The Adventures of MDawg II

Quote: tuttigym

One other curious item for me, after receiving $100,s of k's by way of checks from the casinos did they issue W2G's? If not, why not?

W2G's are only given for a singular wager exceeding the threshold, not the cumulation of bets.

The only W-2G I've received in the past five years was for winning a drawing where the prize was straight cash. Even at tournaments since the prize seems to be always promo chips, no paperwork is issued.

The two table games I play I will never receive a W2-G for them it's just not done no matter how much I have won or will win.

And I have been pretty lucky, out of the two drawings I entered, I won something at both, and so far I have won four tournaments out of the many I have entered over the past five years. What would be nice would be to win one of those million dollar "winner takes all" tournaments - I have been in two of those tournament so far.

Quote: MDawg

The only W-2G I've received in the past five years was for winning a drawing where the prize was straight cash. Even at tournaments since the prize seems to be always promo chips, no paperwork is issued.

That is unusual. Usually those drawing will issue 1099's.

You got me to thinking, but I looked at the actual slip and it is in fact a W-2G.

Quote: MDawg

You got me to thinking, but I looked at the actual slip and it is in fact a W-2G.


link to original post

DRich & Mdawg lots of inconsistencies here. tuttigym strikes again.

BTW, Mdawg, when you deposit those big checks, the IRS is notified of the transactions. So, is there an IRS process for contact to have you define those transactions for possible tax purposes?

How about the questions on the "challenge"?

tuttigym

There are no inconsistencies.

I got a W-2G for winning a drawing where the prizes were all cash.

I have never been issued and will never be issued any paperwork whatsoever for my Blackjack or Baccarat table game wins, no matter how many millions.

You are also in the Outer Limits if you think the IRS is automatically notified of deposited checks no matter how large. I get back to a question I asked you long ago, In what country do you live because your ideas have little to do with the United States? Don't answer that question - because you might be living geographically in the U.S. but your ideas are foreign to what's really going on in this country.


Bottom line is that we are all responsible for paying taxes on income, and your quaint ideas about when or if the IRS is notified have nothing to do with that responsibility.

Elsewhere there was some talk about whether a player or casino would ever enter into a non disclosure agreement (NDA) to try to keep the amount of a win or loss out of the news. Yes!

In 2000, Kerry Packer dumped about $20M at the Bellagio at Baccarat.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95974&page=1
He was back at Bellagio the next year at a time when I was physically present and watched him play (at that time there were no private salons, the public could access any portion of the casino). For that 2001 trip, Packer had the dealers, the pit bosses, even the cage personnel all sign NDAs that they would not disclose how much he won lost or played, obviously because he didn't want the big headlines about his loss that had been sprayed all over the world in 2000. A high level casino V.P. told me about these 2001 NDAs, because the NDAs themselves were not confidential - but notwithstanding the NDAs, the very next day it was all over Vegas about how much Packer had lost again in 2001 - millions. You don't see as many news articles about the 2001 loss as the 2000 loss, but it happened, and they could not keep the news from getting out.

So, NDAs don't always get the job done because when something like that is so publicly done the word usually has a way of getting out and no one may really control it entirely, but - to say that casinos or high rollers don't engage in confidentiality agreements is to not understand how the casino industry sometimes works.

You may read a little bit about this here, I just found this article

https://www.maynereport.com/articles/2008/07/14-1120-1631.html

but it doesn't say anything I didn't already know first hand.


7. How big a punter was KP?

By Stephen Mayne

Now that Kerry Packer has moved on, a few more famous casino stories are seeping into the public arena. The Las Vegas Review Journal published a front page obituary the day after his death and this piece from the paper's Norm Clark provides some very interesting insights:
When it came to electricity and James Bond-esque buzz, no one quite lit up Las Vegas like Australian whale Kerry Packer. According to published reports, only the Sultan of Brunei and Adnan Khashoggi, the Saudi arms dealer, were regarded as being in the same league.

After I reported he had lost $US20 million on a subsequent visit (to Bellagio), he came to town with a giant chip on his shoulder. Upset that his media rivals put his stunning losses in big headlines, Packer was out to get even when he came to Las Vegas in early September of 2001 – get even with the dealers, whom he suspected had leaked the information to me.

As retribution, he demanded that hotel reps dealing with him sign a non-disclosure agreement to keep his table action in confidence.

"As a further show of his wrath, he refused to tip the dealers in his two weeks of play," a Bellagio employee told me. Dealers are angry, he said, because Packer "punished dealers for a leak which could have come from a number of departments."

He wasn't any happier by the time he left. Because of the Sept. 11 terrorist acts, the Federal Aviation Administration grounded flights, forcing Packer to stay an extra week. Several sources told me he lost $US29 million, and I printed it. Bellagio boss Bobby Baldwin, who got an earful from Packer over the item, summoned me to his office and disagreed with that number.

