Baccarat System Challenge
Both of those test are done on a computer on a random roll. I would like to know are there any challenges on Baccarat system that are Casino based, even if its extended over a week or a month. But something that is played in a real Casino and not on a Computer. If anything is present like that, I would like to take up a challenge on beating the Casino in Baccarat. I have been able to do that on a steady basis and I guess I wanna test it now like a challenge.
Please read before dissecting my post:
1. I know that it might not be mathematically proven, but like I said i have been observing Casino tables for months and have also been playing regularly. I have't yet lost with my system. I have only lost in the Casino while simply playing Baccarat without the system for fun or while playing Craps or diff variation of BJ.
2. I have only played and observed in Ontario - Fallsview and Windsor.
3. I know people would say that why do you wanna take a challenge when you can make money by using a winning system. Like I said I am not looking for winning money but I just wanna take it as a challenge.
4. I wouldn't like to talk about my system, because I wanna keep it to myself AS OF NOW. I am ready for a challenge in a Casino if anyone agrees to sign a non disclosure contract.
Like I said before I am a novice gambler and definitely not experienced like most of the players in the forum.
If you are so sure about the fact that I am Varmenti and that my system doesnt work. Lets have the challenge. I am ready to deposit the money with WOO once we figure out the details of the challenge. Are you ready ?
Quote: Beethoven9thAnother system? By another member who doesn't want to tell us what it is? lol
In my relatively new time on this forum, I believe there is a significant difference here from past threads. novice:
a) is offering to show the system to anyone who wants to see the game in person.
b) is not asking for money to tutor, reveal, or explain his system to anyone who cares; he'd just like to brainstorm it.
c) is only asking for an NDA to protect his thoughts, original or not as they may turn out to be.
d) is NOT willing to put it on a public forum that can be accessed by anyone who happens upon it. His call.
Fair enough, in my opinion. Bac players and/or mathematicians should be able to go for it if they care enough to get up there and look at it. Certainly, in this electronic age of Skype and such, it could be done remotely and privately with pre-agreements if the travel's too expensive.
possible that he had a winning system. Now we have yet another
member wanting the exact same thing at the same casino. What
are the odds of that, it's a small world. Lol
Quote: EvenBobWhat a coincidence. varmenti came here wanting to prove in any way
possible that he had a winning system. Now we have yet another
member wanting the exact same thing at the same casino. What
are the odds of that, it's a small world. Lol
EvenBob - Its a small world for me, coz unlike you i can't play in USA ( I had previously mentioned I am on temporary permit in Canada and hence can't travel to USA). I don't claim to take the challenge only in Fallsview, I am open to it in any Casino in Canada.
Quote: beachbumbabsI am going to say that I don't believe novice and varmenti are the same person...
Quote: novicegamblerIf you are so sure about the fact that I am Varmenti...
I never said that you are/aren't gr8varmenti. I simply said that you have a system and that you don't want to share it. Just like him.
...and so many others who come here with lame baccarat systems.
Quote: Beethoven9thI never said that you are/aren't gr8varmenti. I simply said that you have a system and that you don't want to share it. Just like him.
...and so many others who come here with lame baccarat systems.
Beethoven,
I have seen that accusation made against novice several times in other threads, though I don't recall who made them. So he (and I) are not out of line to misunderstand you here.
Question for you - Would you share a system that you BELIEVE can beat Casino ? And if you read - I said i wouldnt like to share it AS OF NOW
I accused gr8player of being varmenti. But then I stopped after Mission told us to cease & desist.Quote: beachbumbabsI have seen that accusation made against novice several times in other threads, though I don't recall who made them. So he (and I) are not out of line to misunderstand you here.
Nope. I also wouldn't go to a public forum and claim that I had a system that could beat the casino.Quote: novicegamblerQuestion for you - Would you share a system that you BELIEVE can beat Casino ?
Quote: Beethoven9thNope. I also wouldn't go to a public forum and claim that I had a system that could beat the casino.
I am just doing it for fun and the thrill of the challenge not to make money.
