Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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September 16th, 2019 at 4:02:09 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

yes, that is one way to look at it

but there is another way to look at it - the gambler is paying a tax for the chance to double his money

if you have $1K and you want to double it so you have $2K if you put your $1K bet on Player at baccarat the tax on the bet (expected dollar loss) is $12.40

what chance does a person have to double his money in 20 seconds if he doesn't do something like this?...........................there is no other way to do it that I know about

but the vast majority of gamblers are not coldly logical like this - most are driven by a compulsion and are generally foggy about what they're doing



Yeah, I think addictions of all types are driven by the highs and lows. The exhilaration of being miserable, then being euphoric. Maybe because in our 21st century 1st world lives, everything is too easy.

I experience this as a +ev gambler. Getting beat up all night, then getting all back feels good. When you're running good, it feels good to dream on stacking it up to the moon.

However, I'm not a gambler by nature so, on the whole, I don't like this process. If I could just get a check for my ev everyday I would take it.

I also think -ev gamblers are very often into losing. There are a lot of theories on this. Some report feeling "clean" after they lose. Maye they feel like they deserve to lose, or don't deserve to have money.

A lot of them seem to be really into the idea that they are fated to have bad luck. I think all or most of us have some version of this. Trying your very best to achieve something in fair circumstances and failing because you weren't good enough is very hard to cope with. So there are a lot of responses. One is to never try, and so you can leave open the possibility that you would have succeeded. Another is to cling to real or percieved unfairnesses.

I think a lot of people enter and stay in the world of -ev gambling for this reason. They are destined to lose and they find this liberating. It can never be their fault. Again, I have spent 1000s of hours listening to these people talk to each other and this is a favorite subject of many: how they had a bad beat, how the casino is crooked, how they can never seem to win, etc. Basically, how they always lose but it's never really their fault.

Having worked in a casino, regular gamblers are about as screwed up a group of people as exists.
unJon
unJon 
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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Rigondeaux
September 16th, 2019 at 4:08:58 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

If an arcade gave you the option of playing the same game for a quarter or a dollar, nobody would pick the dollar.

This quote is amazing. Thanks.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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September 16th, 2019 at 4:16:30 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Nobody I know wants to play Pai Gow or Baccarat with me, so there's at least one service that casinos provide. And I can look at naked women for free.



People with high amounts of discretionary income would, especially if it involved greater benefits than playing at the quarter level.



no they wouldn't. You're telling me if you could play Donkey Kong for a quarter or a dollar on the same machine in the same venue, rich people would choose the dollar? No way.

If there were greater benefits... there are no greater benifits to playing gambling games for more money, outside of gambling for more money. You are saying that you just want to play the game itself. In that case, you'd want to play as cheaply as possible.


Nobody wants to play PG or bac with you because the point of those games is gambling. People who like to play bridge, D&D, board games, magic, Call of Duty, etc. etc. can all easily find partners.

There isn't some unique property that just happens to apply to every casino game, where nobody wants to play it except for money. The point of the games is gambling. People go to casinos to gamble. They might enjoy the games too, but that is secondary 99% of the time.

Plus... look, you are saying people like to play slots or PGP or whatever SO SO SOOOOOO much that they are willining to lose 1000s of dollars on them just for the joy of the game, when they could play bridge or facebook slots, or checkers online, or words with friends, or any one of a million other games for free. But, at the same time, nobody is willing to play the casino games for free. So you just have to go pay a ton of money to play them.

That don't make no sense.
kubikulann
kubikulann
Joined: Jun 28, 2011
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September 16th, 2019 at 4:21:38 PM permalink
The thread derailed.

Nobody seems to have something to say about the idea that Labouchère or d’Alembert or other systems are in fact designed to provide a stopping rule.
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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September 16th, 2019 at 4:29:44 PM permalink
Quote: kubikulann

The thread derailed.

Nobody seems to have something to say about the idea that Labouchère or d’Alembert or other systems are in fact designed to provide a stopping rule.



But when you start again are you are a guaranteed winner?

#stopwhenyouareahead
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 16th, 2019 at 4:39:46 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux



I think a lot of people enter and stay in the world of -ev gambling for this reason. They are destined to lose and they find this liberating.



A friend of mine called it 'cathartic'.
Yeah, right. He was a chaser, down
$300 on the slots, he'd get $700
more on credit cards from the ATM
to get the $300 back. I quit going with
him because he wouldn't leave till
he couldn't get any more money.
Sick stuff.

He finally quit when he retired and
his wife found the CC invoices and
saw he'd spent $6000 in 3 months.
She told him at that rate on his
retirement income they would lose
their house. So he quit going.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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September 16th, 2019 at 5:01:34 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

A friend of mine called it 'cathartic'.
Yeah, right. He was a chaser, down
$300 on the slots, he'd get $700
more on credit cards from the ATM
to get the $300 back. I quit going with
him because he wouldn't leave till
he couldn't get any more money.
Sick stuff.

He finally quit when he retired and
his wife found the CC invoices and
saw he'd spent $6000 in 3 months.
She told him at that rate on his
retirement income they would lose
their house. So he quit going.



I call Bull Shit. Someone as degenerate as him would never quit down only $6000.

Either they had their house paid off at that point as most people who fell for the 30 year mortgage scam did, or he was a lifelong sucker/ degenerate.

So did the wife sign off on multiple refinance deals, knowing he was a piece of shit?

Otherwise he was a good guy paying every month for years and now fell to the gambling “bug” late in life.

In any legitimate situation she knew he was a degenerate POS and she accepted it or they F’ed up in life to a point where 6K mattered. Either way, this story makes no sense.
sodawater
sodawater
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unJonAxelWolf
September 16th, 2019 at 6:22:49 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

All of those betting systems work in theory, but casinos have maximum limits and people have maximum bankrolls. That's what's keeping them from working in the real world.



Even with infinite bankroll and infinite table limits, all betting systems on negative games of independent trials are still -EV even in theory. Of course, in practice, with infinite limits and infinite credit, you could devise a system with an arbitrarily small probability of ever booking a loss in a lifetime of gambling. However, given infinite funds there would be far better investment opportunities --- disregarding the idea that with infinite funds any win you book doesn't increase your bankroll.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 16th, 2019 at 8:13:28 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

I call Bull Shit. Someone as degenerate as him would never quit down only $6000.



That was just the previous 3 months, he
was down far more than that for previous
year. Degenerate, hardly. Genius IQ, very
successful business owner. They had a
huge house that still had 10 years of
payments when he retired. He realized
he was playing like he still had the big
income, so he just quit going. He really
was only tempted when he was in a
casino.

He had an impulsive behavior problem.
If he bought a 2 pound box of chocolates,
he'd eat the whole box in one sitting. Really
smart guy, but like many geniuses he had
a lot of quirks.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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September 16th, 2019 at 8:41:46 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

I call Bull Shit.



Warning -- profanity.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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