NicksGamingStuff
NicksGamingStuff
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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June 20th, 2010 at 6:58:53 PM permalink
I have an idea, lets say someone opened a casino that had ideal blackjack (ie, stand on soft 17 3:2 etc..) ideal payouts on craps, lower commission baccarat, 9:6 JOB video poker, etc... All in attempt to have an entire casino stocked with games that had excellent odds in favor of the players. Would this be profitable? All major casinos have stingy rules to help ensure they will have a larger profit in the end, but if a place had the perfect game would it not be more likely to attract more players and thus make more money? If I opened a casino I would have 3:2 single deck BJ with a 90% shuffle point, etc... I would want my customers to have the best odds. What does every one think?
FinsRule
FinsRule
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June 20th, 2010 at 7:05:04 PM permalink
Terrible idea.

Casinos should, and probably do, find the balance of the point where they offer the worst odds, and still get customers to come and gamble.

Why would you want your players to lose less?
NicksGamingStuff
NicksGamingStuff
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June 20th, 2010 at 7:10:01 PM permalink
Because perhaps the fact my casino would have the best odds for them would make more people come to play and put down more money. I know I put the most $$$ into El Cortez because they are practically the only place to offer 3:2 on single deck BJ.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 20th, 2010 at 7:52:54 PM permalink
There's a phrase in business when talking about low profit margins: We'll make it up in volume.

Sounds like you and your casino are taking that kind of thinking.

But the business has to make a profit.
Quote: NicksGamingStuff

... games that had excellent odds in favor of the players.

That sounds like your casino will be operating at a loss.

But seriously, you've got an interesting idea. Yeah, El Cortez is doing some of those things you suggest. But El Cortez is a dump.

If you want a nice, fancy, casino, it costs money. And you're not gonna get the money you need by offering only games with a low house edge.

Are some casinos getting out of control with the terrible rules and bad odds? Sure. But your solution isn't the answer.
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ahiromu
ahiromu
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June 20th, 2010 at 9:00:12 PM permalink
I've thought like you do before, then I saw someone throw down a few thousand at a double-zero roulette wheel and it made me cry :(. I think the problem with this design is that in order for it to work you'd have to have a walmart/southwest business model and that wouldn't work out too well for a casino. You wouldn't be able to put enough into overhead for it to be nice enough (I know that I should go downtown or to casino royale for BJ and ElDo for BJ, but I like throwing my money down at the Bellagio). You'd be better off mixing in a table of "perfect" blackjack and one single-zero $10 min roulette table on the floor rather than having a sea of them. This way the ignorant people would go to the bad games, the smart players would know you have good games, and you'd still make money off of the 6:5 idiots.
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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June 21st, 2010 at 12:28:29 AM permalink
Marvelous idea but remember, you have to pay that electric bill somehow ... and the players can take their winnings and leave: you are the one who has to stay.

The old Binions came close. The M opened up with high aspirations. The trouble is that a casino must of necessity offer the players the short end of the stick. It can be a slim edge but the casino has to have an edge.

There are casinos that offer only 3:2 and never have any 6:5. They thrive. Nothing wrong with offering good odds to the players and good working conditions to your dealers. Its just that the house edge has to be there or you won't be able to keep the doors open.
OneAngryDwarf
OneAngryDwarf
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June 21st, 2010 at 1:53:38 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff


There are casinos that offer only 3:2 and never have any 6:5. They thrive.



Bellagio and El Cortez, to name two that I know of...would that all casinos followed their model.

I guess the OP is similar to pacomartin's idea from awhile back, where people pay a fee to enter the gaming floor in exchange for zero house edge on the games. I don't think this would work for a main casino floor--most people don't care or even know about the house edge anyway, so they'd just end up saying "why should I pay for this when I can get it for free next door?"

But for some sort of high-limit area, it just might work. Perhaps a high-stakes baccarat game with a reduced commission on banker and ties paying 9:1, in exchange for an entry fee.
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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June 21st, 2010 at 3:28:48 AM permalink
Quote: OneAngryDwarf

I guess the OP is similar to pacomartin's idea from awhile back, where people pay a fee to enter the gaming floor in exchange for zero house edge on the games.



I think such a "fee" can be levied in different ways: a flat rate such as card rooms that charge a chair rental rate, a lump-sum admission fee to the Even-Gaming-Area such as has been suggested, a player forbearance of comped beverages. One way would simply be to change the name from Even-Gaming-Area to Almost-Even-Gaming-Area and charge the players the equivalent of an entrance fee by making it a "nearly even" game. In this situation there would be a public perception somewhat akin to a fine levied upon an overdue book. Its still a fine but people who read books tend to realize its going to a good cause. Its sort of a situation wherein a woman goes topless at Sturgiss: she gets cited but she is also told that the fine goes to buy some kid schoolbooks for a year. Perhaps contrast this situation with a gambler's perception of a sweat the money joint bedecked with 6:5 blackjack tables.

The economic realities are that a casino edge has to exist somewhere or else the casino simply will go bankrupt. An admission fee is difficult to levy when an overwhelmingly large percentage of people at the door know that "free" is just next door. Its also hard to levy a fee when customers routine actions are often to wander from casino to casino for variety, excitement, etc.

It used to be that REAL GAMBLERS went to Benny Binions place and were just as proud of it as they were proud of not going to a sweat the money joint and not going to a 6:5 blackjack place. (Ofcourse 6:5 didn't even exist then, but you get the idea). Just as the public perception can be to avoid bad deals there can be a public perception of you go to an Almost-Even-Gaming-Area to be a Real Gambler rather than a Chump. Sort of a psychologically self-imposed fee. The gambler would realize he is paying a modest "fee" to get a good deal and could proudly hold his head high because he knows he is not at a 6:5 place.
rxwine
rxwine
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June 21st, 2010 at 3:46:07 AM permalink
I thought maybe this post was about a "perfect game" which to my mind, is a game that can be beaten by skilled players with lots of practice, but makes money for the casino with the majority of players.
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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June 21st, 2010 at 6:18:41 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

a "perfect game" is a game that can be beaten by skilled players with lots of practice, but makes money for the casino with the majority of players.

Blackjack, video poker and keno, you mean.

Well, only the fools think they can beat keno.

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