There are even more amazing details and some direct quotes from Bobby Baldwin in Clark's column the next day.

Mark Latham should have a quiet smirk on reading this item because these are the leaks that triggered his parliamentary sprays against Packer's excessive gambling in 2000 on 31 August and 7 September. Packer clearly didn't enjoy the publicity at all.

Quote: tuttigym

BTW, Mdawg, when you deposit those big checks, the IRS is notified of the transactions.

What would make you think that?

Driving around you see something like this and it makes you think - I'm putting more than that on a single hand.


Makes for pause.

And winning almost all the time


$7,000 might be pocket change to you, MDawg, but it’s a lot of money to the working-class peons out there. Most people in the world make less than $7k a year

Quote: Ace2

And winning almost all the time


$7,000 might be pocket change to you, MDawg, but it’s a lot of money to the working-class peons out there. Most people in the world make less than $7k a year
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When gambling I’m always aware of the people helping you. Dealers, pit bosses, cashiers, etc…. MDawg’s $7k bet taking less than a minute to resolve is surely more than most people he interacts with clear after taxes in a single month. Let that sink in. You are betting 70 black chips on one hand, and if paid in chips, the guy gets 2-3 for an 8 hour shift.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Ace2

And winning almost all the time


$7,000 might be pocket change to you, MDawg, but it’s a lot of money to the working-class peons out there. Most people in the world make less than $7k a year
link to original post

When gambling I’m always aware of the people helping you. Dealers, pit bosses, cashiers, etc…. MDawg’s $7k bet taking less than a minute to resolve is surely more than most people he interacts with clear after taxes in a single month. Let that sink in. You are betting 70 black chips on one hand, and if paid in chips, the guy gets 2-3 for an 8 hour shift.
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Should have stayed in school or asked Daddy for a small loan to start a business.

I'm certain that the level of emotional involvement the dealers display while dealing the larger hands, mirrors the attachment of the player to the hand's outcome. I doubt a dealer who isn't getting tipped and is dealing to some uber whale who is flat betting $300K cares that much about what happens on a given hand. I mean if every hand is $300K (which, there really are players who flat bet like that to the limit), and the player is not even flinching, then how could or would the dealer care about each hand's outcome.

On the other hand, with someone like me who sometimes bets as little as a few hundred dollars and then other times suddenly ups the bet many many times that, I know the dealers get involved and really want to deal a winner especially for the larger hands. I've had dealers make comments like "you're putting a lot of pressure on me" and "my heart was really racing" and "take it easy you're going to give me a heart attack" during periods when I am really tossing down the large denomination chips.

One time I put 20K on Player, doubled it to 40K, and left it there (not more than that though), as a long Player run kept coming down and I was winning hand after hand and yelling and making a lot of celebratory (but also tense) noise. I didn't notice at all, but a young girl (family friend) who was seated at the table with me and watching everything later told me that the dealer's hands were literally shaking as she was dealing out the cards. I had a similar thing happen with 15K , 30K, 45K , hands on down the line for a winning run.

It's not always that way though, I've had dealers also make off handed comments like "Oh, so now you're betting twenty thousand?" when I have suddenly increased the bet at moments where they could not understand why I was doing what I was doing (I knew, but how could they?), and just taken it in stride.

Over all, it's when players are tossing down all their money and losing hand after hand, whatever the amount of chips being played, that dealers feel the worst because while everyone accepts that losing does happen in casinos, losing every chip in front of you is something that no dealer likes to see happen, and yet, it does happen more often than many players would like. If you stay in a high limit salon long enough, every now and then someone will get up and leave after losing all of his or her chips, and that is not a pretty sight to see, the look on the player's face, or on the dealer's or pit boss'. Of course, it doesn't always mean that that player has gone entirely bust, but it does mean that whatever chips were in front of the player at that moment, have been all lost.

Basically, at table games, if you play long enough there will invariably come a period when you are winning every hand, and also a period when you are losing every hand. Too often I see people laughing happily and betting small as they rake the chips in, and then a while later tossing down huge bets as the atmosphere is so grim you could cut it with a knife, and they can't even win one hand out of five. You don't even have to look at the cards to take in the difference between those two quite different scenes.

I watched this big player betting against a very long Bank run and while it was obvious that the player could afford it, as kept losing hand after hand on Player, increasing the bet something like a Martingale and all the way to what looked like $150K per hand and still losing every hand, it was obvious that the player was in a bad way and not happy at all, exasperated and grimacing with each losing hand, and the dealers in the area and the pit boss were all very solemn and grim as it was all happening.

When you see someone dump a couple million in one session you figure must have 100X that in the Bank and doesn't care so very much, but you never know - I know of Players who put together a million and it represented pretty much all they had, and went to Vegas to try their luck all in one trip. Not smart, and not fun to watch if they are losing.

How the $100 Million ‘NYPD Blue’ Creator Gambled Away His Fortune

“The Phantom Gambler of the Horseshoe, Who Bet $1 Million on Nov. 16, 1984.”