Quote: Beethoven9thI accused gr8player of being varmenti. But then I stopped after Mission told us to cease & desist.
I'm just basking in the glow of all the Dickensian coincidences here lately.
It's downright spooky..
Quote: EvenBobI'm just basking in the glow of all the Dickensian coincidences here lately.
It's downright spooky..
Yeah, and now this DMSCR guy comes out of the woodwork again.
In BACCARAT, YES absolutely. It's not some new game where someone has found flaws or something. Unless your system involves some flaw that can be explained. If have a system that involves bet selection or trending on a normal game of Bac, and you can prove you have a winning system you will be considered a gambling genius, a god in the gaming community. You will be rich beyond your wildest dreams, articles will be written about you. Website, Book ,TV,movie, consulting deals will be within your reach. You will be known as the gambler who defies math. You will be the next Edward Thorp who is worth like $800 million.Quote: novicegambler
Question for you - Would you share a system that you BELIEVE can beat Casino ? And if you read - I said i wouldnt like to share it AS OF NOW
Quote: novicegamblerI have read a about WOO's old challenge to test a system (which I guess has been closed) and some other challenge similar to it that is still open.
From what I understand, the Wizard discontinued the offer due to lack of serious challengers. Anytime such an offer exists, there are sure to be legions of individuals attempting to get their ideas tested by the experts for free.
Michael Bluejay has taken up the torch on his Easy Vegas website here.
Both of those test are done on a computer on a random roll. I would like to know are there any challenges on Baccarat system that are Casino based, even if its extended over a week or a month. But something that is played in a real Casino and not on a Computer. If anything is present like that, I would like to take up a challenge on beating the Casino in Baccarat. I have been able to do that on a steady basis and I guess I wanna test it now like a challenge.
If your system is a betting system, computer simulation will be of no consequence; however, Mr. Bluejay has extended the offer to include the alternative of live casino play. The details are in the link provided above.
Please read before dissecting my post:
1. I know that it might not be mathematically proven, but like I said i have been observing Casino tables for months and have also been playing regularly. I have't yet lost with my system. I have only lost in the Casino while simply playing Baccarat without the system for fun or while playing Craps or diff variation of BJ.
I understand your desire to prove to yourself that you have discovered a "sure thing".
Now that you have the desire to have it mathematically proven, please understand that, by accepting the challenge discussed above, you are dealing with experts who will be able to prove if you truly have a winning system, or if you are experiencing unusual variance.
2. I have only played and observed in Ontario - Fallsview and Windsor.
In this instance, the possibility exists that location may not matter; however, keep in mind that the challenge stipulates play in a US casino.
What may be exploitable in another country may not be exploitable in the US. Also, keep in mind that international law can be a very "grey" area (at times a virtual minefield) when it comes to enforcing contracts.
If your personal circumstances do not permit this, you would have to contact Mr. Bluejay to discuss the possibility of specialized terms in the agreement.
3. I know people would say that why do you wanna take a challenge when you can make money by using a winning system. Like I said I am not looking for winning money but I just wanna take it as a challenge.
If you're simply wanting to "challenge yourself", keep in mind the possibilty of hiring someone else to program and test your system. It will be much more economical for all involved.
4. I wouldn't like to talk about my system, because I wanna keep it to myself AS OF NOW. I am ready for a challenge in a Casino if anyone agrees to sign a non disclosure contract.
Understood.
Like I said before I am a novice gambler and definitely not experienced like most of the players in the forum.
Quote: Mission146Every time I see the word, 'Baccarat,' a small part of me dies.
LOL!
MUST...PUT...ON...BLINDERS!
Quote: Mission146Every time I see the word, 'Baccarat,' a small part of me dies.
Ain't that the truth? Yet another person, totally unconnected with
others here who have beaten bac, has come forward with a winning system
that never loses. The Wiz will have to rewrite his whole bac page on
WoO when this is over. One of these totally unconnected people, two
of whom are enjoying suspensions right now, surely has the real thing.
