The Labouchère

For 23 years I've been preaching the betting systems not only can't beat a game with a house edge, but they can't even dent it. That is absolutely true. However, I've noticed YouTube videos on betting systems get views in the six and seven figures. I also know my boss would prefer I write more about things that the world is actually interested in. That said, I think I may bite my lip and say more about betting systems. I will do so in a truthful way, showing they may achieve certain short-term goals, but still carry the same house edge at the end of the day.

To start, I plan to write about the Labouchère. My biggest question is how to pronounce it, because I plan to make a video about it. Most videos on the topic it end it with a vowel, as in "day." However, I've asked two people who have studied French, and they say it ends in an R sound, as in "pear." Two of the forum choices will be on the pronunciation.

The Labouchère, also known as the "cancellation" system relies on the "regression to the mean." It's generally made on even money bets. As long as the player can win at least 1/3 of his bets in a session, he will eventually meet his session goal. As soon as 2W - L = 10 (with some exceptions), the player may declare victory for that session, where:

W = Winning bets
L = Losing bets

The typical way it works is:

1. The player divides his winning goal by 10. He then writes down this quotient ten times in a line.
2. The player bets the sum of the left and right items in the list.
3. If the result from step 2 is a win, he crosses off both left and right numbers from the list.
4. If the result from step 2 is a loss, he appends the list with the bet amount to the right end of the list.
5. If there is only one number left, the player bets that, then repeating steps 3 and 4.

Where there doesn't seem to be uniform agreement is what to do if the player has some money in his bankroll but not enough to follow rule 2 or 5. Here is what my simulation did:

1. Bet the full amount left in the bankroll.
2. If the bet loses, walk away.
3. If the bet wins, and is less than the amount on the right side of the list, then reduce the number on the right side by the amount bet.
4. If the bet wins, and is more than the amount on the right side of the list, then cross of the right number and deduct from the left side the amount bet less the former amount on the right side. Example: Left number = 50, right number = 100, bankroll = 120. Cross off the 100 and change the left number of 30.

All that said, here are some initial results of my simulation based on betting on the Player in baccarat. The simulation ignores ties. As a reminder the house edge in baccarat on the Player bet is 1.365%, if you ignore ties. Here are the results. The starting bankroll is along the top row and the goal is to always win 10 units. The total sessions played in the simulation was over 12 billion.

Starting Bankroll	50	100	250	500	1000	2500
Probability winning goal reached	81.47%	89.52%	95.34%	97.53%	98.71%	99.45%
Average number of bets	17.810	19.565	20.766	21.184	21.404	21.542
Average units bet	82.023	112.075	155.106	189.515	225.548	275.329
Expected win per session	-1.119	-1.530	-2.117	-2.584	-3.078	-3.754
Ratio money lost to Money bet	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%

At this time I'll pause for comments, corrections, questions, and the pronunciation of Labouchère. Thank you in advance for all input.

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labouch%C3%A8re_system.

It's an interesting experiment and can understand why people might like a "system" to gets odds on at, say, Baccarat. So an article on which is best might be useful.

So they might come in with 50 and try and make as many 10's before losing their "50". If so is this system better than say (a) flat betting 1 (b) flat betting 10 (c) betting 10, then 20's (d) using this system but use 5 entries. In theory you want to minimise your average total bet.

My guess, being Canadian and all, is "La boosh air"

Quote: rsactuary

My guess, being Canadian and all, is "La boosh air"

This video, as a third possibility, pronounces it "La boosh" (without the air).

Quote: Wizard

My biggest question is how to pronounce it,

laa/boo/cher is how it's pronounced.
'chère' in French means dear. In New
Oleans you hear men calling women
chère all time, meaning 'dear one'.

You mean your boss doesn't find
unicycles and pet cemeteries
interesting? A progression only
works if you already have an edge.
It speeds it up hugely. If you don't
have the edge, it speeds up losing.

Quote: Wizard

This video, as a third possibility, pronounces it "La boosh" (without the air).

Um that guy doesn't know French. lol

Quote: EvenBob

laa/boo/cher is how it's pronounced.
'chère' in French means dear. ...

I’m no expert. Hell, I only have a hint of a clue: I don’t know what old movie included the line “mon chère” but I recall the chère part being pronounced like Sherry with more emphasis on the last syllable.

I read your post, and the Wikipedia article (twice!), and still don’t get it - which is fine since I try to avoid systems.

