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MauiSunset
MauiSunset
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beachbumbabs
June 13th, 2012 at 5:55:26 AM permalink
When a Roulette player finally realizes that the Odds Table and the Payout Table can't be changed then the only way to "win" at Roulette is to "Understand Random Numbers", and/or to Play with an Advantage, "Advantage Play (AP)", by finding numbers that spin out too frequently and thus should be bet on.

Right.

There are folks who claim they can "read" random numbers like a fortune teller "reads" your hand. Sadly I can't do either.

I don't know of a single case of clairvoyance that is documented - in ANYTHING that has a random probability of happening. This applies to gambling and investing. But maybe there is a case documented? If so I'd love to get a link. (Stocks go up because there is inflation in an economy and some companies do a good job, but no super secret technical indicator that exists. A monkey throwing darts at the WSJ will out perform 80% of the Wizards of Wall street; I remember reading actual studies of monkeys doing just that)


That leaves AP. This seems to be the last bastion for folks to brag they can "beat Roulette" and never have to prove it. How would they prove it since the wheel at a particular Roulette table may have been swapped out for maintenance, like a diamond mark wearing down or chipping off.

Certainly AP doesn't work in online Roulette since there is no wear or tear on the circuit board.

So I ask if anyone has a documented case of anyone being able to demonstrate AP for Roulette in an open casino? I mean where someone demonstrated this ability over and over again to witnesses and the witnesses filed sworn affidavits with a penalty of perjury that could be used in a court of law as evidence of this ability)

Thanks for any input........
FleaStiff
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June 13th, 2012 at 6:22:28 AM permalink
Quote: MauiSunset

A monkey throwing darts at the WSJ will out perform 80% of the Wizards of Wall street; I remember reading actual studies of monkeys doing just that)

That is because such stories get good media play but when the dart-throwing monkeys do poorly, its not quite such a newsworthy item.

>So I ask if anyone has a documented case of anyone being able to demonstrate AP for Roulette in an open casino?
Of course not. Wheels used to be less finely manufactured and wheels used to be less strictly monitored. Also maintenance personnel were allowed to move a table for vacuuming purposes from time to time with no leveling or testing being conducted. Those days are long past!

The "annunciator" or "marquee" or "history display" shows the latest "x" spins but that information is not discarded. Its part of the monitoring situation.

Do people win on weird premonitions sometimes? Sure. Do you have repeats and missing numbers? Of course but often its in the mind of the observer more than anything else. Can you bet on "repeats" Sure? You might even win. Of course you can also bet on a "missing number" being "due" and win on that from time to time.

Random? I don't know if its a random wheel or not, but usually its random enough! Random enough for the casino that can hire all those statisticians and all those computer experts, but apparently its never random enough for someone who wants to sell you his secret super-duper technique for detecting wheel bias.
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 6:40:49 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff


...
>So I ask if anyone has a documented case of anyone being able to demonstrate AP for Roulette in an open casino?
Of course not. Wheels used to be less finely manufactured and wheels used to be less strictly monitored. Also maintenance personnel were allowed to move a table for vacuuming purposes from time to time with no leveling or testing being conducted. Those days are long past!
...



OK, the maintenance folks move a Roulette table for a poker tournament and place it somewhere else. There is a "bubble level" on all regulated Roulette tables, required by the local gaming commission, that I play at and it's part of the compass which is used to detect Roulette balls with a magnetic core. Every time I check that bubble, which is part of my ritual before sitting down at a new table, that bubble is dead center. I ask the dealer where that leveling bubble is and they show me - I have every right to see it; it's no big deal.

I guess the Roulette wheel could have been damaged in transit but every time I see a Roulette table moved the Roulette wheel is removed so that $3,000 wheel isn't hurt.

Maybe at cheap casinos they move the Roulette wheels around and none of the players care if they feel like the table is doing a Titanic but not the places I gamble at....
WongBo
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June 13th, 2012 at 1:16:54 PM permalink
oh dear god, not another AP roulette thread....
do a search and you will find the last flame war on this subject.
mrjjj is the resident expert on AP roulette, perhaps you should speak with him.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 1:44:52 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

oh dear god, not another AP roulette thread....
do a search and you will find the last flame war on this subject.
mrjjj is the resident expert on AP roulette, perhaps you should speak with him.



Mr J has deleted and modified many of my posts on other websites over this topic; so there is no need to debate this with him.

I'm simply asking for any verifiable cases of folks using AP or Reading Random Numbers "beating Roulette". If this could be done then there should be sworn affidavits backing up the claims.

I know there are many scams out there over these topics but I can't find a single case that is documented to be true; just scam after scam.

That's all I'm asking for........
Gabes22
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June 13th, 2012 at 2:00:12 PM permalink
If the numbers are truly random then there is no way to predermine their outcome. Now, there are cases of people finding biases in certain wheels finding that specific numbers come up with enough frequency to overcome the house edge on that particular number or set of numbers, however this takes hours and hours of studying the specific wheels and IMO might raise some suspicion in a casino.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 4:40:26 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

If the numbers are truly random then there is no way to predermine their outcome. Now, there are cases of people finding biases in certain wheels finding that specific numbers come up with enough frequency to overcome the house edge on that particular number or set of numbers, however this takes hours and hours of studying the specific wheels and IMO might raise some suspicion in a casino.



Has any AP player ever demonstrated that wheels are so lopsided that observing 38 spins (American wheel) would give them some kind of edge?

If it takes 1 minute per spin, in Vegas this can be done because of automated chip sorting machines, then that would be just 38 minutes of standing around a table and writing down spins. The pit boss is going to have a chat with you.

Every Roulette player knows that what the Marquee shows is totally inaccurate - spins are posted wrong all the time so actual spins would have to be recorded.

Since there are 38 slots on the wheel and the "Roulette Law of Thirds" points out that 1/3 of those 38 spins won't even show up and 1/3 will be duplicates, triplicates, and quadrupedal occurrences that means another 12 or so spins or 50 spins - about 1 hours worth of Roulette spins.

AP players brag about winning at Roulette but their antics around a Roulette table would result in their removal from the casino.

So has any person or group bought a wheel and table, from the same sources as casinos do, and demonstrated this ability? I sure haven't ever seen this but maybe there is a case of this happening....
mrjjj
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June 13th, 2012 at 4:46:18 PM permalink
Quote: MauiSunset

When a Roulette player finally realizes that the Odds Table and the Payout Table can't be changed then the only way to "win" at Roulette is to "Understand Random Numbers", and/or to Play with an Advantage, "Advantage Play (AP)", by finding numbers that spin out too frequently and thus should be bet on.

Right.

There are folks who claim they can "read" random numbers like a fortune teller "reads" your hand. Sadly I can't do either.

I don't know of a single case of clairvoyance that is documented - in ANYTHING that has a random probability of happening. This applies to gambling and investing. But maybe there is a case documented? If so I'd love to get a link. (Stocks go up because there is inflation in an economy and some companies do a good job, but no super secret technical indicator that exists. A monkey throwing darts at the WSJ will out perform 80% of the Wizards of Wall street; I remember reading actual studies of monkeys doing just that)


That leaves AP. This seems to be the last bastion for folks to brag they can "beat Roulette" and never have to prove it. How would they prove it since the wheel at a particular Roulette table may have been swapped out for maintenance, like a diamond mark wearing down or chipping off.

Certainly AP doesn't work in online Roulette since there is no wear or tear on the circuit board.

So I ask if anyone has a documented case of anyone being able to demonstrate AP for Roulette in an open casino? I mean where someone demonstrated this ability over and over again to witnesses and the witnesses filed sworn affidavits with a penalty of perjury that could be used in a court of law as evidence of this ability)

Thanks for any input........




I brought this subject up before. A couple of my methods rely on playing repeaters and/or numbers that are hitting alot, call it whatever you wish.

Lets PRETEND (a real longshot) that the wheel is a bit bias and out of coincidence, I am betting on a few of those bias numbers. So what?

Why does my PLAN need a TITLE as to WHY I am betting on those numbers? My goal is to leave the casino with a profit REGARDLESS of why/how.

Ken
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 5:19:24 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

I brought this subject up before. A couple of my methods rely on playing repeaters and/or numbers that are hitting alot, call it whatever you wish.

Lets PRETEND (a real longshot) that the wheel is a bit bias and out of coincidence, I am betting on a few of those bias numbers. So what?

Why does my PLAN need a TITLE as to WHY I am betting on those numbers? My goal is to leave the casino with a profit REGARDLESS of why/how.

Ken



My goal is to win the Powerball lottery by any means too.

Big deal......
Keyser
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June 13th, 2012 at 5:37:16 PM permalink
I have two wheels.

Regarding the law of the third.

1. It's nonsense.
2. There is no such law.
3. I believe that nobody would ever mistake Mr. Jjj. for an AP player.
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 8:02:08 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

I have two wheels.

Regarding the law of the third.

1. It's nonsense.
2. There is no such law.
3. I believe that nobody would ever mistake Mr. Jjj. for an AP player.



Well, the law is for real - there is much statistics to prove it. Spin a wheel 38 times and 1/3, or about a dozen numbers will not show up and 1/3 will be duplicates, triplicates, and quadruplicates. But so what?

However, there is nothing you can do with it - it won't help at all in predicting the next number spun.

So if you want to see all 38 numbers appear, the Law of the Third of Random Numbers says you will have to spin more than 38 times, at least 1/3 more.

That's all it says.....
Keyser
Keyser
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June 13th, 2012 at 8:33:34 PM permalink
In short, the law of the third is just another fools folly.
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 8:47:00 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

In short, the law of the third is just another fools folly.



Of course.....
7craps
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June 13th, 2012 at 8:49:42 PM permalink
Quote: MauiSunset

Well, the law is for real - there is much statistics to prove it. Spin a wheel 38 times and 1/3, or about a dozen numbers will not show up and 1/3 will be duplicates, triplicates, and quadruplicates. But so what?

It may be a layman's law, but not a law my any known mathematician.

In 38 spins, the average number of unique numbers hit is about 24.2 (24 or 25)
That means between 13 and 14 that have not hit in 38 spins
(12.67 would be 1/3)

The probability of that is just about 40%.

