I realize that many do not believe that what I am saying is possible, but I am not asking for discussions about the merit of my strategy.
What I need are ideas about how to sell my strategy. I know I could write a book, etc. But there has to be an easier way, especially if my strategy is as profitble as I believe - especially for high rollers. I could place ads on Craigslist under "Businesses for Sale," or I could auction it off on E-Bay. Any other ideas would be welcomed?
As I said, I don't have the money to sustain the low swings, especially because I am not wanting to bet on every single hand of a shoe - only on select hands. So, it takes a long time for the advantage to assert itself. This is why my strategy is suited for high rollers. Remember, I still have the advantage, but one must be very patient if using a small bankroll.
Again, any ideas besides "why don't you use it yourself" are welcomed please.
Quote: StevenBlackBy the way, I can demonstrate the validity of my strategy by betting with "fake money" on online blackjack websites and showing how much I win. Or, a professional dealer could be hired, and I could use non-tradionally colored chips (that initially only I know the value of) to bet with, and after a certain time period we could see how much I have won.
Why not use your own money? Just start at $1 or $2 tables, and work your way up until you can afford to use your system at higher-denominated tables.
Quote: StevenBlackI am not wanting to bet on every single hand of a shoe - only on select hands. So, it takes a long time for the advantage to assert itself. This is why my strategy is suited for high rollers.
If your strategy is based in any way on the idea that a player can enter and exit a shoe at will in a high-stakes live blackjack game, I think you'll be disappointed by the reality that this is a behavior that is very much frowned upon.
Quote: StevenBlackI am not wanting to bet on every single hand of a shoe - only on select hands.
Any strategy that you would want to sell must be able to be played at real casinos. You will not be able to come in and out of a shoe without eventually being refused the right to play. It sounds as if your 'strategy' is some form of card counting, which is nothing new. I think you will have a difficult time selling it if you have never actually done it for real in a casino. But good luck.
Some casinos offer < $5 tables - but require a 25¢ ante.
There may be casinos that offer it without the ante. Sahara offers no ante $1 tables, but pays BJ at 1:1. Then again, that info will only be helpful for another 3 days...
If your system works for "special chips" it works for ordinary chips.
If your system is going to work for others, its going to work for you. So invest your money and when you buy The Venetian let us know.
If you think you are beating a house edge by a betting system, write a book instead and by no means use your own money. Good luck with the book.
No, the idea of special chips is to conceal the nuts and bolts of how I am employing my system for a potential buyer. We hire a professional dealer, and I play "privately," for no real money, in a hotel room. I may use bet with a black chip (which of course is usually $100) on a few hands. But instead of the chip being worth $100, I may have deemed its value (on a piece of paper before play began) as $10. Not even the dealer needs to know the value I have ascribed to the various chips. (All the dealer would need to know is what colored chip equals half of another chip in the event that I get blackjack.). Then, after days of play, I reveal to the potential buyer the value of each colored chip as I have deemed them, and we can see how much I won.
If I do say so myself, I thought this was a particularly clever way to demonstrate the validity of a "system" without revealing its nuts and bolts. I thought of it on the way to work one day.
Yes, I will let you all know if I make it big. You all have been a help so far. For some reason, the users of the forums on this website seem more friendly and less rude than the users of the forums on another particular blackjack site I had been frequenting - so thank you!
So your challenge would be to line up enough prospects, and to decide if you can live with yourself. Also, you need to have a quick way to get out of town without a trace. Check with a lawyer too.
I am thinking of selling these
Useless Machines
However, in order for you to sell your strategy, you must be able to prove your success in a real casino. After all, real casinos have other challenges that online fake money games don't have. Like pit boss breathing down your neck if you win too much money, or being blacklisted if you are really too good.
Many blackjack books talk about "cover" or ways to stay undetected by casinos while you work your system. You may want to think about this too.
Now, even if you kill the $1 to $5 tables in a real casino, (and remember, these tend to have a HUGE house advantage with poor rules for blackjack) no one will take you seriously enough to buy your system until you start destroying the $100 (or higher) tables. These tend to have a lot of heat from casino staff and the eye in the sky to make sure that you are not cheating. With your wins and losses recorded in a computer, casinos will have a good idea if you are beating the house, and stop you from playing there. And casinos will talk to one another about blackjack counters.
Let's say that you are able to tackle all of the above challenges and still win. Well, if you are destroying the $100 table, I would strongly suggest to keep playing blackjack yourself instead of wasting time selling your system to someone else.
Blackjack can be a positive investment game. There are already many books on how to make money through card counting, and many books about maintaining your cover to hide from casinos' heat. I would believe that as technology improves, it will get harder and harder to beat casino blackjack, though I am no expert.
Best of luck to you. In general this forum is skeptical, but the members here will give you honest answers. Kind of like tough love.
Ofcourse. Just how profitable usually depends on how much you sell if for and how many suckers you rope in.Quote: gamblerI think the general consensus is that a blackjack system could be profitable.