Quote: rob45Quote: novicegamblerI have read a about WOO's old challenge to test a system (which I guess has been closed) and some other challenge similar to it that is still open.
From what I understand, the Wizard discontinued the offer due to lack of serious challengers. Anytime such an offer exists, there are sure to be legions of individuals attempting to get their ideas tested by the experts for free.
Michael Bluejay has taken up the torch on his Easy Vegas website here.
Both of those test are done on a computer on a random roll. I would like to know are there any challenges on Baccarat system that are Casino based, even if its extended over a week or a month. But something that is played in a real Casino and not on a Computer. If anything is present like that, I would like to take up a challenge on beating the Casino in Baccarat. I have been able to do that on a steady basis and I guess I wanna test it now like a challenge.
If your system is a betting system, computer simulation will be of no consequence; however, Mr. Bluejay has extended the offer to include the alternative of live casino play. The details are in the link provided above.
Please read before dissecting my post:
1. I know that it might not be mathematically proven, but like I said i have been observing Casino tables for months and have also been playing regularly. I have't yet lost with my system. I have only lost in the Casino while simply playing Baccarat without the system for fun or while playing Craps or diff variation of BJ.
I understand your desire to prove to yourself that you have discovered a "sure thing".
Now that you have the desire to have it mathematically proven, please understand that, by accepting the challenge discussed above, you are dealing with experts who will be able to prove if you truly have a winning system, or if you are experiencing unusual variance.
2. I have only played and observed in Ontario - Fallsview and Windsor.
In this instance, the possibility exists that location may not matter; however, keep in mind that the challenge stipulates play in a US casino.
What may be exploitable in another country may not be exploitable in the US. Also, keep in mind that international law can be a very "grey" area (at times a virtual minefield) when it comes to enforcing contracts.
If your personal circumstances do not permit this, you would have to contact Mr. Bluejay to discuss the possibility of specialized terms in the agreement.
3. I know people would say that why do you wanna take a challenge when you can make money by using a winning system. Like I said I am not looking for winning money but I just wanna take it as a challenge.
If you're simply wanting to "challenge yourself", keep in mind the possibilty of hiring someone else to program and test your system. It will be much more economical for all involved.
4. I wouldn't like to talk about my system, because I wanna keep it to myself AS OF NOW. I am ready for a challenge in a Casino if anyone agrees to sign a non disclosure contract.
Understood.
Like I said before I am a novice gambler and definitely not experienced like most of the players in the forum.
Thanks for the great reply Rob45.
1. Thats exactly what I want.
2. I do have my lawyer who could take care of the contract. The only issue is if Bluejay agrees to do the challenge in Canada
3. I am Software developer myself (worked for two years in IBM before moving here). I have tested the system myself over 5000 shoes. Like I said even though the stimulation shows a profit, I am myself sceptical about it. The reason I chose/ want a live Casino is because there few things in my system which "I FEEL" works at the casino. I havent played the game long enough to comment a lot abt the system, but based on my observation for last few months, based on my play and the interaction I had with most of the Baccarat player (who says they have been playing for years) I "BELIEVE" it would work
4. Thanks for understanding.
I would be writing to Bluejay right now about the challenge. Hopefully he accepsts the challenge to take place in Canada coz he says "agree to the terms above without any modefications"
Will keep you all posted
Quote: Mission146Every time I see the word, 'Baccarat,' a small part of me dies.
Mission146 - Why do you feel like that ?
Quote: AxelWolfIn BACCARAT, YES absolutely. It's not some new game where someone has found flaws or something. Unless your system involves some flaw that can be explained. If have a system that involves bet selection or trending on a normal game of Bac, and you can prove you have a winning system you will be considered a gambling genius, a god in the gaming community. You will be rich beyond your wildest dreams, articles will be written about you. Website, Book ,TV,movie, consulting deals will be within your reach. You will be known as the gambler who defies math. You will be the next Edward Thorp who is worth like $800 million.