You can play with the distribution if you like
simulation results

Unique numbers 38 spins 00 wheel
group middle freq freq/100
-----------------------------------------------
14.50 <= x < 15.50 15.00 22 0.00%
15.50 <= x < 16.50 16.00 231 0.00%
16.50 <= x < 17.50 17.00 1815 0.02%
17.50 <= x < 18.50 18.00 11875 0.12%
18.50 <= x < 19.50 19.00 54722 0.55%
19.50 <= x < 20.50 20.00 194436 1.94%
20.50 <= x < 21.50 21.00 522880 5.23%
21.50 <= x < 22.50 22.00 1071966 10.72%
22.50 <= x < 23.50 23.00 1688953 16.89%
23.50 <= x < 24.50 24.00 2048494 20.48%
24.50 <= x < 25.50 25.00 1904317 19.04%
25.50 <= x < 26.50 26.00 1355333 13.55%
26.50 <= x < 27.50 27.00 732259 7.32%
27.50 <= x < 28.50 28.00 298308 2.98%
28.50 <= x < 29.50 29.00 90520 0.91%
29.50 <= x < 30.50 30.00 20202 0.20%
30.50 <= x < 31.50 31.00 3279 0.03%
31.50 <= x < 32.50 32.00 361 0.00%
32.50 <= x < 33.50 33.00 22 0.00%
33.50 <= x < 34.50 34.00 5 0.00%

-----------------------------------------------
grouped data
items: 10,000,000

minimum value: 15.00
first quartile: 23.00
median: 24.00
third quartile: 26.00
maximum value: 34.00

mean value: 24.21
midrange: 24.50

range: 19.00
interquartile range: 3.00
mean abs deviation: 1.54

sample variance (n): 3.71
sample variance (n-1): 3.71
sample std dev (n): 1.93
sample std dev (n-1): 1.93

-----------------------------------------------
cumulative
-----------------------------------------------
14.50 <= x < 15.50 15.00 22 0.00%
15.50 <= x < 16.50 16.00 253 0.00%
16.50 <= x < 17.50 17.00 2068 0.02%
17.50 <= x < 18.50 18.00 13943 0.14%
18.50 <= x < 19.50 19.00 68665 0.69%
19.50 <= x < 20.50 20.00 263101 2.63%
20.50 <= x < 21.50 21.00 785981 7.86%
21.50 <= x < 22.50 22.00 1857947 18.58%
22.50 <= x < 23.50 23.00 3546900 35.47%
23.50 <= x < 24.50 24.00 5595394 55.95%
24.50 <= x < 25.50 25.00 7499711 75.00%
25.50 <= x < 26.50 26.00 8855044 88.55%
26.50 <= x < 27.50 27.00 9587303 95.87%
27.50 <= x < 28.50 28.00 9885611 98.86%
28.50 <= x < 29.50 29.00 9976131 99.76%
29.50 <= x < 30.50 30.00 9996333 99.96%
30.50 <= x < 31.50 31.00 9999612 100.00%
31.50 <= x < 32.50 32.00 9999973 100.00%
32.50 <= x < 33.50 33.00 9999995 100.00%
33.50 <= x < 34.50 34.00 10000000 100.00%

computer results from some R code
yep. 24,25 and 23 unique #s top the top 3
> draw.unique(1:38,38,38)

Prob
u=1 3.531888016e-59
u=2 1.796050273e-46
u=3 1.059174006e-38
u=4 5.183421957e-33
u=5 1.695453233e-28
u=6 9.471698925e-25
u=7 1.493713473e-21
u=8 8.972474438e-19
u=9 2.4885921e-16
u=10 3.63239974e-14
u=11 3.061581311e-12
u=12 1.595200485e-10
u=13 5.409183238e-09
u=14 1.241901364e-07
u=15 1.99122433e-06
u=16 2.284767205e-05
u=17 0.0001912806707
u=18 0.001186529879
u=19 0.005519546762
u=20 0.01943459301
u=21 0.05215229288
u=22 0.1071593392
u=23 0.1690424973
u=24 0.2048643366
u=25 0.1904903213
u=26 0.1354368761
u=27 0.07321147122
u=28 0.02983819925
u=29 0.009063960064
u=30 0.002020712815
u=31 0.0003238875908
u=32 3.630885883e-05
u=33 2.741719853e-06
u=34 1.3225537e-07
u=35 3.767712201e-09
u=36 5.587491563e-11
u=37 3.417426033e-13
u=38 4.86120346e-16


Quote: MauiSunset

So how many spins are needed for all 38 numbers to show up?


Nope27 Blog has a table
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/nope27/blog/
Roulette 00 Wheel "at least 1" number NOT hitting September 26th, 2010 at 11:21:44 am
the link there should be
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/roulette/

This is the coupon collectors problem
average: 160.66 spins
standard deviation: 46.66

part of the distribution
  x    prob[X=x]   prob[X<x]  prob[X>=x]  prob[X<=x]   prob[X>x]

