while it is there (or until some other Rule gets changed) while you can if it can be determined that the Math results in a PE.

There may not be an edge.

Unlimited Redoubling is allowed in some versions of Spanish 21, but the rule addition only reduces the house edge of the H17 game by +0.34%. I suspect in BJ the effect could be better, since you double more and are more likely to hit a 10 when you do double. However, the European hole card rule knocks off about -0.11%.

In the end, you are probably facing an edge around 0.1%-0.2% instead of 0.43% for your S17 game.

I wouldn't attack this game with large flat bets, the variance will be much higher than BJ and I'm not sure it's beatable.

Yeah, mission is right. It will affect the HE much less than you think due to lack of good additional scenarios.

Spanish 21 occasionally has offered redoubling, and the Wizard has done the math on that. The benefit of redoubling wouldn't totally wipe away the edge in the game you describe. And in Spanish 21, redoubling should more valuable because if things go real sour, you can double-down surrender.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/spanish-21/

Dealer hits on soft 17, redoubling allowed: 0.42%
Dealer hits on soft 17, redoubling not allowed: 0.76%

Bah, dw beat me to this. lol

Quote: tringlomane

Yeah, mission is right. It will affect the HE much less than you think due to lack of good additional scenarios.

Spanish 21 occasionally has offered redoubling, and the Wizard has done the math on that. The benefit of redoubling wouldn't totally wipe away the edge in the game you describe. And in Spanish 21, redoubling should more valuable because if things go real sour, you can double-down surrender.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/spanish-21/

Dealer hits on soft 17, redoubling allowed: 0.42%
Dealer hits on soft 17, redoubling not allowed: 0.76%

Bah, dw beat me to this. lol

Also in Spanish 21, the redouble is the full amount already bet, not just the original. $5 original bet. Double with another $5. The redouble would be for $10, and if you are ever so lucky, the final redouble of $20 for a total of $40 on just one hand.

The other posters I ninja'd are right. The effect would not be as strong in BJ, due to the aforementioned issues.

I am going to conclude: not a +EV game.