overheard saying dealers make commission

Quote: rdw4potus

I color up and down all the time. I like to think of it as a curse/karma. At the end of every shoe, I color up back down to approximately my buy in (if I'm up). Then, it feels like without fail, 3 hands later I pull off a 4 times split 3 times doubled loser (probably to one of your 7-card 21s:-) ), and i'm reaching into my pocket and trying not to curse.

It doesn't really bother me when players do it, but I often see eye rolling and exasperated sighs from the other players. I just smile and say "Sure!" when they toss me a green and say, "Can I get some reds."

Honestly, when someone colors up to black I hope they'll keep it long enough to take it to the cage and go home with some money in their pocket. Unless of course they're an abusive douche, then I'm happy to cheque change it to reds and take it all back.

Bad monkey! I think you hurt his feelings. jjjoooggg if your still here? did you mean einstein? And if so I wouldn't hang with those people no more they are lying to you. :)

Quote: rainman

Bad monkey! I think you hurt his feelings.

Couldn't have been me, I didn't question whether or not English was his native language. I only suggested that less ambiguity and more articulation would get better results.

Quote: rainman

jjjoooggg if your still here?

Please. No one ever raises that kind of stink if they don't intend to hang around and wait for the "Oh please, come back" replies.

O.K. it was me that questioned his first language,but I didn`t mean it as an insult.It`s just that his post`s were very confusing.

I think Monkey is obsessed with me, you have a compulsion to fixate on people. Relax, don't over analyze and take things less personally.

Actually, there was someone else on this forum "sevenshooter" said under thread "Flat betting with Zen count" that he is tired of the "negativity/ attitude" here. And he left. I was just waiting to see if it is true.

Actually, there was someone else on this forum "sevenshooter" said under thread "Flat betting with Zen count" that he is tired of the "negativity/ attitude" here. And he left. I was just waiting to see if it is true. I usually will pull myself out of environments like this on forums, local clubs, and work places that are hostile. Its my rule. Its my limitation. Yall have a thick skin.

For everyone, thanks for your help. I learned some new things.

Quote: jjjoooggg

Actually, there was someone else on this forum "sevenshooter" said under thread "Flat betting with Zen count" that he is tired of the "negativity/ attitude" here. And left. I was just waiting to see if it is true.

I just read the monkey's posts in this thread and they are all filled with accurate and knowledgeable info. Sharp and to the point. personally the way I like it. Stick around one can learn a lot from the people here. Don't mistake people telling you like it is for negativity. That play has negative EV.

RRRiiiggghhhttt SSSuuurrreee. I'm not born yesterday. I worked in a restaurant for 15 years.

Quote: jjjoooggg

I think Monkey is obsessed with me, you have a compulsion to fixate on people. Relax, don't over analyze and take things less personally.

Careful now, you're teetering on the edge of personal insult which is forbidden on this forum.

Quote: jjjoooggg

Actually, there was someone else on this forum "sevenshooter" said under thread "Flat betting with Zen count" that he is tired of the "negativity/ attitude" here. And he left. I was just waiting to see if it is true.

Wait... you said he left and now you're waiting to find out if it's true that he left?

And, hang on a second, I thought YOU left too?

This is getting more confusing with each page.

Your funny

No I'm not going to play a child's game.

What's REALLY annoying, is the guy that hands me 5 white and wants a red. This happens A TON. Just a lot of kids that've never played and seem to think those chips aren't supposed to be played. They also don't realize what a hassle that would be. Of course I tell them just to play it, and I'll convert when they win.

I also hate when a guy is playing $100 a hand in green, has a good shoe and takes like a third of my green to the cage to cash out. But on the next shoe is buying in again halfway through. Thanks for taking my green and making things difficult for me, you douche.

Or, on a game like Mississippi Stud. The guy has $5 left and makes the ante. Then after the cards come out buys in so he can chase a shitty hand. Why not buy in before the cards come out??? This isn't much of a big deal, just a minor annoyance.

Why do these things annoy you and why do you let them? Those kids that never played before have to learn just like we all did.

Quote: jjjoooggg

RRRiiiggghhhttt SSSuuurrreee. I'm not born yesterday. I worked in a restaurant for 15 years.

OK, so don't ask foolish and naive questions, then. Seems easy enough. Unless...hey, did you happen to own part of that restaurant?