65 0.00002 0.00005 0.99995 0.00007 0.99993
66 0.00003 0.00007 0.99993 0.00009 0.99991
67 0.00004 0.00009 0.99991 0.00013 0.99987
68 0.00005 0.00013 0.99987 0.00018 0.99982
69 0.00006 0.00018 0.99982 0.00024 0.99976
70 0.00008 0.00024 0.99976 0.00032 0.99968
71 0.00010 0.00032 0.99968 0.00042 0.99958
72 0.00013 0.00042 0.99958 0.00055 0.99945
73 0.00016 0.00055 0.99945 0.00071 0.99929
74 0.00019 0.00071 0.99929 0.00090 0.99910
75 0.00024 0.00090 0.99910 0.00114 0.99886
76 0.00029 0.00114 0.99886 0.00143 0.99857
77 0.00034 0.00143 0.99857 0.00177 0.99823
78 0.00041 0.00177 0.99823 0.00218 0.99782
79 0.00048 0.00218 0.99782 0.00266 0.99734
80 0.00056 0.00266 0.99734 0.00322 0.99678
81 0.00065 0.00322 0.99678 0.00387 0.99613
82 0.00075 0.00387 0.99613 0.00462 0.99538
83 0.00086 0.00462 0.99538 0.00548 0.99452
84 0.00098 0.00548 0.99452 0.00647 0.99353
85 0.00111 0.00647 0.99353 0.00758 0.99242
86 0.00125 0.00758 0.99242 0.00883 0.99117
87 0.00141 0.00883 0.99117 0.01024 0.98976
88 0.00157 0.01024 0.98976 0.01181 0.98819
89 0.00174 0.01181 0.98819 0.01355 0.98645
90 0.00192 0.01355 0.98645 0.01547 0.98453
91 0.00211 0.01547 0.98453 0.01759 0.98241
92 0.00232 0.01759 0.98241 0.01990 0.98010
93 0.00253 0.01990 0.98010 0.02243 0.97757
94 0.00274 0.02243 0.97757 0.02517 0.97483
95 0.00297 0.02517 0.97483 0.02814 0.97186
96 0.00320 0.02814 0.97186 0.03135 0.96865
97 0.00344 0.03135 0.96865 0.03479 0.96521
98 0.00369 0.03479 0.96521 0.03848 0.96152
99 0.00394 0.03848 0.96152 0.04241 0.95759
100 0.00419 0.04241 0.95759 0.04660 0.95340
101 0.00445 0.04660 0.95340 0.05105 0.94895
102 0.00471 0.05105 0.94895 0.05575 0.94425
103 0.00497 0.05575 0.94425 0.06072 0.93928
104 0.00523 0.06072 0.93928 0.06595 0.93405
105 0.00549 0.06595 0.93405 0.07143 0.92857
106 0.00575 0.07143 0.92857 0.07718 0.92282
107 0.00600 0.07718 0.92282 0.08318 0.91682
108 0.00626 0.08318 0.91682 0.08944 0.91056
109 0.00651 0.08944 0.91056 0.09596 0.90404
110 0.00676 0.09596 0.90404 0.10271 0.89729
111 0.00700 0.10271 0.89729 0.10971 0.89029
112 0.00724 0.10971 0.89029 0.11695 0.88305
113 0.00747 0.11695 0.88305 0.12442 0.87558
114 0.00769 0.12442 0.87558 0.13211 0.86789
115 0.00791 0.13211 0.86789 0.14002 0.85998
116 0.00812 0.14002 0.85998 0.14814 0.85186
117 0.00832 0.14814 0.85186 0.15646 0.84354
118 0.00851 0.15646 0.84354 0.16497 0.83503
119 0.00870 0.16497 0.83503 0.17367 0.82633
120 0.00887 0.17367 0.82633 0.18254 0.81746
121 0.00903 0.18254 0.81746 0.19157 0.80843
122 0.00919 0.19157 0.80843 0.20076 0.79924
123 0.00933 0.20076 0.79924 0.21009 0.78991
124 0.00947 0.21009 0.78991 0.21956 0.78044
125 0.00960 0.21956 0.78044 0.22916 0.77084
126 0.00971 0.22916 0.77084 0.23887 0.76113
127 0.00982 0.23887 0.76113 0.24869 0.75131
128 0.00991 0.24869 0.75131 0.25860 0.74140
129 0.01000 0.25860 0.74140 0.26859 0.73141
130 0.01007 0.26859 0.73141 0.27867 0.72133
131 0.01014 0.27867 0.72133 0.28880 0.71120
132 0.01019 0.28880 0.71120 0.29900 0.70100
133 0.01024 0.29900 0.70100 0.30923 0.69077
134 0.01028 0.30923 0.69077 0.31951 0.68049
135 0.01030 0.31951 0.68049 0.32981 0.67019
136 0.01032 0.32981 0.67019 0.34014 0.65986
137 0.01033 0.34014 0.65986 0.35047 0.64953
138 0.01033 0.35047 0.64953 0.36080 0.63920
139 0.01033 0.36080 0.63920 0.37113 0.62887
140 0.01031 0.37113 0.62887 0.38144 0.61856
141 0.01029 0.38144 0.61856 0.39173 0.60827
142 0.01026 0.39173 0.60827 0.40200 0.59800
143 0.01023 0.40200 0.59800 0.41222 0.58778
144 0.01018 0.41222 0.58778 0.42240 0.57760
145 0.01013 0.42240 0.57760 0.43254 0.56746
146 0.01008 0.43254 0.56746 0.44261 0.55739
147 0.01002 0.44261 0.55739 0.45263 0.54737
148 0.00995 0.45263 0.54737 0.46258 0.53742
149 0.00988 0.46258 0.53742 0.47245 0.52755
150 0.00980 0.47245 0.52755 0.48225 0.51775
151 0.00972 0.48225 0.51775 0.49197 0.50803
152 0.00963 0.49197 0.50803 0.50160 0.49840
153 0.00954 0.50160 0.49840 0.51114 0.48886
154 0.00945 0.51114 0.48886 0.52058 0.47942
155 0.00935 0.52058 0.47942 0.52993 0.47007
156 0.00925 0.52993 0.47007 0.53918 0.46082
157 0.00914 0.53918 0.46082 0.54832 0.45168
158 0.00904 0.54832 0.45168 0.55736 0.44264
159 0.00893 0.55736 0.44264 0.56628 0.43372
160 0.00881 0.56628 0.43372 0.57510 0.42490
161 0.00870 0.57510 0.42490 0.58380 0.41620
162 0.00858 0.58380 0.41620 0.59238 0.40762
163 0.00847 0.59238 0.40762 0.60085 0.39915
164 0.00835 0.60085 0.39915 0.60920 0.39080
165 0.00823 0.60920 0.39080 0.61742 0.38258
166 0.00811 0.61742 0.38258 0.62553 0.37447
167 0.00798 0.62553 0.37447 0.63352 0.36648
168 0.00786 0.63352 0.36648 0.64138 0.35862
169 0.00774 0.64138 0.35862 0.64912 0.35088
170 0.00761 0.64912 0.35088 0.65673 0.34327
171 0.00749 0.65673 0.34327 0.66422 0.33578
172 0.00737 0.66422 0.33578 0.67159 0.32841
173 0.00724 0.67159 0.32841 0.67883 0.32117
174 0.00712 0.67883 0.32117 0.68595 0.31405
175 0.00699 0.68595 0.31405 0.69294 0.30706
176 0.00687 0.69294 0.30706 0.69982 0.30018
177 0.00675 0.69982 0.30018 0.70656 0.29344
178 0.00663 0.70656 0.29344 0.71319 0.28681
179 0.00651 0.71319 0.28681 0.71970 0.28030
180 0.00638 0.71970 0.28030 0.72608 0.27392
181 0.00626 0.72608 0.27392 0.73235 0.26765
182 0.00615 0.73235 0.26765 0.73849 0.26151
183 0.00603 0.73849 0.26151 0.74452 0.25548
184 0.00591 0.74452 0.25548 0.75043 0.24957
185 0.00580 0.75043 0.24957 0.75623 0.24377
186 0.00568 0.75623 0.24377 0.76191 0.23809
187 0.00557 0.76191 0.23809 0.76747 0.23253
188 0.00545 0.76747 0.23253 0.77293 0.22707
189 0.00534 0.77293 0.22707 0.77827 0.22173
190 0.00523 0.77827 0.22173 0.78351 0.21649
191 0.00513 0.78351 0.21649 0.78863 0.21137
192 0.00502 0.78863 0.21137 0.79365 0.20635
193 0.00491 0.79365 0.20635 0.79857 0.20143
194 0.00481 0.79857 0.20143 0.80338 0.19662
195 0.00471 0.80338 0.19662 0.80809 0.19191
196 0.00461 0.80809 0.19191 0.81270 0.18730
197 0.00451 0.81270 0.18730 0.81721 0.18279
198 0.00441 0.81721 0.18279 0.82162 0.17838
199 0.00432 0.82162 0.17838 0.82593 0.17407
200 0.00422 0.82593 0.17407 0.83015 0.16985
201 0.00413 0.83015 0.16985 0.83428 0.16572
202 0.00404 0.83428 0.16572 0.83832 0.16168
203 0.00395 0.83832 0.16168 0.84227 0.15773
204 0.00386 0.84227 0.15773 0.84612 0.15388
205 0.00377 0.84612 0.15388 0.84990 0.15010
206 0.00369 0.84990 0.15010 0.85358 0.14642
207 0.00360 0.85358 0.14642 0.85718 0.14282
208 0.00352 0.85718 0.14282 0.86071 0.13929
209 0.00344 0.86071 0.13929 0.86415 0.13585
210 0.00336 0.86415 0.13585 0.86751 0.13249
211 0.00328 0.86751 0.13249 0.87079 0.12921
212 0.00321 0.87079 0.12921 0.87400 0.12600
213 0.00313 0.87400 0.12600 0.87713 0.12287
214 0.00306 0.87713 0.12287 0.88019 0.11981
215 0.00299 0.88019 0.11981 0.88318 0.11682
216 0.00292 0.88318 0.11682 0.88610 0.11390
217 0.00285 0.88610 0.11390 0.88894 0.11106
218 0.00278 0.88894 0.11106 0.89173 0.10827
219 0.00272 0.89173 0.10827 0.89444 0.10556
220 0.00265 0.89444 0.10556 0.89709 0.10291
221 0.00259 0.89709 0.10291 0.89968 0.10032
222 0.00253 0.89968 0.10032 0.90221 0.09779
223 0.00247 0.90221 0.09779 0.90467 0.09533
224 0.00241 0.90467 0.09533 0.90708 0.09292
225 0.00235 0.90708 0.09292 0.90943 0.09057
226 0.00229 0.90943 0.09057 0.91172 0.08828
227 0.00224 0.91172 0.08828 0.91395 0.08605
228 0.00218 0.91395 0.08605 0.91613 0.08387
229 0.00213 0.91613 0.08387 0.91826 0.08174
230 0.00208 0.91826 0.08174 0.92034 0.07966
231 0.00203 0.92034 0.07966 0.92236 0.07764
232 0.00198 0.92236 0.07764 0.92434 0.07566
233 0.00193 0.92434 0.07566 0.92627 0.07373
234 0.00188 0.92627 0.07373 0.92815 0.07185
235 0.00183 0.92815 0.07185 0.92998 0.07002
236 0.00179 0.92998 0.07002 0.93177 0.06823
237 0.00174 0.93177 0.06823 0.93351 0.06649
238 0.00170 0.93351 0.06649 0.93521 0.06479
239 0.00166 0.93521 0.06479 0.93687 0.06313
240 0.00162 0.93687 0.06313 0.93849 0.06151
241 0.00158 0.93849 0.06151 0.94007 0.05993