There has been some talk about free play / promo chips.

Someone was complaining about how had put in more coin into the slots this year but got the same amount of free play as last year. One theory lent was that only losing players get free play. I assume that whoever offered that theory plays a lot of machines and not much else.

I don't play slots so maybe someone else could comment on that, but promo chips are handed out based on either actual loss or theoretical loss, same as all other comps. In fact, in situations where I have lost nothing whatsoever for some time I've received promo chips, it just depends on what sort of promotions are going on at that time. Play enough and you'll get promotions, win lose or draw.

Quote: MDawg

There has been some talk about free play / promo chips.

Someone was complaining about how had put in more coin into the slots this year but got the same amount of free play as last year. One theory lent was that only losing players get free play. I assume that whoever offered that theory plays a lot of machines and not much else.

I don't play slots so maybe someone else could comment on that, but promo chips are handed out based on either actual loss or theoretical loss, same as all other comps. In fact, in situations where I have lost nothing whatsoever for some time I've received promo chips, it just depends on what sort of promotions are going on at that time. Play enough and you'll get promotions, win lose or draw.
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I can tell you for a fact that most casinos base slot free play off of coin-in, some do it off theo win. Many will also offer free play for people that lost a lot more than their theo.

I have worked with slot departments of close to a 100 casinos and over a 1000 slot parlors

I just read that the median household income in USA is $71,000.

Then I realized: Dang, I lost more than that in the stock market today. And this was a slow trading day since it’s almost Christmas

Sort of like MDawg seeing the car for sale for less than a single bacarrat bet. Struggling to identify with an average American. $6,900 to me is halfway to a new pair of gators or 1/10th of the way to a new watch

It's a paper loss though. I thought you sold most everything a while back, you still have enough left to have lost that much today? Not saying my long terms didn't go down a grip lately too, but I figured with all your gloomy prognostications and having gotten triggered out of SPY at 381 (which, it's pretty much at that today anyway...not so bad) that you didn't have much left in the market.

Quote: DRich

Quote: MDawg

There has been some talk about free play / promo chips.

Someone was complaining about how had put in more coin into the slots this year but got the same amount of free play as last year. One theory lent was that only losing players get free play. I assume that whoever offered that theory plays a lot of machines and not much else.

I don't play slots so maybe someone else could comment on that, but promo chips are handed out based on either actual loss or theoretical loss, same as all other comps. In fact, in situations where I have lost nothing whatsoever for some time I've received promo chips, it just depends on what sort of promotions are going on at that time. Play enough and you'll get promotions, win lose or draw.
link to original post

I can tell you for a fact that most casinos base slot free play off of coin-in, some do it off theo win. Many will also offer free play for people that lost a lot more than their theo.

I have worked with slot departments of close to a 100 casinos and over a 1000 slot parlors
link to original post

Yes that makes a lot more sense than the theory of only losing players get free play. That just confirms that whoever had that theory wasn't even knowledgeable about slots, let alone anything to do with Vegas. Probably read about it somewhere and presented the erroneous theory as own.

The fact of the matter is that unless Vegas has figured out why a person is winning, and furthermore has determined that this winning falls into the realms of understood advantage play, the gravy train might just keep rolling onwards and upwards.

In my case I've found that win lose or draw, the promo chips keep coming in, although - like any other comps, they will deduct from my over all available comps and be offset by other concessions such as loss rebate.

Quote: MDawg

It's a paper loss though. I thought you sold most everything a while back, you still have enough left to have lost that much today? Not saying my long terms didn't go down a grip lately too, but I figured with all your gloomy prognostications and having gotten triggered out of SPY at 381 (which, it's pretty much at that today anyway...not so bad) that you didn't have much left in the market.
link to original post

I tend to get in trouble when I use the term “reading comprehension” but I can’t think of another accurate term

I sold “a lot” but I did not sell “most” of my portfolio. The vast majority of my sales were back in January at 432. It was only my final trailing stop limit that executed at 381.

Maybe you got me confused with someone else

When it comes to stocks, I’m an investor not a gambler

Why would anyone keep crying doom and gloom and then do nothing about it. What a waste of tears!

On the other hand, I've walked like I talked. I have held on, and if anything, added to a position here and there.

Came across this lawsuit Benson v. Double Down Interactive, LLC (2:18-cv-00525)
District Court, W.D. Washington, because someone posted about how her Google gmail account had recently been subpoenaed for traces of interaction with the defendant, an online app that operated out of Washington state.

Basically this outfit operated as a free online casino where players were given some free chips when they joined, but were given the option to buy chips at any time, including of course if they went bust. As such, plaintiffs are claiming that this constituted an illegal casino operation under Washington law, since players effectively needed to buy chips to keep playing.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6359195/benson-v-double-down-interactive-llc/

The defendants tried to claim that the class members should be limited to Washington state residents only
https://casetext.com/case/benson-v-double-down-interactive-llc-5
but that failed, as the court held that WA law could be applied to the claims of all class members, regardless of where they lived in the United States.