Except my method (system?) of pressing bets sounds kinda like the Reverse Labouchère described in the Wikipedia article - except I don’t write any numbers or specifically keep track.

I didn’t vote since none of the choices really apply.

However I find it humorous that you included the option: “The Wiz has become a betting system quack.” I also think it humorous that it’s currently the most selected option.

Frankly, I disagree with it.

While I agree that systems do nothing to trim the edge, they can do plenty to extend the time at the table and/or enjoyment level. And isn’t that what entertainment budgets are all about?

I always assumed it was pronounced: La Boo Shay

Here's another one. laa/boo/share

https://www.howtopronounce.com/french/labouchere

I don't know if this comparison is appropriate, but can we look at the pronunciation of avoir?



I've been to France twice and Montreal several times and have pronounced it "ov-wa." However, in the video above, I detect a faint r sound at the end.

There might be regional differences. I'm definitely no authority on French, but know little German. The word for thank you in German is guten tag. Some pronounce the last letter with a hard G and others with a sound I can't spell, but one that might not want you to stand too close to person saying it.

Quote: Wizard

Table removed by management -- It's screwing up something the thread formatting

At this time I'll pause for comments, corrections, questions, and the pronunciation of Labouchère. Thank you in advance for all input.

What is the flipside of meeting your win goal? IOW, is it either make your goal 99.45% of the time with a bankroll of 2500 but lose it all 0.55%?

Quote: AZDuffman

What is the flipside of meeting your win goal? IOW, is it either make your goal 99.45% of the time with a bankroll of 2500 but lose it all 0.55%?

The goal is winning 10 units. The alternative is losing the number of units in the top row, 2500 for example.

I would place the sh sound in the 3rd syllable. That said, with the accent grave, it's more like Cher (like sonny & ___) than share. No accent = silent trailing e, trailing e = pronounced r, accent grave on penultimate e = (approx) vowel sound in left, not vowel sound in mare.

Avoir ends with an r sound, but the emphasis is heavily placed on the oi sound (the "wa") and the r is just kind of there at the end. Same with revoir in au revoir.

Quote: Wizard

I don't know if this comparison is appropriate, but can we look at the pronunciation of avoir?

I've been to France twice and Montreal several times and have pronounced it "ov-wa." However, in the video above, I detect a faint r sound at the end.

Again, being Canadian and having to take 6 years of French, there is definitely an "r" sound in avoir.

I don't understand this thread. All any
progression does is make losing take
longer. But the loss is still inevitable.

Quote: EvenBob

I don't understand this thread. All any
progression does is make losing take
longer. But the loss is still inevitable.

I would argue it makes "losing" happen faster, but it depends on how you define "losing." I define it as how long it takes to lose $x. The slowest way is to flat bet as little as possible every hand.

Quote: Wizard

I also know my boss would prefer I write more about things that the world is actually interested in.

And by the world, I assume that means punters. Be advised that some online casinos actually have rules specifically against betting systems. And more specifically, using Martingale systems.

Quote: EvenBob

I don't understand this thread. All any
progression does is make losing take
longer. But the loss is still inevitable.

But if you had special RNG detecting abilities(such as yourself) imagine what one might be able to accomplish using some type of progression system on an RNG game online. It certainly wouldn't be the first time somebody detective a flaw in the programming took advantage of it(I certainly have).

For those of us who don't have any special RNG detecting abilities perhaps the aid of computers could help assist us. I just wish I knew more about how to do that. Perhaps somebody here knows more about how to do something like that, but they don't know about online gambling. All private messages welcome.

Quote: AxelWolf

imagine what one might be able to accomplish using some type of progression system on an RNG game online.

Fastest way online to bring heat
is use a progression, let alone
one that's winning. Even in a
B%M casino progressions are
noticed if you're winning.

Quote: EvenBob

Even in a
B%M casino progressions are
noticed if you're winning.

I have known many table game people here in Vegas at the highest levels and not one of them ever mentioned fearing betting system players to me.

Quote: Wizard

I have known many table game people here in Vegas at the highest levels and not one of them ever mentioned fearing betting system players to me.

Who said fear. All I know is that
when I use them the pit notices
and watches. Every time. Online
it's a joke. As soon as I start a
progression I start having
'problems'. The game freezes,
or cuts out entirely. Never
happens when flat betting.