242 0.00154 0.94007 0.05993 0.94160 0.05840
243 0.00150 0.94160 0.05840 0.94310 0.05690
244 0.00146 0.94310 0.05690 0.94457 0.05543
245 0.00143 0.94457 0.05543 0.94599 0.05401
246 0.00139 0.94599 0.05401 0.94738 0.05262
247 0.00135 0.94738 0.05262 0.94873 0.05127
248 0.00132 0.94873 0.05127 0.95005 0.04995
249 0.00129 0.95005 0.04995 0.95134 0.04866
250 0.00125 0.95134 0.04866 0.95260 0.04740
251 0.00122 0.95260 0.04740 0.95382 0.04618
252 0.00119 0.95382 0.04618 0.95501 0.04499
253 0.00116 0.95501 0.04499 0.95617 0.04383
254 0.00113 0.95617 0.04383 0.95731 0.04269
255 0.00110 0.95731 0.04269 0.95841 0.04159
256 0.00108 0.95841 0.04159 0.95949 0.04051
257 0.00105 0.95949 0.04051 0.96053 0.03947
258 0.00102 0.96053 0.03947 0.96156 0.03844
259 0.00100 0.96156 0.03844 0.96255 0.03745
260 0.00097 0.96255 0.03745 0.96352 0.03648
261 0.00095 0.96352 0.03648 0.96447 0.03553
262 0.00092 0.96447 0.03553 0.96539 0.03461
263 0.00090 0.96539 0.03461 0.96629 0.03371
264 0.00087 0.96629 0.03371 0.96716 0.03284
265 0.00085 0.96716 0.03284 0.96802 0.03198
266 0.00083 0.96802 0.03198 0.96885 0.03115
267 0.00081 0.96885 0.03115 0.96966 0.03034
268 0.00079 0.96966 0.03034 0.97044 0.02956
269 0.00077 0.97044 0.02956 0.97121 0.02879
270 0.00075 0.97121 0.02879 0.97196 0.02804
271 0.00073 0.97196 0.02804 0.97269 0.02731
272 0.00071 0.97269 0.02731 0.97340 0.02660
273 0.00069 0.97340 0.02660 0.97409 0.02591
274 0.00067 0.97409 0.02591 0.97477 0.02523
275 0.00066 0.97477 0.02523 0.97543 0.02457
276 0.00064 0.97543 0.02457 0.97607 0.02393
277 0.00062 0.97607 0.02393 0.97669 0.02331
278 0.00061 0.97669 0.02331 0.97730 0.02270
279 0.00059 0.97730 0.02270 0.97789 0.02211
280 0.00058 0.97789 0.02211 0.97847 0.02153
281 0.00056 0.97847 0.02153 0.97903 0.02097
282 0.00055 0.97903 0.02097 0.97958 0.02042
283 0.00053 0.97958 0.02042 0.98011 0.01989
284 0.00052 0.98011 0.01989 0.98063 0.01937
285 0.00051 0.98063 0.01937 0.98113 0.01887
286 0.00049 0.98113 0.01887 0.98163 0.01837
287 0.00048 0.98163 0.01837 0.98211 0.01789
288 0.00047 0.98211 0.01789 0.98257 0.01743
289 0.00046 0.98257 0.01743 0.98303 0.01697
290 0.00044 0.98303 0.01697 0.98347 0.01653
291 0.00043 0.98347 0.01653 0.98391 0.01609
292 0.00042 0.98391 0.01609 0.98433 0.01567
293 0.00041 0.98433 0.01567 0.98474 0.01526
294 0.00040 0.98474 0.01526 0.98514 0.01486
295 0.00039 0.98514 0.01486 0.98552 0.01448
296 0.00038 0.98552 0.01448 0.98590 0.01410
297 0.00037 0.98590 0.01410 0.98627 0.01373
298 0.00036 0.98627 0.01373 0.98663 0.01337
299 0.00035 0.98663 0.01337 0.98698 0.01302
300 0.00034 0.98698 0.01302 0.98732 0.01268
301 0.00033 0.98732 0.01268 0.98765 0.01235
302 0.00032 0.98765 0.01235 0.98798 0.01202
303 0.00031 0.98798 0.01202 0.98829 0.01171
304 0.00031 0.98829 0.01171 0.98860 0.01140
305 0.00030 0.98860 0.01140 0.98890 0.01110
306 0.00029 0.98890 0.01110 0.98919 0.01081
307 0.00028 0.98919 0.01081 0.98947 0.01053
308 0.00028 0.98947 0.01053 0.98975 0.01025
309 0.00027 0.98975 0.01025 0.99002 0.00998
310 0.00026 0.99002 0.00998 0.99028 0.00972
311 0.00025 0.99028 0.00972 0.99053 0.00947
312 0.00025 0.99053 0.00947 0.99078 0.00922
313 0.00024 0.99078 0.00922 0.99102 0.00898
314 0.00024 0.99102 0.00898 0.99126 0.00874
315 0.00023 0.99126 0.00874 0.99149 0.00851
316 0.00022 0.99149 0.00851 0.99171 0.00829
317 0.00022 0.99171 0.00829 0.99193 0.00807
318 0.00021 0.99193 0.00807 0.99214 0.00786
319 0.00021 0.99214 0.00786 0.99235 0.00765
320 0.00020 0.99235 0.00765 0.99255 0.00745
321 0.00020 0.99255 0.00745 0.99274 0.00726
322 0.00019 0.99274 0.00726 0.99293 0.00707
323 0.00019 0.99293 0.00707 0.99312 0.00688
324 0.00018 0.99312 0.00688 0.99330 0.00670
325 0.00018 0.99330 0.00670 0.99347 0.00653
326 0.00017 0.99347 0.00653 0.99365 0.00635
327 0.00017 0.99365 0.00635 0.99381 0.00619
328 0.00016 0.99381 0.00619 0.99398 0.00602
329 0.00016 0.99398 0.00602 0.99413 0.00587
330 0.00015 0.99413 0.00587 0.99429 0.00571
331 0.00015 0.99429 0.00571 0.99444 0.00556
332 0.00015 0.99444 0.00556 0.99458 0.00542
333 0.00014 0.99458 0.00542 0.99473 0.00527
334 0.00014 0.99473 0.00527 0.99486 0.00514
335 0.00013 0.99486 0.00514 0.99500 0.00500
336 0.00013 0.99500 0.00500 0.99513 0.00487
337 0.00013 0.99513 0.00487 0.99526 0.00474
338 0.00012 0.99526 0.00474 0.99538 0.00462
339 0.00012 0.99538 0.00462 0.99550 0.00450
340 0.00012 0.99550 0.00450 0.99562 0.00438
341 0.00012 0.99562 0.00438 0.99574 0.00426
342 0.00011 0.99574 0.00426 0.99585 0.00415
343 0.00011 0.99585 0.00415 0.99596 0.00404
344 0.00011 0.99596 0.00404 0.99606 0.00394
345 0.00010 0.99606 0.00394 0.99617 0.00383
346 0.00010 0.99617 0.00383 0.99627 0.00373
347 0.00010 0.99627 0.00373 0.99637 0.00363
348 0.00010 0.99637 0.00363 0.99646 0.00354
349 0.00009 0.99646 0.00354 0.99656 0.00344
350 0.00009 0.99656 0.00344 0.99665 0.00335
351 0.00009 0.99665 0.00335 0.99673 0.00327
352 0.00009 0.99673 0.00327 0.99682 0.00318
353 0.00008 0.99682 0.00318 0.99690 0.00310
354 0.00008 0.99690 0.00310 0.99698 0.00302
355 0.00008 0.99698 0.00302 0.99706 0.00294
356 0.00008 0.99706 0.00294 0.99714 0.00286
357 0.00008 0.99714 0.00286 0.99722 0.00278
358 0.00007 0.99722 0.00278 0.99729 0.00271
359 0.00007 0.99729 0.00271 0.99736 0.00264
360 0.00007 0.99736 0.00264 0.99743 0.00257
361 0.00007 0.99743 0.00257 0.99750 0.00250
362 0.00007 0.99750 0.00250 0.99756 0.00244
363 0.00006 0.99756 0.00244 0.99763 0.00237
364 0.00006 0.99763 0.00237 0.99769 0.00231
365 0.00006 0.99769 0.00231 0.99775 0.00225
366 0.00006 0.99775 0.00225 0.99781 0.00219
367 0.00006 0.99781 0.00219 0.99787 0.00213
368 0.00006 0.99787 0.00213 0.99792 0.00208
369 0.00005 0.99792 0.00208 0.99798 0.00202
370 0.00005 0.99798 0.00202 0.99803 0.00197
371 0.00005 0.99803 0.00197 0.99808 0.00192
372 0.00005 0.99808 0.00192 0.99813 0.00187
373 0.00005 0.99813 0.00187 0.99818 0.00182
374 0.00005 0.99818 0.00182 0.99823 0.00177
375 0.00005 0.99823 0.00177 0.99828 0.00172
376 0.00005 0.99828 0.00172 0.99832 0.00168
377 0.00004 0.99832 0.00168 0.99837 0.00163
378 0.00004 0.99837 0.00163 0.99841 0.00159
379 0.00004 0.99841 0.00159 0.99845 0.00155
380 0.00004 0.99845 0.00155 0.99849 0.00151
381 0.00004 0.99849 0.00151 0.99853 0.00147
382 0.00004 0.99853 0.00147 0.99857 0.00143
383 0.00004 0.99857 0.00143 0.99861 0.00139
384 0.00004 0.99861 0.00139 0.99864 0.00136
385 0.00004 0.99864 0.00136 0.99868 0.00132
386 0.00003 0.99868 0.00132 0.99871 0.00129
387 0.00003 0.99871 0.00129 0.99875 0.00125
388 0.00003 0.99875 0.00125 0.99878 0.00122
389 0.00003 0.99878 0.00122 0.99881 0.00119
390 0.00003 0.99881 0.00119 0.99884 0.00116
391 0.00003 0.99884 0.00116 0.99888 0.00112
392 0.00003 0.99888 0.00112 0.99890 0.00110
393 0.00003 0.99890 0.00110 0.99893 0.00107
394 0.00003 0.99893 0.00107 0.99896 0.00104
395 0.00003 0.99896 0.00104 0.99899 0.00101
396 0.00003 0.99899 0.00101 0.99902 0.00098
397 0.00003 0.99902 0.00098 0.99904 0.00096
398 0.00003 0.99904 0.00096 0.99907 0.00093
399 0.00002 0.99907 0.00093 0.99909 0.00091
400 0.00002 0.99909 0.00091 0.99912 0.00088
401 0.00002 0.99912 0.00088 0.99914 0.00086
402 0.00002 0.99914 0.00086 0.99916 0.00084
403 0.00002 0.99916 0.00084 0.99918 0.00082
404 0.00002 0.99918 0.00082 0.99920 0.00080
405 0.00002 0.99920 0.00080 0.99923 0.00077
406 0.00002 0.99923 0.00077 0.99925 0.00075
407 0.00002 0.99925 0.00075 0.99927 0.00073
408 0.00002 0.99927 0.00073 0.99929 0.00071
409 0.00002 0.99929 0.00071 0.99930 0.00070
410 0.00002 0.99930 0.00070 0.99932 0.00068
411 0.00002 0.99932 0.00068 0.99934 0.00066
412 0.00002 0.99934 0.00066 0.99936 0.00064
413 0.00002 0.99936 0.00064 0.99937 0.00063
414 0.00002 0.99937 0.00063 0.99939 0.00061
415 0.00002 0.99939 0.00061 0.99941 0.00059
416 0.00002 0.99941 0.00059 0.99942 0.00058
417 0.00002 0.99942 0.00058 0.99944 0.00056