The lawsuit started in 2018, and was settled in August / September 2022,
https://www.doubledownsettlement.com/admin/api/connectedapps.cms.extensions/asset?id=76ccb313-b9c5-4c4c-b9ee-d08031187b48&languageId=1033&inline=true
and now the plaintiffs are probably looking for more evidence that the plaintiffs actively sought out buyers of their for-purchase chips, or some other evidence to bolster perhaps the amount of money that defendants need to cough up to settle claims, which may be why they are subpoenaing gmail accounts of people who used the app. It is possible that they are also looking for more class members, but generally for this type of lawsuit they just advertise the class action to anyone who had any interaction with the defendant, and already know of most or all potential class members not so long after the action is commenced.

Another possibility is that one side is trying to get some kind of verification about class members or their interactions with the defendants.

It appears that the motion that compelled this subpoena was stipulated (meaning that both sides agreed to it), so that somewhat anyway dispels the notion that it was done by plaintiffs solely to drum up more attorney fees, which, as the prevailing party by terms of the settlement the plaintiffs' attorneys will be getting a LOT of attorney fees.

These are the type of lawsuits that lawyers like me love to litigate, although they typically take a long time and don't always end up with a big payday, or any payday at all. In your lifetime as an attorney if you get one or two of these large class action cases, and win, you will be set up pretty nicely.

Aspects of the case, including that the defendants claimed that the matter should have gone to arbitration, not court, have already been appealed to the Ninth Circuit and back:
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/18-36015/18-36015-2020-01-29.html
which just goes to show that a lot is at stake and the defendants tried hard to get out of any liability.

There is big money involved, as the defendants have been ordered to deposit a total of $100M into the settlement fund. That doesn't mean that the typical class member will get much, but the lead plaintiff(s) will probably get a nice chunk and of course...the plaintiffs' attorneys.

If you think you might be a class member, defined as someone who "Played DoubleDown Casino, DoubleDown Fort Knox, DoubleDown Classic, and/or Ellen’s Road to Riches While in the United States on or before November 14, 2022," go here before March 23, 2023, to file your claim:
https://www.doubledownsettlement.com


This type of lawsuit makes me think about all of the other "free" online gaming apps out there that have an option to buy chips if you go bust. How are the others still in business while this one was sued on a U.S. nationwide basis? I'd have to examine this lawsuit more minutely to get the answer, but it could be as simple as stay out of the U.S. and create your "free" online gaming app in some country that has no laws against it. Double Down Interactive, LLC fell afoul of Washington laws and is definitely ruing the decision to have put themselves under the arm of Washington state law.

I have seen some of the companies offer additional free chips at intervals so a player would not need to buy more chips, just wait for the next free allotment. Obviously, most gamblers do not want to wait so they would take the option to buy chips and continue playing immediately.

I've played on some of those "free" poker apps over the years. Most of them I never bothered to buy any chips, but on one of them for a period of time I was buying chips - not from the app company itself - but from some of the other players. The going rate for chips from other players was always a fraction of what the company itself was charging. Then eventually I started winning on that app and started selling chips myself. Most of the apps I think don't have a mechanism for selling chips player to player but that one you could go to an empty room and basically unload chips to the other player one on one by deliberately raising and then folding. That app tried to devise algorithms to detect and stop the transfers, such as if too much was being transferred per hand, but people always seemed to find ways to get the job done.

So as much as these apps purport to be "free," just as you mentioned: players who want to have a lot of chips or who want to keep playing when gone bust will be willing to pay for the play. Obviously - I mean that Washington app that is now being sued is ponying up $100M to settle its lawsuit = that money came from somewhere.

Quote: MDawg

Why would anyone keep crying doom and gloom and then do nothing about it. What a waste of tears!
link to original post

No idea. Is it someone you know ?

Friend of yours?

Now I have the complete set, both white and black truffle olive oil.


Was hard to find these for a while, but they seem readily available right now. Relatively small bottles so I got two of each.

Quote: MDawg

Friend of yours?


link to original post

Hey now!! Don't drag me into this.

I don't like having dreams about casino play. That's a sign, I think, of that it's gotten too ingrained in my psyche!

We were supposed to be in Tahoe around now. We would have made it, but with all the airline cancellations we would probably be stuck there now, until after New Year's.

Quote: MDawg

We were supposed to be in Tahoe around now. We would have made it, but with all the airline cancellations we would probably be stuck there now, until after New Year's.


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Just call up Netjets, they will have you on a plane within 4 hours.

Right but it would have been part of a Seven Stars free annual retreat, for a couple week stay. Would have divided the time between one of the Stateline hotels and our own place in SLT. Still have time to rebook it for January.