I think players using a progression
is a rare event, that;s why they
notice. I will always watch a
progression player because I
just never see them in roulette.

Quote: EvenBob

Who said fear. All I know is that
when I use them the pit notices
and watches. Every time. Online
it's a joke. As soon as I start a
progression I start having
'problems'. The game freezes,
or cuts out entirely. Never
happens when flat betting.

When my casino opens, I will roll out the red carpet for you and instruct the staff to not stare.

Here are more simulation results based on other games.

Craps -- Pass line

Starting Bankroll	50	100	250	500	1000	2500
Probality winning goal reached	81.40%	89.47%	95.31%	97.51%	98.69%	99.45%
Average number bet	17.821	19.583	20.791	21.213	21.435	21.573
Average total bet	82.123	112.285	155.551	190.203	226.522	276.844
Expected win per session	-1.160	-1.586	-2.198	-2.689	-3.201	-3.915
Ratio money lost to Money bet	1.41%	1.41%	1.41%	1.41%	1.41%	1.41%

Craps -- Don't Pass line

Starting Bankroll	50	100	250	500	1000	2500
Probality winning goal reached	81.47%	89.52%	95.34%	97.53%	98.71%	99.45%
Average number bet	17.810	19.564	20.765	21.184	21.403	21.541
Average total bet	82.023	112.065	155.094	189.495	225.516	275.306
Expected win per session	-1.119	-1.527	-2.113	-2.585	-3.075	-3.754
Ratio money lost to Money bet	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%	1.36%

Double-Zero Roulette -- Any even money bet

Starting Bankroll	50	100	250	500	1000	2500
Probality winning goal reached	75.45%	84.71%	92.23%	95.44%	97.34%	98.71%
Average number bet	18.697	21.046	22.881	23.615	24.046	24.351
Average total bet	89.839	129.507	193.860	252.141	320.010	426.256
Expected win per session	-4.729	-6.817	-10.204	-13.270	-16.843	-22.427
Ratio money lost to Money bet	5.26%	5.26%	5.26%	5.26%	5.26%	5.26%

Single-Zero Roulette -- Any even money bet

Starting Bankroll	50	100	250	500	1000	2500
Probality winning goal reached	79.52%	88.01%	94.41%	96.93%	98.33%	99.26%
Average number bet	18.123	20.070	21.465	21.978	22.257	22.441
Average total bet	84.738	117.939	167.599	209.142	254.264	319.542
Expected win per session	-2.291	-3.188	-4.527	-5.652	-6.877	-8.648
Ratio money lost to Money bet	2.70%	2.70%	2.70%	2.70%	2.70%	2.71%

Quote: EvenBob

Here's another one. laa/boo/share

https://www.howtopronounce.com/french/labouchere

Yep, I'm native French speaker and can also confirm this is the right pronunciation.

Quote: tyler498

Yep, I'm native French speaker and can also confirm this is the right pronunciation.

Thank you!

Quote: Wizard

When my casino opens, I will roll out the red carpet for you and instruct the staff to not stare.

Your online casino? It's built
into the system to reject
progression players, staff
has nothing to do with it.
People get lucky with
progressions sometimes
and the casino can take
a big hit. I even see it in when
I place in fun mode, start using
a d'Alembert and it's screen
freeze time.

I think they pay attention in
live casino's because 97% of
their customers in roulette are
amateurs and a progression
means you at least understand
the math. I stick to flat betting,
nobody can win flat betting.

Quote: EvenBob

Your online casino?

I meant my live casino.

Quote:

It's built
into the system to reject
progression players, staff
has nothing to do with it.
People get lucky with
progressions sometimes
and the casino can take
a big hit. I even see it in when
I place in fun mode, start using
a d'Alembert and it's screen
freeze time.

I've know people at the highest levels in online gaming and I have never heard this.

There are some online casinos that have rules against Progressive betting systems. However, those are probably the ones you want to stay away from in the first place.

Problem winning too much at one place, Just go to the next one.

Bob, there are over a thousand casinos online, not all are good, but there are some that are very good with a good reputation. With all the options online and just a little bit of effort one could find a place that allows whatever system or method you got going, hell, there's even bonuses, rebates and specials to be had.

There has been, there currently is and there will be in the future lots of money to be made I'm online Advantage play.
The wizard has even mentioned he knows somebody personally that makes huge amounts online.

It's always nice to know that most people are set in their ways and they think they know more than they actually do.