sim data
Max # of spins in this 1 million session sim was 710
    group          middle     freq  freq/100
------------------------------------------------
53.50 <= x < 56.50 55.00 1 0.00%
56.50 <= x < 59.50 58.00 2 0.00%
59.50 <= x < 62.50 61.00 16 0.00%
62.50 <= x < 65.50 64.00 47 0.00%
65.50 <= x < 68.50 67.00 106 0.01%
68.50 <= x < 71.50 70.00 271 0.03%
71.50 <= x < 74.50 73.00 488 0.05%
74.50 <= x < 77.50 76.00 863 0.09%
77.50 <= x < 80.50 79.00 1422 0.14%
80.50 <= x < 83.50 82.00 2266 0.23%
83.50 <= x < 86.50 85.00 3280 0.33%
86.50 <= x < 89.50 88.00 4783 0.48%
89.50 <= x < 92.50 91.00 6302 0.63%
92.50 <= x < 95.50 94.00 8434 0.84%
95.50 <= x < 98.50 97.00 10460 1.05%
98.50 <= x < 101.50 100.00 12606 1.26%
101.50 <= x < 104.50 103.00 14931 1.49%
104.50 <= x < 107.50 106.00 17157 1.72%
107.50 <= x < 110.50 109.00 19381 1.94%
110.50 <= x < 113.50 112.00 21826 2.18%
113.50 <= x < 116.50 115.00 23488 2.35%
116.50 <= x < 119.50 118.00 25529 2.55%
119.50 <= x < 122.50 121.00 26965 2.70%
122.50 <= x < 125.50 124.00 28236 2.82%
125.50 <= x < 128.50 127.00 29345 2.93%
128.50 <= x < 131.50 130.00 30161 3.02%
131.50 <= x < 134.50 133.00 30876 3.09%
134.50 <= x < 137.50 136.00 30939 3.09%
137.50 <= x < 140.50 139.00 31179 3.12%
140.50 <= x < 143.50 142.00 30847 3.08%
143.50 <= x < 146.50 145.00 30209 3.02%
146.50 <= x < 149.50 148.00 29764 2.98%
149.50 <= x < 152.50 151.00 29197 2.92%
152.50 <= x < 155.50 154.00 28455 2.85%
155.50 <= x < 158.50 157.00 27244 2.72%
158.50 <= x < 161.50 160.00 26649 2.66%
161.50 <= x < 164.50 163.00 25277 2.53%
164.50 <= x < 167.50 166.00 24050 2.40%
167.50 <= x < 170.50 169.00 23143 2.31%
170.50 <= x < 173.50 172.00 22209 2.22%
173.50 <= x < 176.50 175.00 21102 2.11%
176.50 <= x < 179.50 178.00 20056 2.01%
179.50 <= x < 182.50 181.00 18876 1.89%
182.50 <= x < 185.50 184.00 17550 1.76%
185.50 <= x < 188.50 187.00 16717 1.67%
188.50 <= x < 191.50 190.00 15651 1.57%
191.50 <= x < 194.50 193.00 14634 1.46%
194.50 <= x < 197.50 196.00 14117 1.41%
197.50 <= x < 200.50 199.00 13001 1.30%
200.50 <= x < 203.50 202.00 12172 1.22%
203.50 <= x < 206.50 205.00 11479 1.15%
206.50 <= x < 209.50 208.00 10567 1.06%
209.50 <= x < 212.50 211.00 9954 1.00%
212.50 <= x < 215.50 214.00 9227 0.92%
215.50 <= x < 218.50 217.00 8482 0.85%
218.50 <= x < 221.50 220.00 7995 0.80%
221.50 <= x < 224.50 223.00 7306 0.73%
224.50 <= x < 227.50 226.00 7018 0.70%
227.50 <= x < 230.50 229.00 6496 0.65%
230.50 <= x < 233.50 232.00 5890 0.59%
233.50 <= x < 236.50 235.00 5557 0.56%
236.50 <= x < 239.50 238.00 5085 0.51%
239.50 <= x < 242.50 241.00 4745 0.47%
242.50 <= x < 245.50 244.00 4405 0.44%
245.50 <= x < 248.50 247.00 3960 0.40%
248.50 <= x < 251.50 250.00 3755 0.38%
251.50 <= x < 254.50 253.00 3521 0.35%
254.50 <= x < 257.50 256.00 3193 0.32%
257.50 <= x < 260.50 259.00 2960 0.30%
260.50 <= x < 263.50 262.00 2795 0.28%
263.50 <= x < 266.50 265.00 2611 0.26%
266.50 <= x < 269.50 268.00 2332 0.23%
269.50 <= x < 272.50 271.00 2119 0.21%
272.50 <= x < 275.50 274.00 1933 0.19%
275.50 <= x < 278.50 277.00 1917 0.19%
278.50 <= x < 281.50 280.00 1758 0.18%
281.50 <= x < 284.50 283.00 1519 0.15%
284.50 <= x < 287.50 286.00 1463 0.15%
287.50 <= x < 290.50 289.00 1297 0.13%
290.50 <= x < 293.50 292.00 1266 0.13%
293.50 <= x < 296.50 295.00 1203 0.12%
296.50 <= x < 299.50 298.00 1048 0.10%
299.50 <= x < 302.50 301.00 1019 0.10%
302.50 <= x < 305.50 304.00 904 0.09%
305.50 <= x < 308.50 307.00 860 0.09%
308.50 <= x < 311.50 310.00 782 0.08%
311.50 <= x < 314.50 313.00 736 0.07%
314.50 <= x < 317.50 316.00 691 0.07%
317.50 <= x < 320.50 319.00 667 0.07%
320.50 <= x < 323.50 322.00 553 0.06%
323.50 <= x < 326.50 325.00 554 0.06%
326.50 <= x < 329.50 328.00 444 0.04%
329.50 <= x < 332.50 331.00 458 0.05%
332.50 <= x < 335.50 334.00 398 0.04%
335.50 <= x < 338.50 337.00 375 0.04%
338.50 <= x < 341.50 340.00 325 0.03%
341.50 <= x < 344.50 343.00 323 0.03%
344.50 <= x < 347.50 346.00 291 0.03%
347.50 <= x < 350.50 349.00 270 0.03%
350.50 <= x < 353.50 352.00 267 0.03%
353.50 <= x < 356.50 355.00 244 0.02%
356.50 <= x < 359.50 358.00 224 0.02%
359.50 <= x < 362.50 361.00 192 0.02%
362.50 <= x < 365.50 364.00 203 0.02%
365.50 <= x < 368.50 367.00 184 0.02%
368.50 <= x < 371.50 370.00 160 0.02%
371.50 <= x < 374.50 373.00 111 0.01%
374.50 <= x < 377.50 376.00 129 0.01%
377.50 <= x < 380.50 379.00 118 0.01%
380.50 <= x < 383.50 382.00 98 0.01%
383.50 <= x < 386.50 385.00 92 0.01%
386.50 <= x < 389.50 388.00 100 0.01%
389.50 <= x < 392.50 391.00 74 0.01%
392.50 <= x < 395.50 394.00 91 0.01%
395.50 <= x < 398.50 397.00 73 0.01%
398.50 <= x < 401.50 400.00 48 0.00%
401.50 <= x < 404.50 403.00 58 0.01%
404.50 <= x < 407.50 406.00 58 0.01%
407.50 <= x < 410.50 409.00 49 0.00%
410.50 <= x < 413.50 412.00 48 0.00%
413.50 <= x < 416.50 415.00 43 0.00%
416.50 <= x < 419.50 418.00 38 0.00%
419.50 <= x < 422.50 421.00 43 0.00%
422.50 <= x < 425.50 424.00 30 0.00%
425.50 <= x < 428.50 427.00 31 0.00%
428.50 <= x < 431.50 430.00 24 0.00%
431.50 <= x < 434.50 433.00 28 0.00%
434.50 <= x < 437.50 436.00 28 0.00%
437.50 <= x < 440.50 439.00 26 0.00%
440.50 <= x < 443.50 442.00 19 0.00%
443.50 <= x < 446.50 445.00 25 0.00%
446.50 <= x < 449.50 448.00 9 0.00%
449.50 <= x < 452.50 451.00 21 0.00%
452.50 <= x < 455.50 454.00 12 0.00%
455.50 <= x < 458.50 457.00 17 0.00%
458.50 <= x < 461.50 460.00 16 0.00%
461.50 <= x < 464.50 463.00 14 0.00%
464.50 <= x < 467.50 466.00 12 0.00%
467.50 <= x < 470.50 469.00 15 0.00%
470.50 <= x < 473.50 472.00 11 0.00%
473.50 <= x < 476.50 475.00 5 0.00%
476.50 <= x < 479.50 478.00 9 0.00%
479.50 <= x < 482.50 481.00 7 0.00%
482.50 <= x < 485.50 484.00 13 0.00%
485.50 <= x < 488.50 487.00 8 0.00%
488.50 <= x < 491.50 490.00 4 0.00%
491.50 <= x < 494.50 493.00 7 0.00%
494.50 <= x < 497.50 496.00 6 0.00%
497.50 <= x < 500.50 499.00 6 0.00%
500.50 <= x < 503.50 502.00 5 0.00%
503.50 <= x < 506.50 505.00 3 0.00%
506.50 <= x < 509.50 508.00 3 0.00%
509.50 <= x < 512.50 511.00 4 0.00%
512.50 <= x < 515.50 514.00 1 0.00%
515.50 <= x < 518.50 517.00 5 0.00%
518.50 <= x < 521.50 520.00 0
521.50 <= x < 524.50 523.00 7 0.00%
524.50 <= x < 527.50 526.00 3 0.00%
527.50 <= x < 530.50 529.00 3 0.00%
530.50 <= x < 533.50 532.00 2 0.00%
533.50 <= x < 536.50 535.00 1 0.00%
536.50 <= x < 539.50 538.00 2 0.00%
539.50 <= x < 542.50 541.00 4 0.00%
542.50 <= x < 545.50 544.00 3 0.00%
545.50 <= x < 548.50 547.00 2 0.00%
548.50 <= x < 551.50 550.00 1 0.00%
551.50 <= x < 554.50 553.00 0
554.50 <= x < 557.50 556.00 2 0.00%
557.50 <= x < 560.50 559.00 0
560.50 <= x < 563.50 562.00 0
563.50 <= x < 566.50 565.00 1 0.00%
566.50 <= x < 569.50 568.00 0
569.50 <= x < 572.50 571.00 0
572.50 <= x < 575.50 574.00 1 0.00%
575.50 <= x < 578.50 577.00 2 0.00%
578.50 <= x < 581.50 580.00 0
581.50 <= x < 584.50 583.00 0
584.50 <= x < 587.50 586.00 1 0.00%
587.50 <= x < 590.50 589.00 1 0.00%
590.50 <= x < 593.50 592.00 0
593.50 <= x < 596.50 595.00 3 0.00%
596.50 <= x < 599.50 598.00 0
599.50 <= x < 602.50 601.00 1 0.00%
602.50 <= x < 605.50 604.00 0
605.50 <= x < 608.50 607.00 0
608.50 <= x < 611.50 610.00 1 0.00%
611.50 <= x < 614.50 613.00 0
614.50 <= x < 617.50 616.00 1 0.00%
617.50 <= x < 620.50 619.00 0
620.50 <= x < 623.50 622.00 0
623.50 <= x < 626.50 625.00 1 0.00%
626.50 <= x < 629.50 628.00 0
629.50 <= x < 632.50 631.00 0
632.50 <= x < 635.50 634.00 0
635.50 <= x < 638.50 637.00 0
638.50 <= x < 641.50 640.00 0
641.50 <= x < 644.50 643.00 0
644.50 <= x < 647.50 646.00 0
647.50 <= x < 650.50 649.00 1 0.00%
650.50 <= x < 653.50 652.00 0
653.50 <= x < 656.50 655.00 0
656.50 <= x < 659.50 658.00 0
659.50 <= x < 662.50 661.00 0
662.50 <= x < 665.50 664.00 0
665.50 <= x < 668.50 667.00 0
668.50 <= x < 671.50 670.00 0
671.50 <= x < 674.50 673.00 0
674.50 <= x < 677.50 676.00 0
677.50 <= x < 680.50 679.00 0
680.50 <= x < 683.50 682.00 0
683.50 <= x < 686.50 685.00 0
686.50 <= x < 689.50 688.00 0
689.50 <= x < 692.50 691.00 0
692.50 <= x < 695.50 694.00 0
695.50 <= x < 698.50 697.00 0
698.50 <= x < 701.50 700.00 0
701.50 <= x < 704.50 703.00 0
704.50 <= x < 707.50 706.00 0
707.50 <= x < 710.50 709.00 1 0.00%