Meantime we will not be in Vegas for New Year's. The casinos seem to think that everyone who planned to show up will appear, but we are among the cancellations. When we're in Vegas don't want to leave, when away from Vegas, don't want to go.

I personally have no interest in Rolex watches but I pay my key AP team members so much money at least one has shown they do have an interest.

I was quite surprised when she bragged she had spent some of her hard earned money on a Rolex.

Yes, that's her arm wearing it along with a Cartier bracelet.

Are you sure that's not a fauxlex?

Quote: rainman

Are you sure that's not a fauxlex?
link to original post

Why?

The watch itself might be genuine. Looks like a stainless steel Datejust. (It is definitely not a precious metal watch - it is S/S.) But the dial is aftermarket, as is the diamond bezel and all those diamonds placed into the watch itself and into the bracelet. The diamonds (at a glance) all look real but are much lower quality than the diamonds that would be placed into a Rolex by the factory, also, there is no stainless steel Rolex that has all those diamonds placed into it in that way all over the place. (The most iced out Rolex stainless Datejust you will find would have a factory diamond dial and factory diamond bezel, that's it.)

For example, here is a stainless steel Datejust (the latest model 41mm) with all that aftermarket bling on it:


and the appraised value, really means nada - this one sold at auction recently for around $12000. (And the appraiser didn't even know what he was talking about because that Datejust ref. 126300 is all stainless steel, the appraiser goofed when he designated the case material as "white gold.")

So, assuming that your employee's underlying watch is real (which, even if it is, it's not the latest 41mm Datejust it is an older one, worth a lot less), and knowing that all the diamonds are aftermarket (not factory Rolex) but assuming that all the diamonds are real, I'd value that watch at somewhere around $8000 - 9000 wholesale, $14000 - 17000 retail. Of course, if she were taken for a ride, she could have paid as much as $20000 for it.

Now, if it's fake diamonds on there, then we would also assume that the watch too is fake, which would mean that the whole deal would be about worthless, but I am giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming a genuine, stainless (but slightly older model, probably a 36mm) Datejust, iced out with all aftermarket low to medium quality diamonds.

Now as far as the Cartier, there are many love bracelets that are not Cartier - many are not even precious metal, and the non precious metal bracelets are worth about nothing, but some are genuine gold and even with real diamonds, so they are decent jewelry, but cost a fraction of the genuine.

I have some doubts that the Cartier is genuine, because as far as I know (based on looking at my wife's and pics of other Cartier bracelets online), that particular model comes in two versions, one is more like diamond pave with the diamonds all close together:


or, with the diamonds more spaced apart, like this:




and the one Darkoz's employee is wearing, is closer to the latter, but the one the D.Oz girl is wearing has the diamonds set not quite the same as the genuine Cartier. Now, there might be an older version of that bracelet that is genuine Cartier and just like that, but to my amateur eye it doesn't look quite right. I may be wrong.

That particular Cartier bracelet, in 18K white gold, if genuine, would have a resale value around $37000 (original retail even higher) which is a lot more than that watch. (If white gold, genuine low quality diamonds, but NOT Cartier, worth maybe $10000. or so.)

Part of the question then about whether that stuff is genuine would be: are DarkOz employees earning enough to blow fifty grand on a bracelet and watch? I have bought quite a few genuine Cartier bracelets for my wife, and that one your employee is wearing, if genuine, is about at the top of the Cartier Love bracelet line, the only one nicer is the Love bracelet with diamonds even in each "screw" bezel, in addition to the rows of diamonds all the way around.

One thing that is interesting, if everything is genuine Cartier and Rolex, is that she is wearing them "mafia" style with the bracelet right next to the watch, which leads to scratching the hell out of both. Mafia style also connotes not caring about the metal to metal damage that will occur daily, because a Mafia guy may always pull another heist and buy another Rolex or bracelet hot for a fraction of its value.

Anything I wanted was a phone call away.

Free cars. Keys to a dozen
hideouts all over the city.

I'd make ten grand over a weekend...

...then blow the winnings in a week
or go to sharks to pay the bookies.

Didn't matter.

It didn't mean anything. When I
was broke I would go rob some more.

Quote: MDawg

The watch itself might be genuine. Looks like a stainless steel Datejust. (It is definitely not a precious metal watch - it is S/S.) But the dial is aftermarket, as is the diamond bezel and all those diamonds placed into the watch itself and into the bracelet. The diamonds (at a glance) all look real but are much lower quality than the diamonds that would be placed into a Rolex by the factory, also, there is no stainless steel Rolex that has all those diamonds placed into it in that way all over the place. (The most iced out Rolex stainless Datejust you will find would have a factory diamond dial and factory diamond bezel, that's it.)

For example, here is a stainless steel Datejust (the latest model 41mm) with all that aftermarket bling on it:


and the appraised value, really means nada - this one sold at auction recently for around $12000. (And the appraiser didn't even know what he was talking about because that Datejust ref. 126300 is all stainless steel, the appraiser goofed when he designated the case material as "white gold.")

