Doubling for somebody else.
Let's say if you are playing blackjack with some friends. And your friend bets his last 100 dollars. And, gets dealt 11, and let's say the dealer has a 3. If your friend can't afford to double can you give him a 100 dollar chip and agree to split the winnings if he wins (which is likley)?
Is this ever a profitable move? Covering a double or split for somebody you know when a win is likley and they either can't afford to double or are being super conservative with their chips?
Quote: GandlerIs it ever profitable to double for somebody else?
Let's say if you are playing blackjack with some friends. And your friend bets his last 100 dollars. And, gets dealt 11, and let's say the dealer has a 3. If your friend can't afford to double can you give him a 100 dollar chip and agree to split the winnings if he wins (which is likley)?
Is this ever a profitable move? Covering a double or split for somebody you know when a win is likley and they either can't afford to double or are being super conservative with their chips?
The mathematician and statistician can give you the appropriate payout split formula. However, from the human perspective, it is good to give the person that generously allows you to double down a token of appreciation via some amount of tip. The reason for this is that in a double down situation, that player voluntarily FORFEITS the opportunity to take the second, third, fourth... cards if required. If your friend or other player is kind enough to make such sacrifice, then a token of appreciation via some amount of tip is a fair compensation for their kindness.
Quote: 777The mathematician and statistician can give you the appropriate payout split formula. However, from the human perspective, it is good to give the person that generously allows you to double down a token of appreciation via some amount of tip. The reason for this is that in a double down situation, that player voluntarily FORFEITS the opportunity to take the second, third, fourth... cards if required. If your friend or other player is kind enough to make such sacrifice, then a token of appreciation via some amount of tip is a fair compensation for their kindness.
What about this.
Let's say my friend had an 11 vs a Dealer 3. He had a 100 dollar bet down. I give him a double down bet, and agree to split it 50/50 if It wins. Would splitting it that much take too large a toll out of the bet to make it worth it? (So to clarify if the bet of 200 [after double down] wins, I take 150, which is my original 100 plus 50, and he takes 250). Or would that be too generous to make it not even worth it?
Quote: GandlerWhat about this.
Let's say my friend had an 11 vs a Dealer 3. He had a 100 dollar bet down. I give him a double down bet, and agree to split it 50/50 if It wins. Would splitting it that much take too large a toll out of the bet to make it worth it? (So to clarify if the bet of 200 [after double down] wins, I take 150, which is my original 100 plus 50, and he takes 250). Or would that be too generous to make it not even worth it?
I think splitting 50-50 the winning portion of your bet is VERY generous.
Edited with Additional comment:
(I encountered many instances of a player allowed ANOTHER player to double down in 9 vs. dealer 6 situation, and I always advised the player with the hand of 9 don't allow another player to double down for him because a hit of 2 could give him a second chance of taking another card to improve his hand...)
Quote: GandlerWhat about this.
Let's say my friend had an 11 vs a Dealer 3. He had a 100 dollar bet down. I give him a double down bet, and agree to split it 50/50 if It wins. Would splitting it that much take too large a toll out of the bet to make it worth it? (So to clarify if the bet of 200 [after double down] wins, I take 150, which is my original 100 plus 50, and he takes 250). Or would that be too generous to make it not even worth it?
Wizardofodds.com has all the information required to answer this question. Do the work and then report back to this thread with your findings.
Why do I feel like any responses in here will be immediately reported back to CET?Quote: sabreQuote: GandlerWhat about this.
Let's say my friend had an 11 vs a Dealer 3. He had a 100 dollar bet down. I give him a double down bet, and agree to split it 50/50 if It wins. Would splitting it that much take too large a toll out of the bet to make it worth it? (So to clarify if the bet of 200 [after double down] wins, I take 150, which is my original 100 plus 50, and he takes 250). Or would that be too generous to make it not even worth it?
Wizardofodds.com has all the information required to answer this question. Do the work and then report back to this thread with your findings.
Quote: Romes
Why do I feel like any responses in here will be immediately reported back to CET?
Because you are a paranoid AP who thinks that anyone who has a different opinion than you is contracted by whatever respective casino is in the discussion....
Quote: GandlerBecause you are a paranoid AP who thinks that anyone who has a different opinion than you is contracted by whatever respective casino is in the discussion....
Just because he is paranoid does not mean someone in security is not after him.
Quote: redjohnJust because he is paranoid does not mean someone in security is not after him.
If you think that while in a casino it's probably true.
If you think that casinos hire contractos to follow APs online and debate them in random arguments, then that is just crazy and paranoid.
It was mostly a joke because in the past you've repeatedly defended CET with a lot of their complete bonehead decisions... be it games/odds/or actions taken against AP's.Quote: GandlerIf you think that while in a casino it's probably true.
If you think that casinos hire contractos to follow APs online and debate them in random arguments, then that is just crazy and paranoid.
Quote: Gandler
If you think that casinos hire contractos to follow APs online and debate them in random arguments, then that is just crazy and paranoid.
We KNOW that casinos hire contractors as 'counter catchers' often sharing an individual or teams with other nearby (unrelated) casinos.
We also KNOW that most of these message boards are frequented by casino employees and personnel, whether on their own time and dime or not. Some are open about it, others are not.
So putting those two together isn't all that much a stretch in my mind.
We also KNOW that several of the database organizations, like OSN monitor a number of different AP related websites, along with social media.
