WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
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April 15th, 2018 at 7:14:54 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

*re-reads post, this time "correctly"*

My question is still valid, and points out the inherent inconsistency in your post.

If the best way to play is hit and run, why would you ever play otherwise?

If you're with friends one would think the friendly thing to do would be to persuade them to also play hit and run instead of hanging out there for many hours at a time playing incorrectly.



No inconsistencies. You are making assumptions and coming to you own conclusions. Just because I consider the best way to play craps by hitting and running, with great success I may add, it doesn't mean that I consider the other way of playing, which I described, is a bad way. If friends are hanging out at the tables and putting time in, sometimes I'll do that for the group camaraderie . It may be too complicated for you to understand, but it is fluid.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
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April 15th, 2018 at 7:21:29 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

What bearing has horse hydration upon the matter at hand?

I point out some BS and you channel your inner Mr. Ed?



Idiot... I mean Idiom! Did I say idiot? Sorry, I mean Its an idiom... yes, thats the word, Idiom. The whole lead the horse to water thing a gig is a figure of speech, silly. It is called an idiom. It wasnt meant to be taken literally. Im sorry I didnt clarify that for you. There are tons of websites that can explain it better if you want to read up on it and edumacate yourself on the subject matter. Idiom.. 3 syllables and pronounced like id -E -um.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
MisterMan
MisterMan
Joined: May 16, 2018
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May 16th, 2018 at 2:33:25 PM permalink
I find it interesting that so many people recommend the P/L and odds system. Unless you're running a bet hedging system for your odds bet, that is a long term losing play, unless you're lucky enough to step up to the table right when a hot roller gets going. People are WAY more likely to 7 out before hitting the point, and hitting multiple points in a roll is even less likely. So if a shooter only hits one point before 7 out, then you're basically even. And you have no way to account for honeymoons which leave you negative. You're only hope is to stay alive long enough for a hot shooter to come in. However, it is a great system to make your money last longer and increase play time if you're just there to enjoy the atmosphere. Sometimes you can get lucky and make a few bucks.

If you want to profit consistently, then you better practice rolling and get a fairly consistent toss down. Doesn't matter if you roll well or not, it just needs to be consistent. Then you can adjust your dice set to account for your roll.

But dice setting aside, you need to reduce your risk exposure. Most consistent system if you're going to bet on other rollers, is to............
-Minimum on P/L
-Wait for shooter to establish point and then bet every box number(starting bet needs to be comfortable for your bankroll, and low enough to hedge 3 times and not hit table limit) Personally I start at 162$ across. 25$ on 4,5,9,10. And 30$ on 6,8. 2$ for the juice
-Let shooter hit one number and then turn your bets off.
-Wait and repeat on next shooter
-In the event of a honeymoon, your next bet is double. So it's 325$ across. HOWEVER, honeymoons tend to come in groups. Tables just tend to go cold. So to avoid getting sucked into a bet hedge on a cold table, I sit out for one shooter after a honeymoon. Frequently I have seen 4 concurring honeymoons in a row, so the sit out rule has saved me a number of times from having a negative day.
-Once a new shooter establishes a point number and hits at least one box number thereafter, I continue betting with the next shooter.
-With 325$ across, take the first box number hit and press every box number.
-The 2nd box number hit puts you almost back to even from your 162$ loss on the honeymoon.
-If another honeymoon hits, rinse and repeat with a 650$ across bet. Total of 1300$ to play out the system if you get caught on a 3rd honeymoon or 2 and out.
-To cut risk even farther, if the first roll after establishing a point is a 2,3,11,12. Just turn bets off and wait for next shooter. Most shooters can hit 2-3 rolls before 7 out.


Feel free to flame away. If anyone else is doing this for a living and has a better system, I'd love to hear it.
mainframe
mainframe
Joined: Feb 19, 2015
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May 29th, 2018 at 1:10:55 PM permalink
Quote: Anon

most of us know systems lose in the long run but i am curious which craps system have you used that lasted you the longest before failure?????? please include strategy and money management if you can ....



Craps "systems"= systematic series of wagers plus associated money management is not necessarily a way to find a "sure winner" but rather a way to generate interesting sets of results that hopefully will yield a profit (if the variance gods are on your side while you have money at stake).
I have a few different sets of "systems" that I enjoy using, under various specific sets of circumstances.

DP4/10 with lay plus Hard4/10 hedge bet.
Begins when- I put one or more units on the DP line, survive any comeout 7s/11s and the point number happens to be a 4 or 10.
If this happens, I will lay the maximum "odds" allowed by the house rules and then place a hard 4 or hard 10 that is proportional to my combined DP and lay wager. For example, If I have a $10DP with $ 0 odds (on a 3x4x5x table), I will wager $6 on the hard 4 or hard 10. You can still lose everything if a 4 or 10 comes easy. But its a nice grind waiting for the result, with a very modest chance of ruin (ruin=all wagers lost on hand)

Alternatiing iron cross when point is a 5
Begins when- I put one or more units on passline, and the point number established happens to be a 5. If this is the case, I add 6/8 place bets that exceed the passline wager by one unit. Then, every other throw, I put make a table minimum wager on a field number. Also, if the 6 or 8 place bet hits, I take that one place bet down one unit, down to table min (regression). I end up having a table min 6 and 8 and I continue to wager the field every other throw until the passline bet is resolved. there is still a chance of ruin here, esp with a PSO.
klimate10
klimate10
Joined: Feb 6, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
AxelWolfbeachbumbabs
May 29th, 2018 at 9:37:44 PM permalink
Bet table minimum pass line bet, no more than $10, but $5 if possible.