AxelWolf - That definitely sounds very good. I am definitely not even 1% close to/inteligent like Edward Thorp (I didnt know abt him before just googled now). Being a sofwtare developer I have been a freelancer. On multiple occasions I have had my projects taken over by the client without any credit being given to me.
And like I said AS OF NOW I wouldnt like to disclose the system coz of few reasons -
1. I don't want the Casino to close the loopholes.
2. I don't want to be banned from the Casino coz of my play. Note there are only two Casino's near to me in Ontario :(
3. You dont wanna kill the golden goose.
I might disclose the system later on. One thing I guarantee is that I am not in the Casino for money. So IF I win the challenge or IF I the system is proven I will never sell it, I will give it for free when I chose to disclose it
Quote: Mission146Every time I see the word, 'Baccarat,' a small part of me dies.
I'm not sure what is worse, the craps or the baccarat threads.
Definitely baccarat.Quote: WizardI'm not sure what is worse, the craps or the baccarat threads.
At least in the craps threads, both sides have debatable positions. In the bac threads, one side wants to deny basic math! One guy even said something like: "Your math says the casino has the edge, but MY math says I have the edge." WTF????
Quote: novicegamblerOne thing I guarantee is that I am not in the Casino for money. So IF I win the challenge or IF the system is proven I will never sell it, I will give it for free when I chose to disclose it.
Then set up a "challenge" that involves no money. There are lots of prizes that you or I can imagine for the winner, that are not monetary. This is how great mathematicians of the 16th or 17th century operated. They threw challenges at each other, just for the glory. In the 20th, Pal Erdös gave financial rewards, but he was *very* unlike anybody else...
From what you told, am I right to think you are exploiting a default of the casino you're playing at, rather than a betting system valid on any Baccarat table?
Quote: Beethoven9thDefinitely baccarat.
At least in the craps threads, both sides have debatable positions. In the bac threads, one side wants to deny basic math!
I havent been long enough in this forum to dispute you guys, nor do I have the knowledge WOO to challenge his maths.
But I will say something honestly that I don't know why people here in the forum don't like to hear about a system if it doesnt go according to prababilities and and all the maths equations.
I have played my system multiple times and never lost. I have made $1000 during each session of my play. I have been observing and writing down the data for multiple tables everyday and my system HAS NEVER FAILED YET. If this defies maths then so be it. But like I said I am not stupid enough not to understand the imporatance of maths, and I am very much open to show it to people who have doubts about the system.
I have always been open to debates and even in my first thread I was looking for peoples comments to debate and talk.
Quote: novicegambler
3. I know people would say that why do you wanna take a challenge when you can make money by using a winning system. Like I said I am not looking for winning money but I just wanna take it as a challenge.
4. I wouldn't like to talk about my system, because I wanna keep it to myself AS OF NOW. I am ready for a challenge in a Casino if anyone agrees to sign a non disclosure contract.
kubikulan - I had already mentioned that I am not here for money and I am open for a challenge without money if anyone agrees to sign a non disclosure contract.
I had also mentined that I have only played at Fallsview Casino and Windsor Casino and I have never lost at either place. If you could give me a link of a page which gives me the min bet, max bet and the rules of the game (if its different from fallsview/windsor) I can definitely say if its a valid system for ALL tables
Quote: novicegamblerI have played my system multiple times and never lost. I have made $1000 during each session of my play. I have been observing and writing down the data for multiple tables everyday and my system HAS NEVER FAILED YET.
So you honestly don't realize how much this sounds like a "Get rich quick" infomercial? lol
Quote: EvenBobAin't that the truth? Yet another person, totally unconnected with
others here who have beaten bac, has come forward with a winning system
that never loses. The Wiz will have to rewrite his whole bac page on
WoO when this is over. One of these totally unconnected people, two
of whom are enjoying suspensions right now, surely has the real thing.
EvenBob - I am not here to rewrite history of baccarat. I only wanted to share something on a public forum. If everyone feels I shouldnt have I am more than happy to just resign from the forum and not bother you guys with my insensible system.
I hope this clears everyone's doubts that I am not here to fake any system or just bluff.