Quote: kewljWe KNOW that casinos hire contractors as 'counter catchers' often sharing an individual or teams with other nearby (unrelated) casinos.
We also KNOW that most of these message boards are frequented by casino employees and personnel, whether on their own time and dime or not. Some are open about it, others are not.
So putting those two together isn't all that much a stretch in my mind.
We also KNOW that several of the database organizations, like OSN monitor a number of different AP related websites, along with social media.
I doubt a casino spy would get into a vague politcal debate overy a random lawsuit. That would just blow their cover.
Plus I have always, been totally open about what I do, so the couple people on here who continiously say I work for CET is absurd, especilly considering CET casinos are my least favorite for comps, policy and other reasons.
But yes, I reserve a right to side with them on individual ideological issues if I feel that they were in the right.
No one's saying that's not 100% your right. It's also within my right after seeing you side with them on some pretty ridiculous topics to assume/believe/whatever that you are affiliated with CET.Quote: Gandler...But yes, I reserve a right to side with them on individual ideological issues if I feel that they were in the right.
Quote: RomesNo one's saying that's not 100% your right. It's also within my right after seeing you side with them on some pretty ridiculous topics to assume/believe/whatever that you are affiliated with CET.
I'm pretty sure you are referring to the AC Harrah's secuirty confrontation. On which my opinion has not changed, in the video clips I have seen, security seemed to do the right thing. I know the case is still under way so a lot more video and testimony has yet to be seen by the public. But for now my opinion will not change.
I'm not sure what other topics I have sided with CET on?
Quote: GandlerI'm pretty sure you are referring to the AC Harrah's secuirty confrontation. On which my opinion has not changed, in the video clips I have seen, security seemed to do the right thing. I know the case is still under way so a lot more video and testimony has yet to be seen by the public. But for now my opinion will not change.
If I recall, at the time that we were discussing this case and you were so strongly defending Harrah, you claimed to have no connection or allegiance to CET. :/
Quote: kewljIf I recall, at the time that we were discussing this case and you were so strongly defending Harrah, you claimed to have no connection or allegiance to CET. :/
Yes, all of that is true.
I was defending Harrah's, and I have no allegiance or association with CET, I refuse to even gamble in their casinos. But on that issue from the limited evidence we have seen, I think they were in the right.
Quote: GandlerYes, all of that is true.
I was defending Harrah's, and I have no allegiance or association with CET, I refuse to even gamble in their casinos. But on that issue from the limited evidence we have seen, I think they were in the right.
I am not going to re-fight this battle, right now. We will find out if they were in the right soon enough.
BTW, my prediction at the time was that there would be a settlement before a verdict. I still believe that will occur.
Quote: kewljI am not going to re-fight this battle, right now. We will find out if they were in the right soon enough.
BTW, my prediction at the time was that there would be a settlement before a verdict. I still believe that will occur.
Ok, the case aside even if I turn out to be wrong (though a settlement doesn't mean I am wrong, it just means that they are tired of fighting the court battle, or don't want the publicity, many companies settle even if they were in the right because they don't want a long drawn out case and the inevitable publicity), but even If some big revelation comes out that security acted inappropriately, I defended CET on what I saw at the time, so these constant allegations that I am some CET spy is absurd.
I mean my name, employers, and even a full profile picture are all available of me on this site, so anyone can easily find out who I am if they wanted to stalk me............ I am literally the most transparent person on this site (not counting the staff).
Quote: kewljWe KNOW that casinos hire contractors as 'counter catchers' often sharing an individual or teams with other nearby (unrelated) casinos.
We also KNOW that most of these message boards are frequented by casino employees and personnel, whether on their own time and dime or not. Some are open about it, others are not.
So putting those two together isn't all that much a stretch in my mind.
We also KNOW that several of the database organizations, like OSN monitor a number of different AP related websites, along with social media.
I've been fairly open about what I do in the casino industry, as well as what resources are available to my department in regards to potential threats to the profits of the company.
In my experience, no venue like a message board has ever been used or even considered as a tool to observe, track, or otherwise be used to follow or gather information like whats being discussed here.
In the past, some Facebook information has been looked at, but even then, nothing is usually that helpful. Most of what is potentially of any use, is what happens in the actual building. Other than that, we have our gaming information network that we use.
Quote: DodsferdI've been fairly open about what I do in the casino industry, as well as what resources are available to my department in regards to potential threats to the profits of the company.
In my experience, no venue like a message board has ever been used or even considered as a tool to observe, track, or otherwise be used to follow or gather information like whats being discussed here.
In the past, some Facebook information has been looked at, but even then, nothing is usually that helpful. Most of what is potentially of any use, is what happens in the actual building. Other than that, we have our gaming information network that we use.
I've seen this and other blackjack sites pulled up by pit bosses many times. It wasn't done to spy, but rather when a strategy question arose. Not everyone knows perfect basic strategy and that includes pit bosses. My point is that they are very familiar with these sites.
Quote: 1BBI've seen this and other blackjack sites pulled up by pit bosses many times. It wasn't done to spy, but rather when a strategy question arose. Not everyone knows perfect basic strategy and that includes pit bosses. My point is that they are very familiar with these sites.
Understandable, and I don't doubt it at all. I was coming from an investigation aspect from Surveillance. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a large portion of the Table Pit don't know some of the finer aspects of basic strategy. Based on my workings with some of the staff in the places I've worked, I know that there's very much so a distinction between those who work for the passion of the industry, and those looking to collect a paycheque.
