EvenBob
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfHas Bob actully said or can someome figure out what he is claiming his edge over the house is?
Bob, I would appreciate it if could answer the question without telling me it's easy to figure out or whatever. It's a relatively simple question with a fairly simple answer.
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I am reluctant to talk about the edge because there's more than one way to arrive at it and whatever I post you're going to jump all over it and say, that's wrong! I know this because it's happened before. I make no apologies for not being a math person because knowing math has nothing to do with beating roulette. In fact it is a hindrance. You know what my edge is because you know what my hit rate is. You want me to commit to a number because you want to see me screw up and I'm not falling for that one again. You tell me what my edge is on a double zero wheel and I will probably agree with you but I really don't care. It has nothing to do with anything. I never think about it, why would I.
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Your posts indicate you have won a lot of money and all from on-line entities. It is my understanding from others who have had online experiences that they receive W2G's regardless of any offsets of losses. Therefore, are you a recipient of multiple W2G's and are you paying the appropriate amount of taxes? Do you have any offsets? Since we would respect your privacy, how about showing us some of the W2G's and redacting identifying personal information?
tuttigym
Quote: SOOPOOHitting 400 out of 500 on even chance type bets is less likely than 25 yo’s in a row!!!!
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Using what strategy to pick the bets is it unlikely. You can't just make a universal statement like that without telling us what the betting strategy is. So what is it, surely you must know. Is it FTL or OTL? Is it just betting randomly? Please tell us.
What is the average number of bets that it takes you to win one unit?
What is the maximum number of bets that it's taken you to win one unit?
Can you see the patterns in all online casinos or just some of them?
Thank you in advance, and it's nice to meet you.
Quote: tuttigymTherefore, are you a recipient of multiple W2G's and are you paying the appropriate amount of taxes?
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You want me to discuss the details of my dealings with the IRS on a public forum? What do you think my CPA or my attorney would say about that. Take a wild guess.
Quote: UsernameRemorseBy way of introduction, I'm a former advantage player, but I will not reject you out of turn. If I may, I'd like to ask you a few questions:
What is the average number of bets that it takes you to win one unit?
What is the maximum number of bets that it's taken you to win one unit?
Can you see the patterns in all online casinos or just some of them?
Thank you in advance, and it's nice to meet you.
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The average number of bets it takes to win one unit is one bet. If I lose I almost always win it on the 3rd bet. If that turns out to be a zero or I'm wrong again by the fifth bet I'm almost always one unit ahead. The maximum number of bets in an online casino so far has been 7 but that's because I got three zeros which is really unusual.
I can see the patterns in all roulette outcomes from a real wheel no matter where they come from
I wasn't looking to make any claims about the math. I really just want to know what you think your edge over the house is. If you are/were reluctant to answer this why did you take me to task and claim you already answered it in a previous post?Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfHas Bob actully said or can someome figure out what he is claiming his edge over the house is?
Bob, I would appreciate it if could answer the question without telling me it's easy to figure out or whatever. It's a relatively simple question with a fairly simple answer.
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I am reluctant to talk about the edge because there's more than one way to arrive at it and whatever I post you're going to jump all over it and say, that's wrong! I know this because it's happened before. I make no apologies for not being a math person because knowing math has nothing to do with beating roulette. In fact it is a hindrance. You know what my edge is because you know what my hit rate is. You want me to commit to a number because you want to see me screw up and I'm not falling for that one again. You tell me what my edge is on a double zero wheel and I will probably agree with you but I really don't care. It has nothing to do with anything. I never think about it, why would I. Have driven cars all my life and I have no idea what the math is behind the design of an engine and transmission. None. I don't know how they arrived at horsepower, I know very little of the mechanics behind how an automatic transmission works or what the math is in building one. But I don't need to know any of that to be a great driver just like I don't need to know any math in roulette to beat It.
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I don't claim someone has to be a math expert to beat casinos. One should know at a minimum what kind of edge they have(it doesn't have to be exact).
Quote: EvenBobQuote: tuttigymTherefore, are you a recipient of multiple W2G's and are you paying the appropriate amount of taxes?