Quote: AxelWolf

There are some online casinos that have rules against Progressive betting systems.

Thank you

Quote:

Bob, there are over a thousand casinos online,

And how many allow US players,1%?

I completely understand in long term casino has the edge on any betting systems .But this labo method is better when compared to martingale or modified martingale method.

Instead of having the quotient varying ,y not have a quotient same .

For example say i am playing on a live dealer baccarat in a electronic machine and my bank roll is 500 and i aim for 50 or 60 dollars win ke it to 560 .

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 . starting bet will be 10 dollars and even if we run into a streak of 9 .we can manage with the bet size without breaking the bankroll.

Key factors here .discipline and not too much greed.

The above method is better than marty and modified marty(which has been successful few times).

Marty : 5 10 20 40 80 160 320 ( should never be played)
Modified marty 5 10 20 40 45 50 55 60 65( if say we win on 65 go back and bet 60 and go back till u win 40 and start over again from 5)

Labo 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 ( way better wen compared to above 2 systems) .

Quote: EvenBob

Thank you



And how many allow US players,1%?

I said some, but it's not that many that have that rule, at least not that I've noticed.
There are over 200 online casinos available to United States players.

If whatever gig you have going on is valuable enough, you could have access to about 5 or 10 times that.

Even if there's only one or two casinos you can beat silly, why not?

That's a lot of on sale artichokes you could buy.

Quote: AxelWolf

There are over 200 online casinos available to United States players.

Really? Out of those how many offer
live play. Cause playing against a
computer is rigged as hell. I asked
the owner of this forum awhile back
and he came up with bout 5, and
2 of those had horrible reps of not
paying players.

My video on the Labrochere is ready to preview. It is still in private mode, so I'm able to make changes. That said, I welcome all comments.



Direct: https://youtu.be/CaLYbQkZ5B4

Quote: Wizard

My video on the Labrochere is ready to preview. It is still in private mode, so I'm able to make changes. That said, I welcome all comments.

All your examples are if you're
betting blind every time. There
are ways in bac to stay very close
to even where you are never
behind more than 3 or 4 units
flat betting. Some progressions
will work very well when that is
the case. But you have to be
very familiar with the game
and most are not.

Quote: EvenBob

All your examples are if you're
betting blind every time. There
are ways in bac to stay very close
to even where you are never
behind more than 3 or 4 units
flat betting. Some progressions
will work very well when that is
the case. But you have to be
very familiar with the game
and most are not.

Can you define “betting blind” in baccarat ?

And also , what’s the other way of betting ?

Quote: michael99000

Can you define “betting blind” in baccarat ?

Not looking at past results and
betting whatever you feel like.

Quote:

And also , what’s the other way of betting ?

Looking at past results and making
educated guesses based on experience.

Quote: EvenBob

Not looking at past results and
betting whatever you feel like.



Looking at past results and making
educated guesses based on experience.

Thanks Bob

I definitely agree with one thing you said. Most are
not familiar with the game.

Quote: EvenBob

There
are ways in bac to stay very close
to even where you are never
behind more than 3 or 4 units
flat betting.

Please expand on how.

Quote: Wizard

My video on the Labrochere is ready to preview. It is still in private mode, so I'm able to make changes. That said, I welcome all comments.

Direct: https://youtu.be/CaLYbQkZ5B4

Great video, Wizard!

Just shoot me a PM if you want me to do any write-up articles, proofread or add anything to the WoO pages.

It's absolutely true that Betting Systems won't dent the house edge, but of course, the flip side of that coin is that they won't make the house edge any worse. Naturally, as you have already pointed out, flat betting the lowest amount that you can stand (all else being equal) is the best way to reduce expected loss per hand, which extrapolates to the lowest expected loss per hour, et cetera.

And, as always, people should play within their means and strictly for entertainment value if they are going to do -EV betting. If you bet nothing, then your expected loss is also nothing.

But, if betting systems increase a person's entertainment value, or the person places a high priority on a, "Session win," of a particular amount, they can be useful. For example, if you have a win goal of $10,000 and only have $100, a Reverse Martingale on Craps is far more likely to achieve the win goal than flat betting minimum on the Pass Line. The most likely means, of course, being to simply bet everything you have, except to only bet to target when you only need one more win.

