More Baccarat winnings

Last Wednesday I went to Macau and cashed in at the Sands for HK$40,000 in order to be noticed but I was planning to only risk 10k. I arrived at the high limits tables at around 5am Bd all the other players had a diamond player's card and were betting tens of thousands per hand. I also noticed that they installed new tables with dead chips; one had a minimum bet of $80,000 and a maximum bet of $1,500,000. Betting 1k-3k a hand I quickly lost 5k. At that point I bet the other 5k I was planning to risk on the banker and the player turned over 8 points. I let out some swear words and quickly flipped my cards, ready to leave when I realized I had 9 points. It all went uphill from here and I cashed out HK$65,000 at around 8am. It was my first time with a green HK$50,000 chip. I then went to the Wynn where the atmosphere was much more relaxed: Sands players seem to be compulsive gamblers while Wynn players seem to have so much money that they can laugh about losing tens of thousand of dollars. A guy was betting the pair bet about 3/4th of the time and never won but every single times he forgot to bet it there was a pair. I cashed in the Wynn for 5k, quickly lost it, bought in for another 5k and bet it all on banker and I kept going until I ended up HK$1,500. I would have been up 2,500 if I didn't do the stupid 2x500 pair bet with 'house money' (or up 8,000 if I had done the bet at the right time). I then went to a casino that gave a $50 match play chip for new members and I won three $100 bets on Sic Bo before losing. I am happy to still be on the right side of the bell curve despite playing several times.

Nice report, thanks.

Can you explain the dead chip tables?

Quote: teddys

Nice report, thanks.

Can you explain the dead chip tables?

Dead chips can be bet but cannot be cashed in. If you buy in for at least $300,000 you can get dead chips and they can be bet at high roller table where you get paid with normal chips when winning. When you lost all your dead chips you get a percentage back depending on how much your buy in was. This reduces the house edge for high rollers but I doubt I'll qualify for these any time soon.

Another thing I found interesting is that at high limit tables they let you see the cards without betting if nobody wants to bet while in regular tables someone has to bet for the cards to be drawn. Although there was a sign that said bets had to be in increments of $500 they let people that bet over 10k a hand bet weird amounts like $10,150 and when I tried betting $2,250 they asked me to bet in increments of $500.

Quote: HKrandom

Another thing I found interesting is that at high limit tables they let you see the cards without betting if nobody wants to bet while in regular tables someone has to bet for the cards to be drawn. Although there was a sign that said bets had to be in increments of $500 they let people that bet over 10k a hand bet weird amounts like $10,150 and when I tried betting $2,250 they asked me to bet in increments of $500.

They are probably hoping that the HK$150 bets will become tips.

I note that tipping the dealers is fairly common here in the U.S.

How is the tipping culture in Macau?

Stiffs, George's, or somewhere inbetween?

I have never seen anyone give a tip to a dealer in Macau and I have been quite often to every major casino. Even high rollers betting HK$100k a hand don't tip. I'm not even sure it is allowed since some might view it as collusion. On the other hand players get charged for anything other than drinks; I was charged HK$75 for a pack of cigarettes worth half that even though I had been playing at high limits for a few hours. The only places where I've seen tipping was in strip clubs and saunas.

Just lost US$1000 on Pinnaclesports. Life sucks. I guess the days of fancy lifestyle with easy money are over.

The "flag post" is a great feature. People who want to hijack threads for bogus systems are summarily executed. Thank you to my fellow flaggers, whoever you are.

For "dead chips" -- a person who brings 100k to the table may get 103k in "dead chips". These chips need to be washed, that means that they have to be lost. Any winnings with these chips are redeemed in ordinary chips. However, the ordinary chips cannot be wagered until all of the dead chips are lost.

To see the edge,

For a player who is wagering on banker, the probability of winning a hand is p = 0.4585974. So, the number of wagers necessary to lose 1 chip is X = 1/p = 2.18056. So to lose 103k in dead chips requires 103000*2.18056 = 224598 in wagers. But, the house advantage on banker bets is 1.0579%. So out of the 224598 in wagers, the house wins back 0.010579*224598 = 2376. Thus, out of the 103000 the player starts with in dead chips, he is left with 103000 - 2376 = 100624 in live chips that can be played or cashed, for a 624 chip gain. Thus a 3% dead chip program has a player edge of 624/100000 = 0.624%. But, this is often what's done. Then the second 100k gets a 2% dead chip rebate, and the ones after that get 1%. The first round of dead chips is a player incentive. The "dead chips" after that just lower the house edge.

2k in dead chips requires 102000*2.18056 = 222417 in wagers to wash. The house wins back 0.010579*222417 = 2353. The the player is left with 102000 - 2353 = 99647, for a 353 house win, or a house edge of 0.353%.

You can now do the 1k dead chip calculation.

[ref. Casino Operations Management, 2nd ed., Kilby, Fox & Lucas]

Hope this helps.

--Dorothy

Quote: HKrandom

Last Wednesday I went to Macau and cashed in at the Sands for HK$40,000 in order to be noticed but I was planning to only risk 10k. I arrived at the high limits tables at around 5am Bd all the other players had a diamond player's card and were betting tens of thousands per hand. I also noticed that they installed new tables with dead chips; one had a minimum bet of $80,000 and a maximum bet of $1,500,000. Betting 1k-3k a hand I quickly lost 5k. At that point I bet the other 5k I was planning to risk on the banker and the player turned over 8 points. I let out some swear words and quickly flipped my cards, ready to leave when I realized I had 9 points. It all went uphill from here and I cashed out HK$65,000 at around 8am. It was my first time with a green HK$50,000 chip. I then went to the Wynn where the atmosphere was much more relaxed: Sands players seem to be compulsive gamblers while Wynn players seem to have so much money that they can laugh about losing tens of thousand of dollars. A guy was betting the pair bet about 3/4th of the time and never won but every single times he forgot to bet it there was a pair. I cashed in the Wynn for 5k, quickly lost it, bought in for another 5k and bet it all on banker and I kept going until I ended up HK$1,500. I would have been up 2,500 if I didn't do the stupid 2x500 pair bet with 'house money' (or up 8,000 if I had done the bet at the right time). I then went to a casino that gave a $50 match play chip for new members and I won three $100 bets on Sic Bo before losing. I am happy to still be on the right side of the bell curve despite playing several times.

Not only is this a great story I also learned what an HK was. :) However one thing i can't figure out is what "betting the pair bet" means. I assume this is a bet in a game that i don't play but it's not obvious to me what game you were playing. I also may or may not be drinking at the moment. :)

In baccarat each side starts with 2 cards and the pair bet is a side bet that these 2 cards will be of same value (two jacks for example). Since there is 1 chance out of 13 to get a pair but the bet only pays 11:1 the house edge is rather large.

Oh, ok. Thanks for explaining it. My baccarat experience is limited to bodog's free game which doesn't appear to have that side bet.