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You want me to discuss the details of my dealings with the IRS on a public forum? What do you think my CPA or my attorney would say about that. Take a wild guess.
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My post did not ask for your "dealings" or "details" with the IRS. The immediate question was have you received W2G's for all these winnings you have proclaimed, and secondarily, to produce under redaction some W2G's. You have already informed us of your incredible winning streaks on this public forum which your attorney and/or accountant would frown upon. If you are dealing honestly with the IRS about your gambling, producing redacted documentation should not be a problem. Although, I do understand your basic reluctance.
tuttigym
He is simply streak betting!!! For one unit profit at a time.
Yeesh. I tried it myself before I became a successful AP. I even have revisited it on occasion. I understand what he means by patterns etc
RRRRRR
OR
BBBBBB
OR RRB-RRB-RRB
OR RBRBRBRBRBRB
So he sees four reds in a row he bets red. If it lands red he won
If doesn't he waits until he see another four (or maybe three) reds or black or whatever pattern he thinks he has identified and makes two successive bets to make his one unit profit.
Lots of people have done it before. He thinks he has discovered something new.
Since he can monitor multiple online Casinos at once in his home he naturally sees a lot more streaks
Whoop de doo that's a revelation.
He uses absolutely no inside, no mathematical and no real edge besides hoping and dreaming he identifies a streak and it continues for at least one additional spin when he wagers.
That's his whole method.
Bottom line:. He has no edge except hope and prayers and luck and as you see below, when he is informed of this it doesn't make him feel good so now he just won't talk about it
Quote: AxelWolf
I don't claim someone has to be a math expert to beat casinos. One should know at a minimum what kind of edge they have(it doesn't have to be exact).
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I think I do know what my edge is but I'm reluctant to say it because the last time I did it I was told it was wrong and in a big argument ensued among a couple of people as to how to figure out the edge. So I don't get involved in that. I think I know what it is and that's good enough for me.
Quote: tuttigymThe immediate question was have you received W2G's for all these winnings you have proclaimed, and secondarily, to produce under redaction some W2G's.
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Would that not be my business and nobody else's? Just like yours is your business and I would never ask you. There are some things you just don't talk about because it's not anybody's business but yours.
I left the casino and returned about eight hours later. I played the same game for a few hours and won $600. Every eight hours, I returned to the casino to play that game and tried not to get too greedy by limiting my wins to about $600 per "shift".
After a few days, I returned to the casino to punch in for my shift on the machine but I saw that it was gone! Gone, but not forgotten. I was never able to find more of those machines. That was my only experience with pattern recognition.
EvenBob, do you feel that your roulette success is attributable solely to pattern recognition or is it also due to luck? If so, have you always been a lucky person?
Once again, more evidence so many on this forum don't really gamble in casinos... they just read about casino math.
I hear Don't odds bets win near 60% of the time and playing at 6X odds could put you ahead.
If I was playing 2X 1 Dozen bets and 1 Double street bet, I'd be winning 80% of the time. But again, those green numbers add up.
That may have been due to a glitch or design flaw. Bob's claims are totally unrelated to that kind of stuff.Quote: UsernameRemorseThank you for replying. Several years ago, I was playing blackjack on an Aristocrat multigame in conjunction with a promotion. In the course of playing the game, which I had never played before, I noticed what I thought were very distinct recurring patterns in the card distribution. I started acting on those seeming patterns, pressing my bet for favorable patterns and pinching it for unfavorable ones. In a matter of a few hours I had won $800!
I left the casino and returned about eight hours later. I played the same game for a few hours and won $600. Every eight hours, I returned to the casino to play that game and tried not to get too greedy by limiting my wins to about $600 per "shift".
After a few days, I returned to the casino to punch in for my shift on the machine but I saw that it was gone! Gone, but not forgotten. I was never able to find more of those machines. That was my only experience with pattern recognition.
EvenBob, do you feel that your roulette success is attributable solely to pattern recognition or is it also due to luck? If so, have you always been a lucky person?
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Quote: ChumpChangeOnline bets that pay $1200+ including the bet returned are taxable. B&M casino roulette tables have no such requirement. B&M casino roulette machines have a $1200+ including the bet returned tax liability, but most of the time the maximum bets are low enough so that is never reached. Cashing out $1200+ on a machine is not a problem.