With all of that out of the way, the Labouchere is my favorite table games betting system and second-favorite system overall. Again, speaking only from an entertainment standpoint. I guess I'll go ahead and do a brief analysis on playability right here:

TRUE LABOU?

The first thing to get out of the way, and I think the video did an EXCELLENT job of highlighting this, it's that there's little to no mathematical reason to stick strictly to the system. Again, the expected loss of any individual bet is simply the bet amount multiplied by the house edge expressed as a decimal. The reason I say Wizard did an excellent job is because that was (though winning) a truly terrible Labouchere line that well highlights the dangers of the system. While they usually don't, bet amounts can get out of control very quickly.

As we can see, if your original Labouchere line has the same amounts, then if you cross off all of the original numbers without the system ultimately succeeding, you'll often find yourself betting higher amounts than the original left/right amounts combined. The reason why is because what were the center/right amounts eventually become the leftmost amount and then are eventually eliminated from the line. Only higher amounts remain.

One workaround for this is to simply take the amount that would go on the right (and sometimes, in very bad situations, table maximum will dictate that you either have to do this or switch tables) and break it up into smaller amounts and put those on the right, or the left and the right. For instance, $600 can become two amounts of $300 that are each added somewhere on the line. These amounts can also theoretically be stuck somewhere in the middle of the line with an eye towards restricting the size of the highest (individual) amount to be bet at any one time.

Another situation in which this workaround might be needed is if you don't have enough money to make the next bet. When this happens, STOP PLAYING!!! If you're not going to stop playing, though, just bet everything and subtract the total amount won from the left and right of the line as you see fit, or remove a smaller number in the middle, if there is one.

The problem with that is that the draw of the Labouchere System is the low win rate needed to achieve success. By adding more numbers than the system calls for, the win rate (%) needed to achieve success also starts going up accordingly.

And, at a certain point, it could be argued that you're not even really using the system anymore.

PROS

*If you can use pen/paper, the Labouchere System is relatively easy to manage. Most casinos, that's only going to apply to Baccarat. Of course, you should generally be allowed to use it at Electronic Table Games, don't see why you couldn't, but casinos sometimes get uptight about weird things.

*A high rate of success for an individual trial that increases provided the player is willing to risk more in total. But, as mentioned in the video, the system failures become that much more devastating. Labouchere lines can spiral out of control quickly.

*As highlighted above, you don't necessarily need to strictly follow the system, so there is some degree of flexibility.

*Strictly speaking, the Labouchere does not only need to be applied to even money bets, or even table games. You could use the same system on a video poker game that allows for several hands at once. The way to do this would be just to eliminate any amount in profit from your Labouchere Line by one means or another. Though I've never done it, 100-play machines that allow you to pick a specific number of hands (and preferably are multi-denomination) could be used.

CONS

*If one is unwary, there are shysters out there who can present the math of the Labouchere System in a deceptive way that actually makes it look like a winning system.

*If you can't use pen and paper, the Labouchere system cannot be used in a practical way at most games if the line gets out of control...unless you have a REALLY great memory. Labouchere Lines can get pretty long, and when they do, it will be difficult to remember what the line looks like. You could use chips as a way of creating a line, but often, you're going to run out of available space to do that on most games. Craps is probably the most user friendly game for the Labouchere if you can't use pen/paper because of the chip racks.

*Perhaps not as quickly as something like the Martingale, but Labouchere losses can devastate you pretty quickly when the system fails.

*The average expected loss per trial, therefore average expected loss per hour, is greater than flat betting the table minimum. The reason why is because your average bet will be in excess of the table minimum. (1)

*Some casinos don't like system players, who knows why? If I ever own a casino, you're more than welcome to come and play the Labouchere System at the Golden Goose Casino and Hotel anytime you wish.

*Some people confuse a high probability of system success on an individual trial with long-term expectation. Don't fall into that trap. Anyone well-versed in gambling is aware of this system, and if it worked, I can promise you I would be at a casino (well, maybe not this minute) doing it. It doesn't work long-term. The probability of success of an individual trial eventually becomes irrelevant the more you attempt the system. That said, if you wanted to achieve a certain win goal on one Labouchere Line and never gamble again as long as you live, it might be okay for that...but still wouldn't be the most likely way.

***I really can't emphasize this enough, probability of winning an individual system attempt does NOTHING to the house edge. Nothing. Zero. Irrelevant. If you had a billion dollars and started with a $5 bet on a Martingale with no Table Maximum, it is incredibly unlikely that you would lose an individual attempt, but eventually you would, and when you do, it will often exceed the amount of all your combined wins prior to that.