This guy wants to hire a dealer and rent a hotel room... fine. That money right there is enough of a stake at the blackjack tables. Go for it.
Quote: odiousgambitYour plan could work on a 'mark'.
The whole trick is to work out the way to switch the piece of paper where the values for the chips are written without the mark noticing it.
Quote: weaselmanThe whole trick is to work out the way to switch the piece of paper where the values for the chips are written without the mark noticing it.
The old switch-eroo
Classic
Quote: weaselmanThe whole trick is to work out the way to switch the piece of paper where the values for the chips are written without the mark noticing it.
Yes, of course *slaps forehead*
very good
Yep. Maybe "ante" isn't the correct term. Perhaps "surcharge" or "seat-charge" is more appropriate.Quote: StevenBlackThanks DJTeddyBear. But what do you mean by "ante." I've never heard that term used with respect to blackjack, only poker. Do you mean the actual bet is $1.25: $1.00 bet plus $0.25 ante?
I know this is going on at Resorts in A.C. and has started to spread to other A.C. casinos.
It's a $1 table, but you must pay 25¢ per betting position in order to be dealt in. And they frown upon sitting out. That's 25¢ regardless if the hand wins, looses or pushes. One minor relief: I'm told that you do NOT have to pay again to split pairs.
Quote: DJTeddyBearYep. Maybe "ante" isn't the correct term. Perhaps "surcharge" or "seat-charge" is more appropriate.
The Indian casinos in San Diego used to have this surcharge. I think they abandoned it in favor of 6:5 blackjack.
Quote: waltomealI'd start here.
$30,000 should get you going. If that's not enough, I'm guessing that an endorsement from Bluejay would bring you all the buyers you'll need.
If you had a system that could win, you would essentially be selling it to Mr Bluejay for a paltry 30K. He's the one that has to understand it well enough to program it, he would know it as well as you by the time it was over. It doesn't surprise me there have been no takers.
Number 8 in the contest explanation says: "Since the first would-be challenger who wrote to me was concerned that I would use his winning system in the casinos myself to capitalize on it, I promise in writing to do no such thing."
Thats fine, but its also meaningless. I could change one small thing of somebody's system and get out of what I promised. I'm not at all saying Mr Bluejay would do this. What I am saying is I would have to assume I was selling my winning system for 30K. You can't patent a gambling system, so once somebody else has it, for all intents and purposes, its no longer under your control. Challenges like this don't prove winning systems don't exist, they just prove anybody who has one isn't going to part with it.
Quote: EvenBobWhat I am saying is I would have to assume I was selling my winning system for 30K. You can't patent a gambling system, so once somebody else has it, for all intents and purposes, its no longer under your control. Challenges like this don't prove winning systems don't exist, they just prove anybody who has one isn't going to part with it.
You don't need a challenge at all to prove winning systems don't exist (for -EV games). Simple math will do. The purpose of such challenges is to address those for whom simple math is either not understood or rejected outright. Selling a "gambling system" under the premise that it will guarantee the buyer a long-term advantage over the house borders on fraud.
Quote: MathExtremistSelling a "gambling system" under the premise that it will guarantee the buyer a long-term advantage over the house borders on fraud.
I wish it crossed the border.
Quote: MathExtremistThe purpose of such challenges is to address those for whom simple math is either not understood or rejected outright. Selling a "gambling system" under the premise that it will guarantee the buyer a long-term advantage over the house borders on fraud.
Someone who has a winning system would never sell it publicly, if at all. If such systems exist, you're likely to never hear or know about them. Simple math notwithstanding... (isn't notwithstanding a wonderful word? It goes back to the 14th century and means 'in spite of the fact'. In this case it means in spite of the fact of simple math.)
Quote: WizardI wish it crossed the border.
I'm sure it does constitute fraud, but its hard to prosecute. First you have to find the person who sold it to you and thats almost impossible if you bought it on the net. Then you have to sue them. The best thing is to never buy anything someone who won't demonstrate it in person. Jerry Singer pops to mind..
Quote: EvenbobI'm sure it does constitute fraud, but its hard to prosecute. First you have to find the person who sold it to you and thats almost impossible if you bought it on the net. Then you have to sue them. The best thing is to never buy anything someone who won't demonstrate it in person. Jerry Singer pops to mind..
Spike aka Evenbob also comes to mind.
Quote: EvenbobIf you had a system that could win, you would essentially be selling it to Mr Bluejay for a paltry 30K. He's the one that has to understand it well enough to program it, he would know it as well as you by the time it was over. It doesn't surprise me there have been no takers.
Well, good job on missing the point. As I say in the very first paragraph on my betting system challenge page:
Quote: Betting System ChallengeMy goal is to show that every huckster selling a "winning system" on the Internet for $29.95 (or whatever) is selling pure junk.
Hucksters sell their systems for $19.95, $49.95, or whatever. If they were willing to sell for a measly $25 or so, why wouldn't they sell it for a whopping $30,000?