I hear Don't odds bets win near 60% of the time and playing at 6X odds could put you ahead.
If I was playing 2X 1 Dozen bets and 1 Double street bet, I'd be winning 80% of the time. But again, those green numbers add up.
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There is no differentiation between an online roulette game and a brick and mortar roulette game for purposes of W-2G reporting requirements. If I am wrong about this, then there is something going on of which I am unaware, or the roulette machine is not considered a table game and is considered some kind of slot machine.
Remember too that EvenBob plays only actual roulette wheels being spun by a human hand, on camera. Online or not, that is a table game, and there is no W-2G requirement unless the payoff is somehow 300:1 and pays out over $600.
Quote: MDawgQuote: ChumpChangeOnline bets that pay $1200+ including the bet returned are taxable. B&M casino roulette tables have no such requirement. B&M casino roulette machines have a $1200+ including the bet returned tax liability, but most of the time the maximum bets are low enough so that is never reached. Cashing out $1200+ on a machine is not a problem.
I hear Don't odds bets win near 60% of the time and playing at 6X odds could put you ahead.
If I was playing 2X 1 Dozen bets and 1 Double street bet, I'd be winning 80% of the time. But again, those green numbers add up.
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There is no differentiation between an online roulette game and a brick and mortar roulette game for purposes of W-2G reporting requirements. If I am wrong about this, then there is something going on of which I am unaware, or the roulette machine is not considered a table game and is considered some kind of slot machine.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/jobs-and-career/how-to-pay-taxes-on-gambling-winnings-and-losses/amp/L7JNH7mjn
Of course Wiggins has $17 million in bets on his W/L statement and he may have more insight into the subject.
Put it this way - who on here has played blackjack or roulette or baccarat online and received a W-2G ? Again, if W-2Gs are being handed out for online table games, then something is going on of which I am not aware.
Quote: UsernameRemorse
EvenBob, do you feel that your roulette success is attributable solely to pattern recognition or is it also due to luck? ?
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I have never believed in luck, it's just another word we use to describe things we don't understand.
Quote: MDawgThere might be some variations of table games that end up somehow creating slot machine like payoffs, but a table game in a brick and mortar casino is a table game and no W-2G will be issued for it.
Put it this way - who on here has played blackjack or roulette or baccarat online and received a W-2G ? Again, if W-2Gs are being handed out for online table games, then something is going on of which I am not aware.
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I don't know about online but with electronic Roulette in B&M Casinos, any win over $1200 is treated like a slot machine.
It doesn't matter if the dealer is spinning the wheel such as in stadium Roulette.
A decision was made for whatever reason that since a wager is electronically recorded (wager made, outcome, payment) that it needed to be treated as a slot machine.
If you don't believe that just try making a wager on E-games that will trigger a $1200 payout
Then wait for the attendant to come and unlock your jackpot.
Quote: ChumpChangeA $500 BJ bet that wins 3:2 pays $1250 back. Online, it's a slot machine. Open an account and try it. But you might not see the tax forms until they arrive at the beginning of the next year.
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Getting a tax form at the beginning of the next year will cause quite a problem for those required to file quarterly tax statements and make quarterly payments.
I smell penalties.
On the subject of 1099s and W2Gs... are you saying if a player makes a $50 bet on 12 in craps and it hits he gets a 1099 on an Etable? What a mess.
At Red Rock today one player had $100 on aces and it hit. Another player had $50 on midnight and it hit. He pressed to $100 and it hit again.
Table max is $200.
But this was not an Etable so no 1099.
Quote: MDawgThe fact that Tuttigym is talking about W-2Gs being handed out at roulette and that EvenBob is responding other than to state that no one is getting W-2Gs at the roulette table is not good.
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State-run online casinos which is where I play will send you paperwork if you win over $1,200 on a slot machine or $600 at a table game.
"At a state-licensed online casino (ie. in a state with legal online gambling sites like Nevada, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan or Indiana) the casino will report any video poker or slot machine win over $1,200, which you should receive form W2-G for reporting. Casinos don’t report winnings on table games unless you win $600 or more".