ADVICE

Grab a pen and paper, or a separate window on your browser, and try the Labouchere for free on any of the WizardofOdds.com games, or on the games here. Most likely, you won't have to try too many individual trials before one of them spins completely out of control on you!

In general, you shouldn't play with win targets in mind if you're playing a -EV game. You should only play for fun and stop when you are no longer having fun, when you feel like you have won enough or when you have lost the maximum amount you intended to risk losing that visit. If you MUST play with a win target in mind, then the most likely means of achieving it is either almost always or always to bet whatever amount is necessary, on the lowest house edge even money bet possible, that will result in you hitting your profit goal with one win. (Or as few wins as possible if your target win is more than you have to bet)

Don't do it if you are expecting positive results. No matter what system you use, if you flat bet or if you bet randomly...a negative expectation bet will always have a negative expectation and there's nothing you can ever do about that. If you're going to use this system at all, just do it because you are risking money you can afford to lose...because you eventually will lose it if you could play long enough...and because you find it more entertaining than other ways of betting.

(1)That might not be true if you do it on Video Poker, mainly because of the length of time it takes to switch how many hands you are playing. Your average bet will be more than just playing one hand, but your hourly loss might go down just because of the ridiculous amount of time you'll spend switching the number of hands. You'll actually end up playing VP quite slowly, which might be a good thing if it's a -EV VP game..

Quote: EvenBob

There
are ways in bac to stay very close
to even where you are never
behind more than 3 or 4 units
flat betting.

Quote: Wizard

Please expand on how.

When you get three units behind, you quit.

Quote: Wizard

Please expand on how.

It's no mystery. Make educated guesses
based on experience as to the next
outcome. There are people who beat
bac, I know one. A guy from India
in his 50's almost never loses a session
and when he does it's for a fraction of
what he's won so far..

They tolerate him because, and I have
this on good authority, he's taken over
$300K at this casino so far. They want
it back. But the guy never does losing
streaks. If he's wrong 4-5 times in a
row he just leaves. He always bets
the min of $1000 and he often gets
a guy next to him to bet the $1000
he gives him.

This is supposed to be against the
rules, but the Asian winners get away
with murder. It's a reason I avoid bac,
the outright discrimination in favor
of Asians and against whites. I used
to play bac with my wife and sometimes
I'd bet her chips because I see the
Asians do it all the time. The pit busts
a gasket on me and says nothing to
the Asians. They do it right in front
of them, nothing. I point it out and
they say they didn't see it.

Anyway, the Indian guy is amazing.
He's right 5 or 6 times in a row
sometimes. And he bets erratically.
He'll win a couple for $1000 then
shove $5000 out there for the next
bet. Never seen him lose a big bet.
Never seen him express emotion.
It's just a job to him.

Quote: EvenBob

There are people who beat
bac, I know one. A guy from India
in his 50's almost never loses a session
and when he does it's for a fraction of
what he's won so far..

Please expand on the evidence to support this. "I know a guy..." does not meet my threshold.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Wizard

Please expand on how.

It's no mystery. Make educated guesses
based on experience as to the next
outcome. There are people who beat
bac, I know one. A guy from India
in his 50's almost never loses a session
and when he does it's for a fraction of
what he's won so far..

They tolerate him because, and I have
this on good authority, he's taken over
$300K at this casino so far. They want
it back. But the guy never does losing
streaks. If he's wrong 4-5 times in a
row he just leaves. He always bets
the min of $1000 and he often gets
a guy next to him to bet the $1000
he gives him.

This is supposed to be against the
rules, but the Asian winners get away
with murder. It's a reason I avoid bac,
the outright discrimination in favor
of Asians and against whites. I used
to play bac with my wife and sometimes
I'd bet her chips because I see the
Asians do it all the time. The pit busts
a gasket on me and says nothing to
the Asians. They do it right in front
of them, nothing. I point it out and
they say they didn't see it.

Anyway, the Indian guy is amazing.
He's right 5 or 6 times in a row
sometimes. And he bets erratically.
He'll win a couple for $1000 then
shove $5000 out there for the next
bet. Never seen him lose a big bet.
Never seen him express emotion.
It's just a job to him.

So you say you avoid baccarat. Yet you have some very detailed stories of this guys play.