Chose one person from the forum who is ready to come to Fallsview Casino and who all of you trust. Watch me play for a day. If the person is convinced that it works then just accept that fact graciously on the forum. I will arrange for the stay at the Fallsview Resort. If I lose the challenge I will pay $500 to the Forum and you guys can chose what to do with it.
I have read how the challenges work so yes I am ready to deposit the money to WOO before the person comes here. My only requirement is that I need a word from the WOO that the person coming to watch my play wouldnt disclose my play to anyone and will sign a NDA
Quote: Beethoven9thSo you honestly don't realize how much this sounds like a "Get rich quick" infomercial? lol
Beethoven9th - By God's grace I have enough money to survive my entire life without working for a single day. And like I said I am not here to sell anything, I DONT HAVE TO and I DONT WANT TO
Meaning : Don`t attempt to out smart the shoe
BTW THANKS for this piece advice. Wizard.
My method : Selecting one dominant stick with it, apply the up and pull method , set a Loss limit and an easily attainable win goal. Proper bankroll.
Know when to leave the table.
WASHOO2
PS. Tjhere is NO magic. Nowhere.
BTW, if all you're going to do is base the challenge on whether you win (or lose) during ONE session, then that's lamer than lame.
Quote: WASHOO2Like he Wizars says : Pick one dominant . Ignore the score cards.
Meaning : Don`t attempt to out smart the shoe
BTW THANKS for this piece advice. Wizard.
My method : Selecting one dominant stick with it, apply the up and pull method , set a Loss limit and an easily attainable win goal. Proper bankroll.
Know when to leave the table.
WASHOO2
Washoo2 - I am sorry I didnt understand what you said.
I dont have a loss limit or a target in my system. I play till I feel coz its a boring, systematic and repetitive method which I dont like to play for a long time
Quote: Beethoven9thI just find it curious that you were so interested in gr8varmenti's "winning" baccarat system a couple weeks ago, but today you have your very own "winning" system! lol...
BTW, if all you're going to do is base the challenge on whether you win (or lose) during ONE session, then that's lamer than lame.
I am more than happy if someone wants to see my play for a month. I dont have any issues. I said for a day coz the person has to travel here. I am at the Casino 5 days a week. So anyone is welcome to see me play the system 5 days a week for as long as they want
Quote: Beethoven9thI just find it curious that you were so interested in gr8varmenti's "winning" baccarat system a couple weeks ago, but today you have your very own "winning" system! lol...
I am not even 30 to know it all and I am very inquisitive person, thats is the reason I said I want to see how he wins with his system which I found stupid. ANd if you had read the reason I was more interested is bcoz I have never seen him there at the casino which he claimed he goes everyday
Quote: novicegamblerI am more than happy if someone wants to see my play for a month. I dont have any issues. I said for a day coz the person has to travel here. I am at the Casino 5 days a week. So anyone is welcome to see me play the system 5 days a week for as long as they want
A month? That wouldn't prove anything either. There are guys who have had huge streaks & won more money than you have in your entire gambling career, yet they were no more AP's than the average joe.
If your not in it for the money. Why all the non disclosure stuff?Quote: novicegamblerkubikulan - I had already mentioned that I am not here for money and I am open for a challenge without money if anyone agrees to sign a non disclosure contract.
I have a feeling that this challenge wont happen. From what I seem to remember from that challenge, he wants and hourly compensation for his time that he spends observing live casino play. Are you prepared to pay for his time and costs if your system fails?
Also you mention Loopholes. I don't know what you mean by that. If the casino is doing something like, not properly shuffling cards or there are some kind of markings on the cards, or you have some kind of knowledge that gives you a calculable Mathematical edge, I'm sure you understand that this would not count. People have found ways to beat BAC with extra information that the casinos did not intend to be given.
Your system must be something that deals with trends, bet selection, an advanced strategy, patterns, guessing, feelings, psychic abilities,. counting a proven non countable game or help from aliens.