Sure, anyone who had a winning system and WASN'T trying to sell it wouldn't go my challenge route, because they'd want to keep their winning system secret. But those who ARE selling their system, to any buyer, cheaply, on the mass market, should be all over my challenge. They're not.
If a single run is ahead with probabilty more than 38.5% then your offer is still is favourable (although not claiming to beat the house). Depending on the allowed spread this could be done.
I'm willing to sell it for whatever amount of money some fool is willing to pay for it.
The system is of course the famed "Own A Casino".
If I had any other system which would work, I'd simply sit down and start playing. I'd be up by more than 29.95 in no time and I'd have a lovely young lady bringing me drinks. Who on earth would turn down free booze, free food and the company of attractive, half-naked young ladies in order to sit at a desk and open envelopes containing money orders for 29.95 from their soon-to-be competitors who will surely alert the casinos, thus ending the system?
Lets face it: If you wouldn't give up free food, free booze, lovely ladies and unlimited earnings potential for 29.95, nobody else would either.
Quote: MichaelBluejay
But those who ARE selling their system, to any buyer, cheaply, on the mass market, should be all over my challenge. They're not.
With good reason. Its like a testing lab offering snake oil salesmen a challenge on their products. They would avoid it like the plague. System sellers and snake oil salesmen know their products are bogus, of course they avoid the light of day. If I'm misunderstanding your challenge, you're misunderstanding me. At the end of your challenge, you say nobody has accepted it. You don't specify no system seller has accepted it. A system seller will never accept it and somebody who has a winning system will ever accept it. You might as well triple the offer, the results will be the same.
Quote: EvenBobAt the end of your challenge, you say nobody has accepted it. You don't specify no system seller has accepted it.
Oh good lord!
First, if I *did* reference system sellers in my explanation. You keep cherry-picking parts of my page and ignoring both the full quotes as well as the context. What I *actually* said was:
Quote: Betting System ChallengeOne reader said that a system-seller claimed to have beaten my challenge (or perhaps the Wizard's challenge, he wasn't clear). Let me be clear: no one has ever even accepted my challenge, let alone beaten it.
There, the phrase "system seller" is right there plain as day.
It's also right there in the very first paragraph of the page, which tells the reader what the page is about. Of course I don't repeat the full and complete details in every single sentence on the page. That would just be ridiculous. I set the stage, so the reader knows what the topic under discussion is. If you choose to ignore it, that's not my fault.
He claimed to have a roulette system that could predict 70% on the outside ECs!
Quote: Keysertrying to sell his system for roulette as well!
Don't worry, if it was for sale (its not), you couldn't afford it. Sour grapes never goes away, I guess.
Quote: MichaelBluejay
First, if I *did* reference system sellers in my explanation.
If you had a winning system, would you, Michael Bluejay, give to somebody else for 30K, for any reason?
Quote: EvenBobIf you had a winning system, would you, Michael Bluejay, give to somebody else for 30K, for any reason?
That's the wrong question, and is thus a straw man argument. The proper questions is:
"If someone were SELLING a system for $29.95 (or whatever), would they take the challenge?"
If they knew the system didn't really work, then of course they wouldn't. Which is the whole point of my page: No system-seller has accepted the challenge, because they know they're selling junk. So by offering the challenge and getting no system-sellers taking me up on it, I've shown them to be frauds.
Quote: MichaelBluejaySo by offering the challenge and getting no system-sellers taking me up on it, I've shown them to be frauds.
And because coming up with a winning system is an impossibility, that makes the other part of it moot.
Quote: Evenbob/SpikeAnd because coming up with a winning system is an impossibility, that makes the other part of it moot.
Then why were you trying to sell your system to beat the ECs at roulette? Why were you claiming that you could predict the ECs with 70% accuracy?
Quote: KeyserSpike aka Evenbob also comes to mind.
I've never seen Evenbob referred to as Spike. What am I missing?
Quote: benbakdoffI've never seen Evenbob referred to as Spike. What am I missing?
You're missing the backstory of the adversarial relationship that Keyser AKA Snowman and Evenbob AKA Spike have on some random Roulette EBB. Basically, they each think that the other is full of it. For the most part, they do a good job of coexisting peacefully here...
Quote: rdw4potusYou're missing the backstory of the adversarial relationship that Keyser AKA Snowman and Evenbob AKA Spike have on some random Roulette EBB. Basically, they each think that the other is full of it. For the most part, they do a good job of coexisting peacefully here...
How did Snowman and Spike even figure out they were Keyser and Evenbob here? Actually I probably don't want to know, sounds like a lot of drama lol.
Quote: KeyserThen why were you trying to sell your system to beat the ECs at roulette? Why were you claiming that you could predict the ECs with 70% accuracy?
He wasn't, at least not here, and stop hijacking the thread. If you want to discuss EvenBob's posts on another forum where he allegedly sold some roulette EC system (whatever that means), aside from the fact that cyber-stalking is just creepy, do it in another thread.