------------------------------------------------
grouped data
items: 1000000

minimum value: 55.00
first quartile: 128.00
median: 152.00
third quartile: 184.00
maximum value: 710.00

mean value: 160.63
midrange: 382.50

range: 655.00
interquartile range: 56.00
mean abs deviation: 35.61

sample variance (n): 2166.24
sample variance (n-1): 2166.25
sample std dev (n): 46.54
sample std dev (n-1): 46.54

------------------------------------------------
cumulative
------------------------------------------------
53.50 <= x < 56.50 55.00 1 0.00%
56.50 <= x < 59.50 58.00 3 0.00%
59.50 <= x < 62.50 61.00 19 0.00%
62.50 <= x < 65.50 64.00 66 0.01%
65.50 <= x < 68.50 67.00 172 0.02%
68.50 <= x < 71.50 70.00 443 0.04%
71.50 <= x < 74.50 73.00 931 0.09%
74.50 <= x < 77.50 76.00 1794 0.18%
77.50 <= x < 80.50 79.00 3216 0.32%
80.50 <= x < 83.50 82.00 5482 0.55%
83.50 <= x < 86.50 85.00 8762 0.88%
86.50 <= x < 89.50 88.00 13545 1.35%
89.50 <= x < 92.50 91.00 19847 1.98%
92.50 <= x < 95.50 94.00 28281 2.83%
95.50 <= x < 98.50 97.00 38741 3.87%
98.50 <= x < 101.50 100.00 51347 5.13%
101.50 <= x < 104.50 103.00 66278 6.63%
104.50 <= x < 107.50 106.00 83435 8.34%
107.50 <= x < 110.50 109.00 102816 10.28%
110.50 <= x < 113.50 112.00 124642 12.46%
113.50 <= x < 116.50 115.00 148130 14.81%
116.50 <= x < 119.50 118.00 173659 17.37%
119.50 <= x < 122.50 121.00 200624 20.06%
122.50 <= x < 125.50 124.00 228860 22.89%
125.50 <= x < 128.50 127.00 258205 25.82%
128.50 <= x < 131.50 130.00 288366 28.84%
131.50 <= x < 134.50 133.00 319242 31.92%
134.50 <= x < 137.50 136.00 350181 35.02%
137.50 <= x < 140.50 139.00 381360 38.14%
140.50 <= x < 143.50 142.00 412207 41.22%
143.50 <= x < 146.50 145.00 442416 44.24%
146.50 <= x < 149.50 148.00 472180 47.22%
149.50 <= x < 152.50 151.00 501377 50.14%
152.50 <= x < 155.50 154.00 529832 52.98%
155.50 <= x < 158.50 157.00 557076 55.71%
158.50 <= x < 161.50 160.00 583725 58.37%
161.50 <= x < 164.50 163.00 609002 60.90%
164.50 <= x < 167.50 166.00 633052 63.31%
167.50 <= x < 170.50 169.00 656195 65.62%
170.50 <= x < 173.50 172.00 678404 67.84%
173.50 <= x < 176.50 175.00 699506 69.95%
176.50 <= x < 179.50 178.00 719562 71.96%
179.50 <= x < 182.50 181.00 738438 73.84%
182.50 <= x < 185.50 184.00 755988 75.60%
185.50 <= x < 188.50 187.00 772705 77.27%
188.50 <= x < 191.50 190.00 788356 78.84%
191.50 <= x < 194.50 193.00 802990 80.30%
194.50 <= x < 197.50 196.00 817107 81.71%
197.50 <= x < 200.50 199.00 830108 83.01%
200.50 <= x < 203.50 202.00 842280 84.23%
203.50 <= x < 206.50 205.00 853759 85.38%
206.50 <= x < 209.50 208.00 864326 86.43%
209.50 <= x < 212.50 211.00 874280 87.43%
212.50 <= x < 215.50 214.00 883507 88.35%
215.50 <= x < 218.50 217.00 891989 89.20%
218.50 <= x < 221.50 220.00 899984 90.00%
221.50 <= x < 224.50 223.00 907290 90.73%
224.50 <= x < 227.50 226.00 914308 91.43%
227.50 <= x < 230.50 229.00 920804 92.08%
230.50 <= x < 233.50 232.00 926694 92.67%
233.50 <= x < 236.50 235.00 932251 93.23%
236.50 <= x < 239.50 238.00 937336 93.73%
239.50 <= x < 242.50 241.00 942081 94.21%
242.50 <= x < 245.50 244.00 946486 94.65%
245.50 <= x < 248.50 247.00 950446 95.04%
248.50 <= x < 251.50 250.00 954201 95.42%
251.50 <= x < 254.50 253.00 957722 95.77%
254.50 <= x < 257.50 256.00 960915 96.09%
257.50 <= x < 260.50 259.00 963875 96.39%
260.50 <= x < 263.50 262.00 966670 96.67%
263.50 <= x < 266.50 265.00 969281 96.93%
266.50 <= x < 269.50 268.00 971613 97.16%
269.50 <= x < 272.50 271.00 973732 97.37%
272.50 <= x < 275.50 274.00 975665 97.57%
275.50 <= x < 278.50 277.00 977582 97.76%
278.50 <= x < 281.50 280.00 979340 97.93%
281.50 <= x < 284.50 283.00 980859 98.09%
284.50 <= x < 287.50 286.00 982322 98.23%
287.50 <= x < 290.50 289.00 983619 98.36%
290.50 <= x < 293.50 292.00 984885 98.49%
293.50 <= x < 296.50 295.00 986088 98.61%
296.50 <= x < 299.50 298.00 987136 98.71%
299.50 <= x < 302.50 301.00 988155 98.82%
302.50 <= x < 305.50 304.00 989059 98.91%
305.50 <= x < 308.50 307.00 989919 98.99%
308.50 <= x < 311.50 310.00 990701 99.07%
311.50 <= x < 314.50 313.00 991437 99.14%
314.50 <= x < 317.50 316.00 992128 99.21%
317.50 <= x < 320.50 319.00 992795 99.28%
320.50 <= x < 323.50 322.00 993348 99.33%
323.50 <= x < 326.50 325.00 993902 99.39%
326.50 <= x < 329.50 328.00 994346 99.43%
329.50 <= x < 332.50 331.00 994804 99.48%
332.50 <= x < 335.50 334.00 995202 99.52%
335.50 <= x < 338.50 337.00 995577 99.56%
338.50 <= x < 341.50 340.00 995902 99.59%
341.50 <= x < 344.50 343.00 996225 99.62%
344.50 <= x < 347.50 346.00 996516 99.65%
347.50 <= x < 350.50 349.00 996786 99.68%
350.50 <= x < 353.50 352.00 997053 99.71%
353.50 <= x < 356.50 355.00 997297 99.73%
356.50 <= x < 359.50 358.00 997521 99.75%
359.50 <= x < 362.50 361.00 997713 99.77%
362.50 <= x < 365.50 364.00 997916 99.79%
365.50 <= x < 368.50 367.00 998100 99.81%
368.50 <= x < 371.50 370.00 998260 99.83%
371.50 <= x < 374.50 373.00 998371 99.84%
374.50 <= x < 377.50 376.00 998500 99.85%
377.50 <= x < 380.50 379.00 998618 99.86%
380.50 <= x < 383.50 382.00 998716 99.87%
383.50 <= x < 386.50 385.00 998808 99.88%
386.50 <= x < 389.50 388.00 998908 99.89%
389.50 <= x < 392.50 391.00 998982 99.90%
392.50 <= x < 395.50 394.00 999073 99.91%
395.50 <= x < 398.50 397.00 999146 99.91%
398.50 <= x < 401.50 400.00 999194 99.92%
401.50 <= x < 404.50 403.00 999252 99.93%
404.50 <= x < 407.50 406.00 999310 99.93%
407.50 <= x < 410.50 409.00 999359 99.94%
410.50 <= x < 413.50 412.00 999407 99.94%
413.50 <= x < 416.50 415.00 999450 99.94%
416.50 <= x < 419.50 418.00 999488 99.95%
419.50 <= x < 422.50 421.00 999531 99.95%
422.50 <= x < 425.50 424.00 999561 99.96%
425.50 <= x < 428.50 427.00 999592 99.96%
428.50 <= x < 431.50 430.00 999616 99.96%
431.50 <= x < 434.50 433.00 999644 99.96%
434.50 <= x < 437.50 436.00 999672 99.97%
437.50 <= x < 440.50 439.00 999698 99.97%
440.50 <= x < 443.50 442.00 999717 99.97%
443.50 <= x < 446.50 445.00 999742 99.97%
446.50 <= x < 449.50 448.00 999751 99.98%
449.50 <= x < 452.50 451.00 999772 99.98%
452.50 <= x < 455.50 454.00 999784 99.98%
455.50 <= x < 458.50 457.00 999801 99.98%
458.50 <= x < 461.50 460.00 999817 99.98%
461.50 <= x < 464.50 463.00 999831 99.98%
464.50 <= x < 467.50 466.00 999843 99.98%
467.50 <= x < 470.50 469.00 999858 99.99%
470.50 <= x < 473.50 472.00 999869 99.99%
473.50 <= x < 476.50 475.00 999874 99.99%
476.50 <= x < 479.50 478.00 999883 99.99%
479.50 <= x < 482.50 481.00 999890 99.99%
482.50 <= x < 485.50 484.00 999903 99.99%
485.50 <= x < 488.50 487.00 999911 99.99%
488.50 <= x < 491.50 490.00 999915 99.99%
491.50 <= x < 494.50 493.00 999922 99.99%
494.50 <= x < 497.50 496.00 999928 99.99%
497.50 <= x < 500.50 499.00 999934 99.99%
500.50 <= x < 503.50 502.00 999939 99.99%
503.50 <= x < 506.50 505.00 999942 99.99%
506.50 <= x < 509.50 508.00 999945 99.99%
509.50 <= x < 512.50 511.00 999949 99.99%
512.50 <= x < 515.50 514.00 999950 100.00%
515.50 <= x < 518.50 517.00 999955 100.00%
518.50 <= x < 521.50 520.00 999955 100.00%
521.50 <= x < 524.50 523.00 999962 100.00%
524.50 <= x < 527.50 526.00 999965 100.00%
527.50 <= x < 530.50 529.00 999968 100.00%
530.50 <= x < 533.50 532.00 999970 100.00%
533.50 <= x < 536.50 535.00 999971 100.00%
536.50 <= x < 539.50 538.00 999973 100.00%
539.50 <= x < 542.50 541.00 999977 100.00%
542.50 <= x < 545.50 544.00 999980 100.00%
545.50 <= x < 548.50 547.00 999982 100.00%
548.50 <= x < 551.50 550.00 999983 100.00%
551.50 <= x < 554.50 553.00 999983 100.00%
554.50 <= x < 557.50 556.00 999985 100.00%
557.50 <= x < 560.50 559.00 999985 100.00%
560.50 <= x < 563.50 562.00 999985 100.00%
563.50 <= x < 566.50 565.00 999986 100.00%
566.50 <= x < 569.50 568.00 999986 100.00%
569.50 <= x < 572.50 571.00 999986 100.00%
572.50 <= x < 575.50 574.00 999987 100.00%
575.50 <= x < 578.50 577.00 999989 100.00%
578.50 <= x < 581.50 580.00 999989 100.00%
581.50 <= x < 584.50 583.00 999989 100.00%
584.50 <= x < 587.50 586.00 999990 100.00%
587.50 <= x < 590.50 589.00 999991 100.00%
590.50 <= x < 593.50 592.00 999991 100.00%
593.50 <= x < 596.50 595.00 999994 100.00%
596.50 <= x < 599.50 598.00 999994 100.00%
599.50 <= x < 602.50 601.00 999995 100.00%
602.50 <= x < 605.50 604.00 999995 100.00%
605.50 <= x < 608.50 607.00 999995 100.00%
608.50 <= x < 611.50 610.00 999996 100.00%
611.50 <= x < 614.50 613.00 999996 100.00%
614.50 <= x < 617.50 616.00 999997 100.00%
617.50 <= x < 620.50 619.00 999997 100.00%
620.50 <= x < 623.50 622.00 999997 100.00%
623.50 <= x < 626.50 625.00 999998 100.00%
626.50 <= x < 629.50 628.00 999998 100.00%
629.50 <= x < 632.50 631.00 999998 100.00%
632.50 <= x < 635.50 634.00 999998 100.00%
635.50 <= x < 638.50 637.00 999998 100.00%
638.50 <= x < 641.50 640.00 999998 100.00%
641.50 <= x < 644.50 643.00 999998 100.00%
644.50 <= x < 647.50 646.00 999998 100.00%
647.50 <= x < 650.50 649.00 999999 100.00%
650.50 <= x < 653.50 652.00 999999 100.00%
653.50 <= x < 656.50 655.00 999999 100.00%
656.50 <= x < 659.50 658.00 999999 100.00%
659.50 <= x < 662.50 661.00 999999 100.00%
662.50 <= x < 665.50 664.00 999999 100.00%
665.50 <= x < 668.50 667.00 999999 100.00%
668.50 <= x < 671.50 670.00 999999 100.00%
671.50 <= x < 674.50 673.00 999999 100.00%
674.50 <= x < 677.50 676.00 999999 100.00%
677.50 <= x < 680.50 679.00 999999 100.00%
680.50 <= x < 683.50 682.00 999999 100.00%
683.50 <= x < 686.50 685.00 999999 100.00%
686.50 <= x < 689.50 688.00 999999 100.00%
689.50 <= x < 692.50 691.00 999999 100.00%
692.50 <= x < 695.50 694.00 999999 100.00%
695.50 <= x < 698.50 697.00 999999 100.00%
698.50 <= x < 701.50 700.00 999999 100.00%
701.50 <= x < 704.50 703.00 999999 100.00%
704.50 <= x < 707.50 706.00 999999 100.00%
707.50 <= x < 710.50 709.00 1000000 100.00%

winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Keyser
Keyser
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2106
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
June 13th, 2012 at 8:50:47 PM permalink
Maui,

Why do you keep bringing up the law of the third? Who's even trying to use it and why?
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 8:57:20 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

It may be a layman's law, but not a law my any known mathematician.

In 38 spins, the average number of unique numbers hit is about 24.2 (24 or 25)
That means between 13 and 14 that have not hit in 38 spins
(12.67 would be 1/3)

The probability of that is just about 40%.

You can play with the distribution if you like

Unique numbers 38 spins 00 wheel
group middle freq freq/100
----------------------------------------------
14.50 <= x < 15.50 15.00 1 0.00%
15.50 <= x < 16.50 16.00 21 0.00%
16.50 <= x < 17.50 17.00 186 0.02%
17.50 <= x < 18.50 18.00 1222 0.12%
18.50 <= x < 19.50 19.00 5662 0.57%
19.50 <= x < 20.50 20.00 19492 1.95%
20.50 <= x < 21.50 21.00 52418 5.24%
21.50 <= x < 22.50 22.00 106767 10.68%
22.50 <= x < 23.50 23.00 168797 16.88%
23.50 <= x < 24.50 24.00 204829 20.48%
24.50 <= x < 25.50 25.00 190812 19.08%
25.50 <= x < 26.50 26.00 135407 13.54%
26.50 <= x < 27.50 27.00 73138 7.31%
27.50 <= x < 28.50 28.00 29826 2.98%
28.50 <= x < 29.50 29.00 9025 0.90%
29.50 <= x < 30.50 30.00 2026 0.20%
30.50 <= x < 31.50 31.00 338 0.03%
31.50 <= x < 32.50 32.00 30 0.00%
32.50 <= x < 33.50 33.00 2 0.00%
33.50 <= x < 34.50 34.00 1 0.00%



I agree it's not any kind of statistical law but it's a rule of thumb- about 1/3 of the nnumbers generated within a set will be missing due to duplicates. e.g. generating 1,000 numbers between 1 and 1,000 will have about 1/3 missing and 1/3 duplicates.

It's just interesting and tthe basis for the "Sleepping Dozen" nonsense in Roulette..

So how many spins are needed for all 38 numbers to show up?
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 8:58:48 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Maui,

Why do you keep bringing up the law of the third? Who's even trying to use it and why?




It's that basis for hundreds of Roulette systems - there are chat rooms where everyone seems to believe in it.....
Keyser
Keyser
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2106
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
June 13th, 2012 at 9:00:13 PM permalink
There are???
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 9:02:58 PM permalink
Of course, this is a quirk of random numbers and folks believe there is something there.

I guess if the Roulette wheel spun 38 times and all 38 numbers showed up, in a random order, that would probably mean something is rigged.....
Keyser
Keyser
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2106
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
June 13th, 2012 at 9:04:28 PM permalink
Who are these people? What chat room? And why?

If you're supposedly an aerospace engineer, then why are you hanging out on such a roulette system forum talking about the law of the third???
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 9:08:45 PM permalink
I'm not going to make fun of the 2 chat rooms - they are both owned by the same guy who hawks his "Make a billion dollars with my $29.99 Roulette system" - I'm banned from both of them; I asked too many questions..........
Keyser
Keyser
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2106
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
June 13th, 2012 at 9:11:37 PM permalink
It sound pretty absurd. Why would you go there in the first place?
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 9:16:52 PM permalink
What can I say, I enjoy watching folks make fools of themselves.

I'm a bad person...........
Keyser
Keyser
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2106
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
June 13th, 2012 at 9:27:40 PM permalink
Maui,

As an "aerospace engineer", what formula would you use to account for the decay of the spinning ball in relation to the spinning rotor?
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 9:43:17 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Maui,

As an "aerospace engineer", what formula would you use to account for the decay of the spinning ball in relation to the spinning rotor?



Hell if I know, I haven't practiced AE since I started in computers in 1972 after getting out of the Air Force.

Doing a Google Search I find:

http://www.roulette.gmxhome.de/roulette[1].pdf <- I think this is what you want.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.6412.pdf <- this looks cool

http://www.worldacademicunion.com/journal/SSCI/sscivol05no01paper02.pdf

If there was something to this there would be a lot of wealthy AEs out there..........
Keyser
Keyser
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2106
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
June 13th, 2012 at 9:49:02 PM permalink
There are, but I wouldn't use the word a lot and they aren't necessarily AEs.
MauiSunset
MauiSunset
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 159
Joined: Jun 5, 2012
June 13th, 2012 at 9:55:04 PM permalink
At our local Harrah's casino they use 3 different kinds of white Roulette balls - they are different in weight, texture, and size.

The pit boss will switch balls depending on how the crowds are doing. If it's slow then they use a ball that has a long spin time, if the tables are crowded they use a ball that slows down fast - more spins per hour.

So the AP gambler must determine which ball is being used while they gamble - in addition to temperature, moisture, static electricity, and even where the moon is at the time.

AP is total voodoo.........
Keyser
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June 13th, 2012 at 9:56:46 PM permalink
And at what local Harrah's would that be? Hawaii doesn't have roulette.