Quote: rdw4potus

OK, so don't ask foolish and naive questions, then. Seems easy enough. Unless...hey, did you happen to own part of that restaurant?

lol, rdw. You beat me to that post! I am thinking the same thing. For those that don't believe in reincarnation, they should hang around on a forum. It happens all the time. :-D

Or, on a game like Mississippi Stud. The guy has $5 left and makes the ante. Then after the cards come out buys in so he can chase a shitty hand. Why not buy in before the cards come out??? This isn't much of a big deal, just a minor annoyance.

I admit, I do this. Quite often actually. If I'm down to my last red I'll ante and if the hand is worth playing I'll reach into my pocket. If not, I'll fold and be on my way. Had no idea that might annoy some dealers. It doesn't mean I'll stop doing it. It's my money and I've probably already tipped the guy at least five bucks since I always get five whites when I buy in. Maybe we need a dealer annoyance thread. I might change my mind on how I tip.

Quote: texasplumr

If I'm down to my last red I'll ante and if the hand is worth playing I'll reach into my pocket. If not, I'll fold and be on my way. Had no idea that might annoy some dealers. It doesn't mean I'll stop doing it. It's my money and I've probably already tipped the guy at least five bucks since I always get five whites when I buy in.

It doesn't bother me, but as I said above I've seen it register as annoyance for the other players. The only time that sort of thing bugs me is when someone waits until the middle of a hand to get $100 in red when I was just shuffling a hand or two ago. Buying in one last time to try that double down or split is one thing, waiting to do the "big" buy in you know you're going to want until it inconveniences everyone at the table is another. And still it only bothers me in as much as I see the player impacting the experience for the other players.

Quote: texasplumr

Maybe we need a dealer annoyance thread. I might change my mind on how I tip.

All you need to know is that when someone is being a douche at the table it's time to tip or tell them to shut the hell up (and then tip). :)

Another loser. I think we need a new forum rules, We should only agree withpostersand then console them when they lose.

The current method od honest replies is akin to teaching a pig to sing.

It waste you time and annoys the pig.

Quote: buzzpaff

Another loser. I think we need a new forum rules, We should only agree withpostersand then console them when they lose.

Hmmm... normally I get paid to do that.

Well, my commission check from the Wiz was short this month. I suspect T. Dane's moving expenses were involved !

Quote: ewjones080

What's REALLY annoying, is the guy that hands me 5 white and wants a red. This happens A TON. Just a lot of kids that've never played and seem to think those chips aren't supposed to be played. They also don't realize what a hassle that would be. Of course I tell them just to play it, and I'll convert when they win

It could be worse - you can be in Australia, where some guy comes up to you, hands you $5, and asks for one red, after which he thanks you and walks away. (I say Australia because, for some incredibly strange reason, you cannot get chips for cash from the cage; they tell you to go to a table. I had this happen to me in both Melbourne and Sydney. Fortunately all around, both times I managed to find an empty table with a dealer, so I wasn't delaying anyone's play, and the dealers didn't seem to mind.)

Speaking of coloring up and buying in, how much of a hassle is it if I try to buy in at a crap table with $200 and ask for five greens and the rest in reds? (If it's a $10 table, I want to play red-red pass and green-red odds.)

Quote: ThatDonGuy

It could be worse - you can be in Australia, where some guy comes up to you, hands you $5, and asks for one red, after which he thanks you and walks away. (I say Australia because, for some incredibly strange reason, you cannot get chips for cash from the cage; they tell you to go to a table. I had this happen to me in both Melbourne and Sydney. Fortunately all around, both times I managed to find an empty table with a dealer, so I wasn't delaying anyone's play, and the dealers didn't seem to mind.)

I've had guys walk up and change $500 and walk with it. I probably get it for around $100 at least once a week. It's only really bothersome if it means I'll need to get a fill as a result, but usually I can work around it by converting others winning bets when I pay them, so effectively the inconvenience caused is passed on to the players at the table.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Speaking of coloring up and buying in, how much of a hassle is it if I try to buy in at a crap table with $200 and ask for five greens and the rest in reds? (If it's a $10 table, I want to play red-red pass and green-red odds.)

I don't deal craps but I don't think of that kind of request as a big deal.

Alot of this depends upon dealer attitude which can vary as the shift progresses and management changes.