Then max odds. Unless Iím killing time, I refuse to play seriously for less than 100x odds.

Then one come bet with max odds, to go with the pass line bet.

Iím never shy about asking for comps. Iím nice and polite, but I make clear what I want.

All systems can not overcome the HE. Donít ever pay anyone who claims to have a craps system. If a person claims to have a winning craps system, they are either a liar or delusional.
MisterMan
MisterMan
Joined: May 16, 2018
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May 30th, 2018 at 7:17:23 AM permalink
Quote: klimate10


All systems can not overcome the HE. Donít ever pay anyone who claims to have a craps system. If a person claims to have a winning craps system, they are either a liar or delusional.



A system is not designed to overcome HE. And anyone that thinks the point of a system is to play it 24/7 with no breaks until the HE brakes you, is delusional themselves.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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May 30th, 2018 at 7:22:01 AM permalink
Quote: MisterMan

A system is not designed to overcome HE. And anyone that thinks the point of a system is to play it 24/7 with no breaks until the HE brakes you, is delusional themselves.



Says a guy that thinks practicing rolling makes a difference.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
MisterMan
MisterMan
Joined: May 16, 2018
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May 30th, 2018 at 7:57:30 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Says a guy that thinks practicing rolling makes a difference.


ZCore13



Says a guy who regurgitates things he has read and won't pick the dice up himself to record results and know for himself.

That's the kick I always get out of this constant argument about dice setting. People love to talk crap(pun intended), but won't do the very simple leg work to just prove whether it works or not. Throw 1000 rolls of just grabbing and flinging the dice and record results. Then do a dice set and throw another 1000 rolls and compare results. When you're getting 7 come up far less times while setting, that's a huge advantage to you when you have a betting system to play around that. And it instantly shuts down the argument that setting doesn't work. Unless you're hung up on some idea that dice setting is to hit specific numbers, which no dice setter/controller has ever claimed.

But you're half right. The way to win isn't really based on setting. It is based on a risk reducing betting system. Setting dice is just going to get your win percentages up when you combine it with a good betting system.

Speaking of win percentages, that is what the mathematicians fallacy is. "Eventually the HE will win, so systems don't work". Using a betting system is no different than trading in the stock market. There doesn't seem to be any argument that trading stocks using certain strategies or systems to end the year with a net positive return, is legitimate. Despite the fact that no successful trader ever wins 100% of the trades they make. Gambling is no different. If you have a system that creates profit 80% of the time, then the system works. The problem is most people don't have the self control to stick to the system and accept a losing day as part of the process. If you're going to chase losses on a bad day, then you're not following the system. It doesn't mean the system doesn't work. It's simple math that if you cap your losses at 1000$ a day, and cap your wins at 500$ a day. Then an 80% win percentage nets you an average of 2000$ every 10 days. Was the HE of the game manipulated? No. Did the system win every time? No. Was there a positive cash flow? YES. So the theoretical HE is irrelevant as far as determining if a system works or not.

Anyway, do whatever you please. I have zero to gain by sharing my information. I don't teach setting, I don't sell any systems, I don't have any website I'm trying to drive traffic to. So I have zero reasons to BS about this either.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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May 30th, 2018 at 9:11:40 AM permalink
Sub-trip report.

Played with Doc and rdw4potus, Harrahs LV, Fri May 18, my 22nd wedding anniversary. (I'm divorced, but the wedding was a party for the ages, so we celebrated it anyway). They can verify this sequence, though Doc wasn't feeling too great that night.

Mostly full $10 3x4x5x table after dinner. I threw 3 hands. First game of 2018 for me.

Always flying V (3s) some sets pointed up, some down. 3 finger grasp, medium loft, left hand, stick left 2. I set quickly, throw within 3-5 seconds of receiving dice, hate waiting for a long routine.

Superstition: while setting V, never show the table a 7.

Betting 2 way ATS, own passline w/2x odds.

Hand 1: Craps, PSO in 4 rolls.

Hand 2: Craps, Made 1 point, 7out. 8 rolls. Stick shoved a 7 at me roll before I went out. Grrr.

Hand 3: Craps start, 7win reset ATS, 27 rolls. Made Small, only needed boxcars for Tall/All. Received much dealer love. Made 3 points. Index finger slipped and lost right die, which fell short of the wall by 2 feet. Left die was a 6 . Right die (foul) was a 1. Crew said, "there are no 'no rolls' at this table". Yeah, I asked, politely. So much for their (and my) A/T bet, sadly.

Small data set. But very typical for me since I started using this set (setting at all). I played Craps 7 times in 2017, maybe 8 times in 2016. Can't get paid on fire bet. Have made ATS 3 times, Small 4 times (now), Tall 2 times in that many sessions, most 1/2 hour to 1 hour. One session was almost 3 hours, but we were drinking premium liquor. Started that night with Small +1 away, couldn't improve it.

So, yeah, I think there is something to setting the dice so that they have to take a maximum dissimilar spin to add up to 7. It's also fun to think so.

And don't shove a 7 at me when I'm trying to tip you!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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May 30th, 2018 at 1:06:08 PM permalink
Quote: MisterMan

When you're getting 7 come up far less times while setting.



Welcome to the forum. I am a doubter that setting the dice changes the random outcomes that you would expect from rolling them down a craps table towards that wall with fancy pyramids. I have made a 'challenge' here a few years back that a member who made claims like you could not roll fewer 7's than would be expected by a random tosser like myself. I won the challenge.

How few 7's do you think you could roll out of say 1000 rolls? Do you think you can hold your sevens down to 140 or less?

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