Quote: MDawgPut it this way - who on here has played blackjack or roulette or baccarat online and received a W-2G ?
Me. BetMGM and Borgata in PA sent me a ton of w2g's for online electronic blackjack (not live dealer). Other websites (edit- ALSO IN PA) did not, so somebody is doing it wrong. Probably MGM
But if you read the instructions themselves
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/iw2g--2021.pdf
it goes down the line about when a W-2G must be issued and I don't see any necessity for issuing one for an online table game (or for a brick and mortar electronic table game) unless the payoff is 300:1 and over $600.
In fact, if you search the entirety of the text of the instructions for the W-2G the word "online" appears nowhere...so it's not like the rules are any different for online versus brick and mortar, as far as I can see. (Nor does the word "electronic" appear but once in the instructions, and nothing to do with electronic casino games.)
I do know that in a brick and mortar casino, at the tables, part of the reason a W-2G is not feasible is that the pit boss cannot attest under penalty of perjury as to exact amount of win. It would just put the pit boss in too exacting a role to have to attest as to the exact sum with which every single table game player walked away. But, at electronic versions of table games, the machine could attest accurately to exact wins. But as to why an electronic or online table game recipient might get a W-2G where a brick and mortar table game player winning the exact same amounts might not get any W-2G, I can't find any reason based on the W-2G/Form 5754 rules themselves.
All I can think of is that, for example, with reference to the 1099-K that is issued at the end of the year to credit card processors: Up until this year (now the requirements are much lower - $600. or over triggers a 1099-K), and since 2012, the requirement up until 2022, was - issue a 1099-K if process over $20,000 in dollar amount represented by 200 or more transactions.
So, from 2012 - 2021, if you did not process over $20K / 200 transactions, you were not supposed to receive a 1099-K. However, some processors issued a 1099-K for all merchants, even if the threshold was not triggered.
So, maybe some of these online casinos just decided to issue a W-2G in some circumstances even though it's not mandated by law, is all I can think of. Unless there is some provision of the rules behind Form 5754 (W-2G) of which I am unaware.
Being unaware is what happens when one assumes one knows it all and doesn't even play electronic table games.
So, unless you may find some reason for its happening, it's just hit or miss as to whether anyone may expect to get a W-2G for any online or electronic table game. And it's definitely miss as far as getting one for any brick and mortar table game - won't happen short of that Fire Bet which really should be just discounted since it is so rare.
There is a possibility that the W-2G may have something to do with backup withholding, because there are instructions for the W-2G/Form 5754 that center around situations where this is triggered. But until someone points to where the W-2G/Form 5754 instructions or some other applicable law direct online table games to be treated differently from brick and mortar table games, we can't know why exactly this is happening or if it is happening universally at online casinos.
By the way DarkOz, Photoshop is not needed for screenshots.
Quote: MDawgIt is anecdotal, because it's just something that is reported to have happened to some people, but by law, according to the Form 5754 instructions, need not have happened.
So, unless you may find some reason for its happening, it's just hit or miss as to whether anyone may expect to get a W-2G for any online or electronic table game. And it's definitely miss as far as getting one for any brick and mortar table game - won't happen short of that Fire Bet which really should be just discounted since it is so rare.
By the way DarkOz, Photoshop is not needed for screenshots.
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This isn't a scientific experiment needing a preponderance of anecdotal evidence.
A number of posters are telling you from experience how it's done.
I don't care if you can't find the law. Or even if Casinos don't understand the law.
That's how it's done.
What is really ridiculous is that you could strive to prove everyone wrong by going to the casino of your choice and taking a video of your experience winning more than ,$1200 on an electronic table game.
But you won't do that because then you would have to admit you were wrong when they handed you a W2-G
Quote: ChumpChangeKeep making large even money bets while you are in the 50% tax bracket and having all your winnings taken by the tax man is not gambling, it's donating money to Uncle Sam.
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The wager amount is on the W2-G
You would get a sizable refund come tax time.
Call it a sizable loan more than a donation.
Just for example, BetMGM states that "Ezugi and Evolution" (whatever those are) live dealer game wins are exempt from the 'over $1200 W-2G trigger' (absent of course that 300:1 over $600. trigger, which overrides all).