If you cant get someone to come to Canada. I have a feeling if you were to offer the forum a $500 failure prize Something could be set up with a live cam between you and someone like Mission. If you succeed I am sure you will get the credit and notoriety your looking for.
+1Quote: EdgeLookerIa Fallsview Casino sponsoring all these baccarat system threads? lol
LOL
I know nothing about your system, the key question for me to give a rough idea of the probability of success on any shoe is total bank roll possible to stake versus win goal.
Cos, you see... if I am willing to bet $100,000 to win $1,000, I'm likely to make it 98 times out 100 (depending on the exact game and pay offs). This means I can go on very long streaks without losing my initial stake. Or it could happen quickly.
Hitting a small win goal if you have a big enough initial stake 'at risk' is not too hard to manufacture out of a system. Winning 80% of your sessions is easy enough. It's the ratio of winning to losing that counts.
Quote: Beethoven9thA month? That wouldn't prove anything either. There are guys who have had huge streaks & won more money than you have in your entire gambling career, yet they were no more AP's than the average joe.
Beethoven - Okays so what would it take to prove you it works in a casino ?
Quote: AxelWolfIf your not in it for the money. Why all the non disclosure stuff?
I have a feeling that this challenge wont happen. From what I seem to remember from that challenge, he wants and hourly compensation for his time that he spends observing live casino play. Are you prepared to pay for his time and costs if your system fails?
Also you mention Loopholes. I don't know what you mean by that. If the casino is doing something like, not properly shuffling cards or there are some kind of markings on the cards, or you have some kind of knowledge that gives you a calculable Mathematical edge, I'm sure you understand that this would not count. People have found ways to beat BAC with extra information that the casinos did not intend to be given.
Your system must be something that deals with trends, bet selection, an advanced strategy, patterns, guessing, feelings, psychic abilities,. counting a proven non countable game or help from aliens.
If you cant get someone to come to Canada. I have a feeling if you were to offer the forum a $500 failure prize Something could be set up with a live cam between you and someone like Mission. If you succeed I am sure you will get the credit and notoriety your looking for.
AxelWolf - Like I said I don't want to dsclose the system as of now thats the reason of NDA
If I am not wrong it doesnt mention anything about the hourly compensation, And yes I am prepared to pay for his time and costs IF SYSTEM FAILS
No I am not having an edge based on " not properly shuffling cards or there are some kind of markings on the cards, or you have some kind of knowledge that gives you a calculable Mathematical edge". I am following a simple system which has worked at fallsview and windsor. And its not psychic or anything. Any person who doesnt know how to ad 1+1 can play my system as well. Its just a systematic, repetative, boring kind of system you keep on playing.
Where would the live cam be set ? I am okay with it if its a real time casino environment and not a compuerised and controlled one. I am ready to offer the $500 failure prize
He is probably not the one to ask this question. I think there are many factors depending how your betting. If you play for 3 years str8 at the tables minimums then bet 100k on 1 bet and win that certainly wouldn't prove anything. basically, It will come down to how quickly your winning your average units.Quote: novicegamblerBeethoven - Okays so what would it take to prove you it works in a casino ?
You said you were not in it for the money. Why would you care who knew about it then? Why are you not ready?Quote: novicegamblerAxelWolf - Like I said I don't want to dsclose the system as of now thats the reason of NDA
If I am not wrong it doesnt mention anything about the hourly compensation, And yes I am prepared to pay for his time and costs IF SYSTEM FAILS
No I am not having an edge based on " not properly shuffling cards or there are some kind of markings on the cards, or you have some kind of knowledge that gives you a calculable Mathematical edge". I am following a simple system which has worked at fallsview and windsor. And its not psychic or anything. Any person who doesnt know how to ad 1+1 can play my system as well. Its just a systematic, repetative, boring kind of system you keep on playing.
Where would the live cam be set ? I am okay with it if its a real time casino environment and not a compuerised and controlled one. I am ready to offer the $500 failure prize
Quote: novicegamblerBeethoven - Okays so what would it take to prove you it works in a casino ?
What's the secret sauce a casino adds that a proper simulation doesn't?
