odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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May 30th, 2018 at 1:18:43 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

How few 7's do you think you could roll out of say 1000 rolls? Do you think you can hold your sevens down to 140 or less?

Babs, answer the same question!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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May 30th, 2018 at 1:19:20 PM permalink
Here we go (again)...



ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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May 30th, 2018 at 2:05:11 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Babs, answer the same question!



My answer is, I don't know.

My very short term positive results can easily be written off to variance.

I don't play enough to have long-term results.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MisterMan
MisterMan
Joined: May 16, 2018
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:03:53 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Welcome to the forum. I am a doubter that setting the dice changes the random outcomes that you would expect from rolling them down a craps table towards that wall with fancy pyramids. I have made a 'challenge' here a few years back that a member who made claims like you could not roll fewer 7's than would be expected by a random tosser like myself. I won the challenge.

How few 7's do you think you could roll out of say 1000 rolls? Do you think you can hold your sevens down to 140 or less?



Let me know when you have a table set up and I'll come roll with you while we tabulate some results.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:09:24 PM permalink
Quote: MisterMan

Let me know when you have a table set up and I'll come roll with you while we tabulate some results.

If there's enough money in the challenge I can set up a private table here in LV.

Anyone who has this ability should be rolling in money. A 2k ++ challenge shouldn't mean a thing.

You can invite WMW to the party for a challenge as well.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MisterMan
MisterMan
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:25:24 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

If there's enough money in the challenge I can set up a private table here in LV.

Anyone who has this ability should be rolling in money. A 2k ++ challenge shouldn't mean a thing.

You can invite WMW to the party for a challenge as well.



It's a challenge with one's self, so it doesn't make much sense to have money on the line.

And if you're trying to completely twist this into something beyond anything that has been said thus far, then count me out. I'm certainly no highly skilled dice controller by any means. It's just simple fact of matter that dice setting will reduce your 7 hits. And all my concern is to reduce my chances of honeymooning, so that my betting system remains profitable a higher percentage of times.
RS
RS
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:35:53 PM permalink
Quote: MisterMan

Says a guy who regurgitates things he has read and won't pick the dice up himself to record results and know for himself.

That's the kick I always get out of this constant argument about dice setting. People love to talk crap(pun intended), but won't do the very simple leg work to just prove whether it works or not. Throw 1000 rolls of just grabbing and flinging the dice and record results. Then do a dice set and throw another 1000 rolls and compare results. When you're getting 7 come up far less times while setting, that's a huge advantage to you when you have a betting system to play around that. And it instantly shuts down the argument that setting doesn't work. Unless you're hung up on some idea that dice setting is to hit specific numbers, which no dice setter/controller has ever claimed.

But you're half right. The way to win isn't really based on setting. It is based on a risk reducing betting system. Setting dice is just going to get your win percentages up when you combine it with a good betting system.

Speaking of win percentages, that is what the mathematicians fallacy is. "Eventually the HE will win, so systems don't work". Using a betting system is no different than trading in the stock market. There doesn't seem to be any argument that trading stocks using certain strategies or systems to end the year with a net positive return, is legitimate. Despite the fact that no successful trader ever wins 100% of the trades they make. Gambling is no different. If you have a system that creates profit 80% of the time, then the system works. The problem is most people don't have the self control to stick to the system and accept a losing day as part of the process. If you're going to chase losses on a bad day, then you're not following the system. It doesn't mean the system doesn't work. It's simple math that if you cap your losses at 1000$ a day, and cap your wins at 500$ a day. Then an 80% win percentage nets you an average of 2000$ every 10 days. Was the HE of the game manipulated? No. Did the system win every time? No. Was there a positive cash flow? YES. So the theoretical HE is irrelevant as far as determining if a system works or not.

Anyway, do whatever you please. I have zero to gain by sharing my information. I don't teach setting, I don't sell any systems, I don't have any website I'm trying to drive traffic to. So I have zero reasons to BS about this either.


This is why I don't believe any of this "dice setting" stuff. You started off on the right track -- pick a set, make a bunch of tosses, record results. Then do it again, again, and again. This would be the proper way to practice and confirm* whether dice setting works or doesn't work.

Then that all went to waste when you started talking about using a betting system. Why would you use a betting system? If you can alter the dice probabilities enough to gain an advantage, you shouldn't be using a betting system.

Questions:

- Have you done what you mentioned above, where you do thousands of rolls and record the outcomes?

- If so, how many rolls do you have recorded? Over those recorded rolls, what percentage are 2's, 3's, 4's...10's, 11's, and 12's (each)?
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:43:38 PM permalink
Quote: MisterMan

That's the kick I always get out of this constant argument about dice setting. People love to talk crap(pun intended), but won't do the very simple leg work to just prove whether it works or not. Throw 1000 rolls of just grabbing and flinging the dice and record results. Then do a dice set and throw another 1000 rolls and compare results. When you're getting 7 come up far less times while setting, that's a huge advantage to you when you have a betting system to play around that. And it instantly shuts down the argument that setting doesn't work.



Both you and I have thrown the dice thousands of times, in all manners and styles. Yet neither one of us is able to change how frequently we roll a seven at a craps table. Those facts should instantly shut down your argument that setting does work.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:43:43 PM permalink
Quote: MisterMan



I'm certainly no highly skilled dice controller by any means.

That's because there is no such thing as a DC/DI






Quote: MisterMan

It's just simple fact of matter that dice setting will reduce your 7 hits.



No, it won't
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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May 30th, 2018 at 3:57:08 PM permalink
Quote: MisterMan

Let me know when you have a table set up and I'll come roll with you while we tabulate some results.



Thank you for the quick polite offer. I live around Buffalo, NY, and although you haven't mentioned where you live, I doubt it is nearby. If you are in Vegas, I am not sure when I'll next be out there. If you are near me, or plan on visiting Niagara Falls this summer, let me know!

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