I’m assuming they are stories he tells you , or do you sit and
watch him play ?

I like the middle and the end of the video but think you're missing an opportunity to put more showmanship in the beginning. You tip your hand right out of the gate with a "betting systems suck and I hate talking about them" intro. While this is fine if you want to preach to the WoV choir, you're putting the cart before the horse. Why would anyone else want to watch the next 20 minutes of the video? They already (quite clearly) know how it ends and another gambling video is a mere one click away.

Instead you should introduce yourself and the Labouchère topic, briefly go over some pros and cons (perhaps mentioning that James Bond in the Ian Flemming novels uses the Labouchère system so there's some 007 glamour attached to it), and then (again briefly) go over your own thoughts by showing your 6th Commandment. Then say, "But maybe I'm wrong. Let's give the Labouchère system a fair trial and see how it holds up against the math."

Suddenly the viewer wants to know, "WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?" How will the Wizard conduct a fair trial? There's several pros and cons so what will the verdict be?

Part 2 works great here since, although you end up making a hairy 17 unit bet, Labouchère makes a come back to win the session. Woo Hoo!

Then comes the kill shot. The 1k simulations are utterly damning. Labouchère is holed below the waterline and goes deep six.

The conclusion is where you should crap all over betting Labouchère. Point out that, as the 1k simulations show, although it appears you're winning more (this is where the the system touts live) you're actually sinking in an ocean of red ink. D'oh!

But what about the Fibonacci system? Can it succeed where Labouchère failed? Well, tune in to my next video and...

[I sense that you are embarrassed to be going down this rabbit hole, but I think you can really do something interesting with it.]

Quote: michael99000

I’m assuming

The roulette tables are straight
across from the bac tables. I'm
always watching the games
in between roulette spins.
I never sit and play roulette
because I don't bet every spin.

Quote: Wizard

Please expand on the evidence to support this. "I know a guy..." does not meet my threshold.

That people win playing bac?
Whatever I say would be
anecdotal, what's the point.
Play a lot and pay attention
and you can spot places to
bet that might be better than
others. Knowing when not to
bet is 75% of it.

Quote: EvenBob

That people win playing bac?
Whatever I say would be
anecdotal, what's the point.
Play a lot and pay attention
and you can spot places to
bet that might be better than
others. Knowing when not to
bet is 75% of it.

So you believe that the results board, which shows whether prior hands were banker , player , or tie .. can be used to
determine the outcome of future hands ?

Quote: Gialmere

I like the middle and the end of the video but think you're missing an opportunity to put more showmanship in the beginning....

Thank you for all your comments. I deleted the first version and added a new intro and redid the part about the overall simulation results. I still ruin the ending, but I can't help it. I It's very important to make it perfectly clear that betting systems don't hold water over the long run.

Please have a look at "version 2" at let me know what you think.



Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVIX22-_vAc&feature=youtu.be

Quote: EvenBob

Really? Out of those how many offer
live play. Cause playing against a
computer is rigged as hell. I asked
the owner of this forum awhile back
and he came up with bout 5, and
2 of those had horrible reps of not
paying players.

I certainly don't believe playing against ALL computer gaming is rigged as hell.
Do you think they only target e-table games or would that include video poker as well?

I'm not sitting here counting all the places that have live dealers( you will have do your own homework) How many do you really need, I'm pretty sure there are at least five that I know of that have a decent reputation. I'm not sure if Bovada has live dealers for US market, I can't access it from Nevada but I'm thinking there's a good chance they have live dealers. Wouldn't one or two be sufficient, as long as they pay? I have played countless online casinos and I've only been not paid about 3 or 4 times for minimal amounts less than 400. My investment may have been a few hundred bucks at most.

We might be a little different, I don't give up just because there's a few roadblocks in my way, I try to explore the idea and overcome those roadblocks until I'm certain I can't overcome whatever obstacles in my way. I don't automatically assume just because one thing is bad that everything is bad. There's no denying that people have made a s*** ton of money from online gaming due to advantages. I take it you are aware of the roulette 007 promotion? Over $1000000 was made by Advantage players on that play alone I think the promotion lasted three or four hours only. I actually got a small piece of that gift. Unfortunately, I too was skeptical at the time and I was careful how much money I put in and the rules were different then we assumed therefore I wasn't able to take full advantage of the situation and it cost me a significant amount of money.