How could static electricity possibly be a factor?
MauiSunset
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June 13th, 2012 at 10:08:06 PM permalink
I live in St. Louis, MO and we have "boats" to gamble on.

Static electricity builds up on your shoes as you walk - as you approach a Roulette table that charge is transferred to the table. During periods of low humidity you can even get a spark. That static charge builds up on the table and affects the spinning ball to some degree.

Humidity is probably a big factor too since it makes a hell of a difference in air density.

Then there is the oil on the fingers of the dealer.

Don't forget what happens as the ball jumps out of the track and bounces to the floor - all that gunk on the floor. Sure the dealer will wave the ball past the compass to make sure it doesn't have a magnetic core but I've yet to see a dealer clean the ball.

There is no way to use any kind of math to come up with any kind of forecast - none.....
Keyser
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June 13th, 2012 at 10:17:08 PM permalink
Quote: MauiSunset

Static electricity builds up on your shoes as you walk - as you approach a Roulette table that charge is transferred to the table. During periods of low humidity you can even get a spark. That static charge builds up on the table and affects the spinning ball to some degree.



Not in the way you've described it.


Quote: MauiSunset

There is no way to use any kind of math to come up with any kind of forecast - none.....



Then why does the chief engineer for TCS Huxley say otherwise? I've seen the math, I know the formulas, I've seen the videos. Perhaps you should explain to him where he's in error.

Why is it that someone that pretends to be an aerospace engineer doesn't understand something as simple as the linear regression of a decaying ball on a track, and coefficient of restitution tests? I also don't understand your fascination with roulette system forums.
Keyser
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June 13th, 2012 at 10:30:32 PM permalink
delete
MauiSunset
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June 14th, 2012 at 3:43:28 AM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Not in the way you've described it.




Then why does the chief engineer for TCS Huxley say otherwise? I've seen the math, I know the formulas, I've seen the videos. Perhaps you should explain to him where he's in error.

Why is it that someone that pretends to be an aerospace engineer doesn't understand something as simple as the linear regression of a decaying ball on a track, and coefficient of restitution tests? I also don't understand your fascination with roulette system forums.



You sound just like all the other AP players on other Roulette chat rooms - like a UFO believer who happened to log into the wrong chat room.

A simple demonstration will clear all this up - Scotty, the Chief Engineer on the Enterprise, can easily demonstrate it live for us and clear all this up.

Oops wrong chat room - sorry..............
MauiSunset
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June 14th, 2012 at 4:25:31 AM permalink
To all you AP Roulette gamblers out there:

You believe that you can get an advantage over the casino by studying the physics and math behind a spinning wheel and spinning ball - I'm happy for you.

Maybe under strict controlled environments that's possible - but the casino is the real world and all your wonderful theories make no sense at all:

>That wheel is constantly slowing down, the spin last time was made at a faster rate than this one.

>And then the dealer spins the wheel faster to start the cycle all over again.

>The ball is let go at different speeds and the dealer does not look at the wheel to release it in the general area of the last spin.

>The pit boss can switch out white balls and you have brand new characteristics in play.

>The wheel used today may have been not the wheel at the same table yesterday - maintenance replaced it for some reason.

>The dealers take a break every hour and his/her 15 minute replacement spins the ball totally different.


You guys know all this stuff and always drag out mysterious people, formulas, computers, and processes and imply that they compensate for all the above.

BS - Roulette can't be beaten by mathematicians, physicists, engineers, or PhDs.

No matter how smart you are you can't beat Roulette - that's the sad truth. Einstein said it best:
"You cannot beat a roulette table unless you steal money from it"

No one has ever proven Einstein wrong on this subject - no one.....

P.S.
All I'm asking for is verifiable proof that AP has "beaten Roulette" in this post - certainly there should be proof somewhere.
Gabes22
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June 14th, 2012 at 5:16:28 AM permalink
When I have heard of it working was in Europe with the "en prison" rule which has roughly 1/4 of the HE of an American wheel.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
MauiSunset
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June 14th, 2012 at 5:21:08 AM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

When I have heard of it working was in Europe with the "en prison" rule which has roughly 1/4 of the HE of an American wheel.



One would think that some AP guy who has made his millions/billions would put on a world demonstration and prove that AP does beat Roulette; take the credit and then retire with world adoration. The guy would easily get a reality show "Die Casino Die".

Sadly we must settle for rumors.........
Gabes22
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June 14th, 2012 at 6:20:34 AM permalink
It was a documented case, but like I said it was a team of people and they had to figure out biases on a particular wheel and it was in Europe. This team was featured on The History Channel's "Breaking Vegas" series of about 2005. But noone has done what you requested, which is make a long term profit off of roulette without some sort of knowledge of wheel bias or something like that.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
MauiSunset
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June 14th, 2012 at 6:31:59 AM permalink
Thanks.

AP folks are like UFO folks - "You should have been here yesterday".............
MauiSunset
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June 14th, 2012 at 6:46:06 AM permalink
I'm assuming that no proof of AP "beating Roulette" exists and will move on to other things at the end of today.

Exactly what my research has shone - lot's of wishful thinking but the same ol' losses like the rest of us, but with the smoke and mirrors.....
Gabes22
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June 14th, 2012 at 6:47:18 AM permalink
LOL! Why are you ridiculing me for answering your question? It's not like I believe in AP roulette as I illustrated to you the only cases in which I have seen it work amount to what I think is cheating by the team or at worst gross negligence by the casino.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
MauiSunset
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June 14th, 2012 at 6:50:12 AM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

LOL! Why are you ridiculing me for answering your question? It's not like I believe in AP roulette as I illustrated to you the only cases in which I have seen it work amount to what I think is cheating by the team or at worst gross negligence by the casino.



I didn't mean to ridicule you, just AP.

Sorry for the confusion - I apologize for any confusion on my part...
MauiSunset
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June 15th, 2012 at 7:23:06 AM permalink
Well I'm closing this thread down - I'll unsubscribe and move onto other topics with more life.

To summarize my view of AP:

It's just more Voodoo that can't be substantiated in the slightest except by folks who sell $29.99 AP systems or Roulette wheels; same thing with "reading random numbers".

My suggestion to those who want to spend thousands of hours traveling down the AP highway:

1) Get a mechanical Roulette wheel, like the air-ball ones the casinos use, and do your own version of Myth Busters - let the thing run for a year and let it release the ball in the same area and document the effects of humidity, static electricity, ball release speed, slowing of the wheel, etc - get the data and then publish a paper. Try to be a little scientific and move out of the Voodoo cellar.

2) If you want to program in super fancy equations that's fine but simulation software using Heuristic programming, is just simpler - it watches input and output over millions of observations and it will build a model for you without any programming. It has no idea what's going on but it models the real world and the basis for most simulation software. Just like Monte Carlo simulation can accurately calculate the area or volume of things without knowing any calculus so can Heuristic modeling reproduce and simulate physical things.

PM me if you have something earthshaking - I can't wait.

Best of luck to you all......
FleaStiff
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June 15th, 2012 at 7:56:49 AM permalink
Uh... as to this Einstein stuff... no one can make money at roulette unless he cheats ....... and the casino permits bets to be made after the ball has slowed.
MathExtremist
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June 15th, 2012 at 8:38:35 AM permalink
Certainly you're not saying it's impossible to beat roulette with a computer tracking the ball. That's been done, many times. It's also why the regulations don't let you use a computer to track roulette.

Read Eudaemonic Pie for the full story.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
24Bingo
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July 12th, 2012 at 8:54:43 AM permalink
*disregard - I misread the date on this thread*
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
ybot
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June 28th, 2013 at 7:12:38 AM permalink
Quote: MauiSunset

To all you AP Roulette gamblers out there:

You believe that you can get an advantage over the casino by studying the physics and math behind a spinning wheel and spinning ball - I'm happy for you.

Maybe under strict controlled environments that's possible - but the casino is the real world and all your wonderful theories make no sense at all:

>That wheel is constantly slowing down, the spin last time was made at a faster rate than this one.

>And then the dealer spins the wheel faster to start the cycle all over again.

>The ball is let go at different speeds and the dealer does not look at the wheel to release it in the general area of the last spin.

>The pit boss can switch out white balls and you have brand new characteristics in play.

>The wheel used today may have been not the wheel at the same table yesterday - maintenance replaced it for some reason.

>The dealers take a break every hour and his/her 15 minute replacement spins the ball totally different.


You guys know all this stuff and always drag out mysterious people, formulas, computers, and processes and imply that they compensate for all the above.

BS - Roulette can't be beaten by mathematicians, physicists, engineers, or PhDs.

No matter how smart you are you can't beat Roulette - that's the sad truth. Einstein said it best:
"You cannot beat a roulette table unless you steal money from it"

No one has ever proven Einstein wrong on this subject - no one.....

P.S.
All I'm asking for is verifiable proof that AP has "beaten Roulette" in this post - certainly there should be proof somewhere.




Einstein has never studied the game of roulette as it should be done.

No real AP would tell how to achieve it. And it took hard work to accomplish

AP business is for very few people.
Last edited by: ybot on Aug 3, 2019
MonkeyMonkey
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June 29th, 2013 at 2:20:37 AM permalink
7craps
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July 6th, 2019 at 6:58:21 AM permalink
Quote: MauiSunset

So how many spins are needed for all 38 numbers to show up?

this is often asked around a Roulette table (heard it yesterday actually)
38 numbers (160.7 being the average number of spins - still no guarantee)
spinsprob all 38#s show at least 1 time
384.86120346021012e-16
1000.046602998
1500.482251976
1610.583797212
2000.830154284
2500.952596867
3000.987321779
3800.998491899


37 numbers (155.5 being the average number of spins)
spinsprob all 37#s show at least 1 time
371.303986462408241e-15
1000.0640028
1500.530644148
1560.585913854
2000.855284399
2500.961401657
3000.990074217
3700.998536958

data from R code (uses Markov chain) found here: https://sites.google.com/view/krapstuff/roulette

different from: https://wizardofvegas.com/member/nope27/blog/#post153
ROULETTE 00 WHEEL "AT LEAST 1" NUMBER NOT HITTING
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
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