So, assuming that your employee's underlying watch is real (which, even if it is, it's not the latest 41mm Datejust it is an older one, worth a lot less), and knowing that all the diamonds are aftermarket (not factory Rolex) but assuming that all the diamonds are real, I'd value that watch at somewhere around $8000 - 9000 wholesale, $14000 - 17000 retail. Of course, if she were taken for a ride, she could have paid as much as $20000 for it.

Now, if it's fake diamonds on there, then we would also assume that the watch too is fake, which would mean that the whole deal would be about worthless, but I am giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming a genuine, stainless (but slightly older model, probably a 36mm) Datejust, iced out with all aftermarket low to medium quality diamonds.

Now as far as the Cartier, there are many love bracelets that are not Cartier - many are not even precious metal, and the non precious metal bracelets are worth about nothing, but some are genuine gold and even with real diamonds, so they are decent jewelry, but cost a fraction of the genuine.

I have some doubts that the Cartier is genuine, because as far as I know (based on looking at my wife's and pics of other Cartier bracelets online), that particular model comes in two versions, one is more like diamond pave with the diamonds all close together:


or, with the diamonds more spaced apart, like this:




and the one Darkoz's employee is wearing, is closer to the latter, but the one the D.Oz girl is wearing has the diamonds set not quite the same as the genuine Cartier. Now, there might be an older version of that bracelet that is genuine Cartier and just like that, but to my amateur eye it doesn't look quite right. I may be wrong.

That particular Cartier bracelet, in 18K white gold, if genuine, would have a resale value around $37000 (original retail even higher) which is a lot more than that watch. (If white gold, genuine low quality diamonds, but NOT Cartier, worth maybe $10000. or so.)

Part of the question then about whether that stuff is genuine would be: are DarkOz employees earning enough to blow fifty grand on a bracelet and watch? I have bought quite a few genuine Cartier bracelets for my wife, and that one your employee is wearing, if genuine, is about at the top of the Cartier Love bracelet line, the only one nicer is the Love bracelet with diamonds even in each "screw" bezel, in addition to the rows of diamonds all the way around.

One thing that is interesting, if everything is genuine Cartier and Rolex, is that she is wearing them "mafia" style with the bracelet right next to the watch, which leads to scratching the hell out of both. Mafia style also connotes not caring about the metal to metal damage that will occur daily, because a Mafia guy may always pull another heist and buy another Rolex or bracelet hot for a fraction of its value.

Anything I wanted was a phone call away.

Free cars. Keys to a dozen
hideouts all over the city.

I'd make ten grand over a weekend...

...then blow the winnings in a week
or go to sharks to pay the bookies.

Didn't matter.

It didn't mean anything. When I
was broke I would go rob some more.


link to original post

I will have to ask her the price of the cartier.

As for the watch what you say jives. She told me she paid $11,000 and she didn't specify retail or wholesale. She may not have purchased it new though. A purchase through a second hand store still makes it a Rolex.

She certainly could afford an $11,000 watch working for me. She could even afford a $50,000 watch and Cartier but knowing her and the amount she makes I highly doubt that she would approach anywhere near that.

Those watches are very hard to come by legitimately.

Son in law wears one as part of his business uniform. Had to wait nearly two years to get it, Took repeated visits to the shop by him and my daughter making other purchases, or just to say hello, over that period to be granted the purchase.

Now, he's looking to buy another for investment, and started the process all over again.

Rolex Watch Theft Wave Hits Major Western Cities

I've been asked by MDawg to give permission to the Wizard to delete a quoted post by a suspected known rule-breaker who has been saying essentially the same thing for months and months here and elsewhere. I'm just astonished the poster had the figures for how many sessions were played by MDawg and his overall claimed wins of over $1 million. That sums up a previous high score that was never quite posted here before and it says a lot about MDawg's success during the many months in question. But the second paragraph I quoted says MDawg told the Wizard he came out about "even" during that time while playing his favorite game (he had not yet switched over to other games) and it was about the time the Wizard was verifying he was a real person and not some random George Santos character who lies about everything about his life. So why would MDawg say he was "even" after winning a million dollars? It doesn't make sense. Maybe some win/loss statements from MDawg with the appropriate blackouts on personal information are in order to clear up this confusion. It does get to the heart of what the former poster had been saying while not a former poster so many times while here, so I'm not repeating anything new except the aggregation of the stats he compiled. Is MDawg just making up numbers for no reason at all but to upset a forum full of non-ultra high rollers? I can't even say the other forum members are not ultra high rollers since they seem to post big wins now and then. People play their own games and have blind spots about other's play.