Many casinos foster an Us versus Them attitude where players are their to hurt the casino and therefore hurt the dealers. Such sweat the money joints are not happy places to work or to play. A neophyte on a monster roll who winds up with his Nickle passline bet betting him another nickle is a win for the casino dealers who stood their and kept their yaps shut about come and place bets.

In places like that crews can often look for a little extra taxation as well.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

It could be worse - you can be in Australia, where some guy comes up to you, hands you $5, and asks for one red, after which he thanks you and walks away. (I say Australia because, for some incredibly strange reason, you cannot get chips for cash from the cage; they tell you to go to a table. I had this happen to me in both Melbourne and Sydney. Fortunately all around, both times I managed to find an empty table with a dealer, so I wasn't delaying anyone's play, and the dealers didn't seem to mind.)

I think it used to be the same here where I deal because we had the loss limit ($500 every 2 hours) so every time you buy in, dealers would take your player's card, swipe it to see how much you already buy in. No more of that now.

Quote:

Speaking of coloring up and buying in, how much of a hassle is it if I try to buy in at a crap table with $200 and ask for five greens and the rest in reds? (If it's a $10 table, I want to play red-red pass and green-red odds.)

I don't think it's a hassle for anyone. On the craps table, you can do almost anything, $5 on the pass, and you want $20 odds, you can put the green chip behind the pass line and say to the dealer "(I want) $20 odds", make sure you get his attention, after the roll (or right away) he would cheque change for you and give you $5 change. Point is 6 or 8, you don't have a pass line bet, want to place $18 on the line, put $20 down there, say "$18 on the line", and the dealer will cheque change, put $3 on top of your $15, and give $2 back to you.

I always try to behave my best at the craps table because it's a fast game and you don't want to piss off the dealers: middle bets/horn bets/hop bets when the dice are still in the middle is the most important thing. When the shooter got the dice, the stick, the base dealer on his side and the box man will look at him to make sure everything is ok, so they don't like it when they hear "$5 horn, $1 yo, $2 C&E..." on the other side of the table. You do it once or twice, they'd let you pass. On the 3rd time, the box man might say something. Except when I'm shooting, I sometimes want to middle bet even when the dice already pushed to me (I'm always nice to the dealers so they kinda take it easy on me and I'm always right next to the stick so the chips don't run very far anyway).

And to answer the question of the thread: NO, NO and NO. If the dealers make commission on how much the players lose at the table, how to determine that? And what if the players win a whole bunch of money, would the dealers have to pay back to the casino. That's a very silly question. (but I used to think about that when I first gambled too. LOL)

Not only would it be cumbersome to keep track of how much a player had lost and which dealers were owed an extra commission but it would actually be more profitable if the casino paid dealers a bonus for having the customers win, since nothing brings in more customers like the successful winners. That is the best advertising of all.

Indeed, one can view the practice of tipping as being just that: an incentive for the dealers to see that the players win, since tips are larger when made by exuberant winners. The money comes from the players but is administered and doled out by the House and reflects a sort of "commission" based on the totality of the player's experience.

Player wins or losses are pure variance which are very large compared to the EV the house makes. Giving commission based on the swings of variance is an economically bad decision, because variance will almost cancel out in the long run - while paid comission does not cancel out.

Thats why the house pays "comission" (comps to the player) based on total play (theoretical house income), not on total wins and losses (actual house income).

Quote: MangoJ

Thats why the house pays "comission" (comps to the player) based on total play (theoretical house income), not on total wins and losses (actual house income).

Most casinos simply adjust the comps paid on "theo" to reflect extremely unusual actual results such as a rapid and total loss of entire bankroll. An extra meal comp goes a long way if Lady Luck took a massive bite out of a family's bankroll, but the usual comp formula applies to "Theo".

Sure, that extra players meal on an extreme loss is a nice gesture - to keep the player from returning.

All I was saying was, one cannot build a comission system based on variance alone (neither for the player nor for the dealer), because it won't work as naively expected. Variance is the wrong measure to evaluate efficiency of your operations.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

It could be worse - you can be in Australia, where some guy comes up to you, hands you $5, and asks for one red, after which he thanks you and walks away.

I like to collect white/red chips as a cheap souvenir. Yes I realize that they are casino property and I apologize if that offends anyone. When the cage rejects me, I have swung by a table.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Not the late Don Angelini, I assume ? Alias : Wizard Of Odds