Still can't figure out why they would issue a W-2G at all for any online table game, no one has found the applicable law....
Quote: MDawgNot only is it wrong to think that Photoshop is needed to take a screenshot 😅, but it is also wrong to think that every online casino will issue a W-2G for live dealer action table games. Which is why you can't go by that anecdotal data.
Just for example, BetMGM states that "Ezugi and Evolution" (whatever those are) live dealer game wins are exempt from the 'over $1200 W-2G trigger' (absent of course that 300:1 over $600. trigger, which overrides all).
Still can't figure out why they would issue a W-2G at all for any online table game, no one has found the applicable law....
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I have no idea what you are referring to with Photoshop.
I push two buttons simultaneously on my phone and bingo, snapshot
That you don't know how to use a cellphone is strange.
I'm also NOT referring to online gaming. I am referring to B&M electronic games. How that wasn't clear either when I mentioned you should go physically and do it.
But of course it's not about what is right or wrong just that you need to keep repeating the same thing over and over, without putting much thought or energy into figuring out why it is happening.
Quote: MDawgThat you thought that EvenBob would be unable to post a screenshot due to lack of PhotoShop experience is what is strange.
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I base that on his statements that he is in his eighties.
My experience is anyone born during the time of radio only as home entertainment won't be able to work Photoshop.
I personally don't use it so I am not saying that's a bad thing. But EB won't be able to I am certain.
Quote: MDawgIn any case, my point is that there may be casinos who have e-table games that do not issue W-2Gs. Until we know why they are doing it, the evidence is just anecdotal and there may be no universal rule that a W-2G is issued in all such cases at all such casinos.
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Okay I will agree with you as far as that is concerned.
I'm obviously not walking into Casinos in every state testing it
The Casinos just hire programming experts who have worked with slots for decades to install these systems. When asked how to handle the tax issue they probably just said, "it looks like a slot (has card readers for rewards, electronic digital screen, every transaction is logged etc), so let's just program it the way we know.
I can see yet other executive's saying let's not get in trouble with tax issues. We will deduct and report and let the players deal with it
Quote: MDawgSure, but you mentioned his possible lack of PS experience as some kind of reason for why he would not be able to post a screenshot. PS is pretty advanced, but luckily is not needed to take a screenshot.
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Lol, I was insinuating that he needs more than the ability to take a screenshot because he needs Photoshop to change the info (because I don't believe he has any real proof of winning).
Quote: EvenBobThe average number of bets it takes to win one unit is one bet. If I lose I almost always win it on the 3rd bet. If that turns out to be a zero or I'm wrong again by the fifth bet I'm almost always one unit ahead. The maximum number of bets in an online casino so far has been 7 but that's because I got three zeros which is really unusual.
Quote: darkozPersonally I suspect it's less based on the law and more on programming and tradition.
The Casinos just hire programming experts who have worked with slots for decades to install these systems. When asked how to handle the tax issue they probably just said, "it looks like a slot (has card readers for rewards, electronic digital screen, every transaction is logged etc), so let's just program it the way we know.
I can see yet other executive's saying let's not get in trouble with tax issues. We will deduct and report and let the players deal with it
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That may well be. Just as the example I mentioned of some credit card processors issuing 1099-Ks even though not mandated.
For the $600 limit, it'd be $15 straight-up and $30 split bets and no more than $599 pay on any one number.
A $1400 win on a $500 pull isn't a $1200 profit.
I just deal with it. I get a nice refund at the end of the year.
If you are playing electronic table games you deal with it.
So why are there 1099s or W2Gs?
If you asked the IRS they'd probably say it's a meaningless question since all wins including non 1099 and non W2G must be reported.
But it must be a headache to go thru your W2Gs and 1099s entering casino codes on your tax return.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf I recall the Nevada Gaming Commission considers electronic games such as roulette and craps to be TABLE games.
So why are there 1099s or W2Gs?
If you asked the IRS they'd probably say it's a meaningless question since all wins including non 1099 and non W2G must be reported.
But it must be a headache to go thru your W2Gs and 1099s entering casino codes on your tax return.
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That's why I hire an accountant.