Two pages later, on page 294, (and how many posts were made by the former member in this thread before being banned from MDawg's thread?) MDawg posted a lot of chip porn on the order of up to half a million dollars or more on one table. Before that, Once Dear mentioned something about a $10 million bankroll and I wasn't sure if OD was referring to my crazy win streaks on my home game or MDawg's unlimited wealth. If OD was referring to MDawg's unlimited wealth, yes, MDawg could throw any number of chips on the felt, say he won them from near nothing and log another 100+ winning sessions totaling another $1 million from a trip that dates after the former posters' complaint period. But only a redacted win/loss statement could clear the confusion about whether MDawg is still even, on a losing streak, or is on a winning streak against all odds as the former poster can't believe.

I believe this is an open issue and I don't give my permission to the Wizard to erase MDawg's previous high score of hundreds of session posts summed up in a former posters best estimate of a win/loss statement of MDawg's blizzard of winning sessions posted here and elsewhere. If the Wizard and MDawg want to try to clear up whether MDawg was "even" at the time of verification, or up $1 million, that would be nice. I'm not trying to be a KewlJ fan, but this repeated issue is something I can get behind.

I believe MDawg attempted to post a TV screen of his Win/Loss statement from the casino long before his verification with the Wizard. If he could do that again (updated) and post it, it might help.

Quote: Tanko

Those watches are very hard to come by legitimately.

Son in law wears one as part of his business uniform. Had to wait nearly two years to get it, Took repeated visits to the shop by him and my daughter making other purchases, or just to say hello, over that period to be granted the purchase.

Now, he's looking to buy another for investment, and started the process all over again.

Rolex Watch Theft Wave Hits Major Western Cities
link to original post

Watches like that can be found all over Vegas especially if you are willing to check the private parts of hooker's.

Rolex , Audemars, Patek watches are not at all hard to come by in the gray market. The gray market simply means - sold by dealers who are not authorized Rolex dealers. The vast vast majority of Rolexes sold are sold today by gray market dealers or by individuals looking to re-sell their own watches.

Although technically these watches are pre-owned, very often the watches are brand new, never worn. It may seem hard to fathom how a watch that was previously owned has never been worn and is identical to the brand new watch at the AD (authorized dealer), but very often the way gray market dealers get their watches is through buyers who wait to get the watches from the AD and then promptly sell them into the gray market.

It was during the pandemic that getting a Rolex from the AD became next to impossible, as supply lines for everything including luxury watches diminished, but even before that it has for many years now been hard to get certain Rolex models such as especially the sport models (Daytona, GMT, Yachtmaster, etc.) through the AD because there is a sort of "waiting list" to get them. The waiting list today isn't even really a list, it is more about that the AD will sell their more in demand models only to good customers who have bought watches from them in the past.

As a result of this lack of availability from the authorized dealers of Rolexes and other fine timepieces, especially during the pandemic, the prices of a lot of these watches skyrocketed, and hit a peak sometime last year. This year prices have been dropping steadily, especially the past six months. Keep in mind though that this "price" reflects the gray market or resale price. The AD price hasn't changed at all this year, although a small price increase in anticipated in early 2023.

Anyway, the fact that it is very hard to walk into an AD and get many Rolex models at retail, makes it so that for many years now (and this may never change), any hard to obtain from the authorized dealer Rolex, Audemars, Patek, etc. will re-sell for more than full retail. That's what is going on, and it only applies to in demand models, which the list of what those are, changes slightly every now and then.

As far as that watch D.Oz's female employee is wearing, something like is readily available, anytime. No Rolex AD sells a watch like that because it is adorned with aftermarket diamonds, including an aftermarket dial and aftermarket bezel. Also, her watch is an old Datejust that could be anywhere from 5 - 20 (or even more) years old. Here is one, just for example, available today for about $13.5K after discount


So - yeah - if you want to buy from the AD, and are willing to wait, you will pay full retail only. If not, you will have to pay a premium to get the watch from somewhere else if you want it in brand new condition, but with most models, you will be able to get it for less than retail if you buy it in pre-owned condition from somewhere.

I wrote here about the fluctuations in prices for a certain Rolex, the platinum Daytona 116506, in the aftermarket.

So it's really only for those who can't imagine buying from other than directly from the Rolex authorized dealer that the availability is scarce. There are many many reputable gray market dealers that will sell you a Rolex as soon as you are willing to pay, and over the years, usually they will sell you the watch for below retail, but lately the phenomenon has been that you will end up having to pay over retail.

Just like comics, paintings, beanie babies, and any other collectible.

As far as what ChumpChange is posting he is mixing and matching a lot of different things. The session where Wizard verified my win pursuant to the DarkOz brought challenge was in early Spring 2021. It was in mid Fall 2021 that Wizard and I met casually while he showed me magic tricks and by that time we had met other times, and have met many times since, and that meeting had nothing to do with verifying that I existed or played big in the casinos.

There were many legitimate discussions at WOV about anything to do with Wizard and me in 2021, and my writing to ChumpChange asking him to consent to deleting just the portion of what the sock puppet wrote the other week was simply because I feel that giving these damn sock puppets - whoever they might be - any sort of free voice to leave their termite droppings at this forum is to encourage that sort of thing. If ChumpChange or anyone else wants to say something, why not just say it, without the need to give a platform to banned sock puppets. That there is at least one nuked member around who is apparently kept awake at nights thinking about me is fine - that he pollutes this forum with all sorts of negative things he has to say about current members in good standing including the Wizard, is not, and no one should encourage these sock puppets.

What's more interesting is the fact that ChumpChange is able to write something of length and remain more or less on topic belies all these off the wall incoherent hijackings he makes so - is it all an act?

I had to watch a 1976 movie about Uganda after reading Dark Oz's post before I got suspended last time. What the ---- was that ?
It certainly wasn't about the Southwest Airlines People's Liberation Front...or was it?

Quote: ChumpChange

I had to watch a 1976 movie about Uganda after reading Dark Oz's post before I got suspended last time. What the ---- was that ?
It certainly wasn't about the Southwest Airlines People's Liberation Front...or was it?
link to original post

Raid on Entebbe.

There are three different film versions. The one with Charles Bronson is the best IMO

Quote: darkoz

I will have to ask her the price of the cartier.

As for the watch what you say jives. She told me she paid $11,000 and she didn't specify retail or wholesale. She may not have purchased it new though. A purchase through a second hand store still makes it a Rolex.

She certainly could afford an $11,000 watch working for me. She could even afford a $50,000 watch and Cartier but knowing her and the amount she makes I highly doubt that she would approach anywhere near that.
link to original post

Right, as I posted above, there is one available today that is even more iced out than the one she bought, for $13.5K after the 10% discount the watch dealer is offering. It's easy to get Rolexes like that there are many around.

As far as the Cartier bracelet, if she spent in the neighborhood of $35K, $37K (or more) on it, it is genuine Cartier (or at least would hope so, that she wasn't duped). If a lot less than that, it might be a replica, although some replicas are still fine jewelry, just not genuine Cartier.

If I understand what you are saying, you are saying that it would not be smart of her to plunk $50K into a watch and bracelet given what she makes? I think the way that works is - it gets back to the different mentalities that people display when making decent money. Some save a lot, some spend a lot. But it does come down to whether the person with that money coming in maintains the income. If the good income is maintained, then blowing every nickel that comes in on something or other and saving not a lot might not matter. But if the income is cut off, then having spent all of it might become an issue.

Buying a SS Datejust and then putting all that aftermarket stuff on it is sort of like buying a used Honda Civic and then pimping it out with $20k of aftermarket bling. Makes no sense financially and looks ghetto AF

Quote: MDawg

Quote: darkoz

I will have to ask her the price of the cartier.

As for the watch what you say jives. She told me she paid $11,000 and she didn't specify retail or wholesale. She may not have purchased it new though. A purchase through a second hand store still makes it a Rolex.

She certainly could afford an $11,000 watch working for me. She could even afford a $50,000 watch and Cartier but knowing her and the amount she makes I highly doubt that she would approach anywhere near that.
link to original post

Right, as I posted above, there is one available today that is even more iced out than the one she bought, for $13.5K after the 10% discount the watch dealer is offering. It's easy to get Rolexes like that there are many around.

As far as the Cartier bracelet, if she spent in the neighborhood of $35K, $37K (or more) on it, it is genuine Cartier (or at least would hope so, that she wasn't duped). If a lot less than that, it might be a replica, although some replicas are still fine jewelry, just not genuine Cartier.

If I understand what you are saying, you are saying that it would not be smart of her to plunk $50K into a watch and bracelet given what she makes? I think the way that works is - it gets back to the different mentalities that people display when making decent money. Some save a lot, some spend a lot. But it does come down to whether the person with that money coming in maintains the income. If the good income is maintained, then blowing every nickel that comes in on something or other and saving not a lot might not matter. But if the income is cut off, then having spent all of it might become an issue.
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I stay away from judging people and how they spend their money. I don't like when people criticize me for spending $1000 on a ten cents comic book (because it's rare from the 1950's).

I'm the guy that buys a toy collectible SEALED and opens it destroying half it's value because the reason I purchased it is to play with it, not collect it to upsell. When I do that people think I am a lunatic. But I am happy to get to play with a rare toy. That's just me.

How she made her purchase, aftermarket additions I didn't delve into it. Her purchase is making her happy so anyone who is critical is missing the point IMO. Spend your money the way you prefer which makes you happy.

As to the Cartier I will have to ask her but I have to figure out the best way. Just asking the wrong question might insult her regardless of whether it's real or not.

After knowing her for decades she isn't the type to brag about false stuff. But she could have been ripped off or she could have gone through a grey market or even a black market. But knowing her well I doubt she spent $37,000 on it. But again I have to ask in a politic manner and get back to you guys.