MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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July 25th, 2017 at 9:20:54 AM permalink
Spirit Mountain Casino, located in rural Grand Ronde, Oregon, is feeling the pain of competition from recently opened Ilani casino, which is located closer to Portland.

No, Spirit Mtn. is not empty, but its parking lots are no longer full or nearly full; just by eye-balling I'd estimate buiness is down about forty per cent.

Ouch.

One way I gauge things is by the ease of getting onto the craps table; back when it was hopping it was nearly impossible to get on it during peak times, but not any more.

Weirdly, the casino just installed a bubble craps game next to the main craps table: the bubble craps had more action than the real thing.

The players were all pretty young: millenials, mostly.
"What, me worry?"
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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July 25th, 2017 at 9:37:25 AM permalink
As far as I'm concerned, the more competition the better for players (as long as these places don't go bankrupt).

Casino's here on the east coast that have little competition often have high crowds, high limits, 6-5 blackjack, and stingy VP payouts.
Romes
Romes
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July 25th, 2017 at 9:55:27 AM permalink
Was Spirit Mountain the one someone posted about previously saying the dealers/managers were just AWFUL to customers because they didn't care because they didn't have any competition? I could be mixing places up, but that name sounds familiar for that memory. Or maybe I'm just a sucker for some good old irony.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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July 25th, 2017 at 10:13:56 AM permalink
Ilani is pretty nice...visited for the first time in mid June. The only advantage Spirit Mountain has is that I believe Oregon slots are true RNG machines whereas WA slots are VLT's. Over time I would expect Ilani's table biz to continue to increase and Spirit Mountain's table game action to decrease...slots biz may be OK, but it is still almost 75 miles to Spirit Mountain from Portland and only 25 miles to Ilani....
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 25th, 2017 at 11:46:33 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Ilani is pretty nice...visited for the first time in mid June. The only advantage Spirit Mountain has is that I believe Oregon slots are true RNG machines whereas WA slots are VLT's. Over time I would expect Ilani's table biz to continue to increase and Spirit Mountain's table game action to decrease...slots biz may be OK, but it is still almost 75 miles to Spirit Mountain from Portland and only 25 miles to Ilani....

I haven't played VLTs much. Not that I have populously avoided them, I just haven't been in too many situations where there was a good reason to play them. The few times I have played them I won.

Assuming the overall payback is the same(I know it's not on VP)... Does it really matter if you are playing an RNG or a VLT on SLOTS?

Let's say they guaranteed an overall 99.5% payback
+ good cash back / free play on VP on a VLT, would you guys refuse to play it? I would be very cautious when playing a promotion that paid a bonus on specific hands or a progressive, but I don't think I would just disregard a casino with a possible good situation because it used VLT's.

Am I wrong to think a VLT would be the same as an RNG in the long run(assuming the same payback percentage)?

Do VLT's usually have significantly lower payback percentages on slots than slots using RNG's?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
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July 25th, 2017 at 12:49:04 PM permalink
I can't answer your questions, except to say RNG's are what is used in NV and if I was a slot player, which I am not, I would want to play the same type of machines that exist in NV given a choice.
djatc
djatc
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
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July 26th, 2017 at 2:48:45 AM permalink
I used to play their 25c 9/6 jacks progressives many years ago, seemed legit. No funny magic cards or genies.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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July 26th, 2017 at 4:31:01 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I haven't played VLTs much. Not that I have populously avoided them, I just haven't been in too many situations where there was a good reason to play them. The few times I have played them I won.

Assuming the overall payback is the same(I know it's not on VP)... Does it really matter if you are playing an RNG or a VLT on SLOTS?

Let's say they guaranteed an overall 99.5% payback
+ good cash back / free play on VP on a VLT, would you guys refuse to play it? I would be very cautious when playing a promotion that paid a bonus on specific hands or a progressive, but I don't think I would just disregard a casino with a possible good situation because it used VLT's.

Am I wrong to think a VLT would be the same as an RNG in the long run(assuming the same payback percentage)?

Do VLT's usually have significantly lower payback percentages on slots than slots using RNG's?



For slots, the virtual pull tab system in WA state (or NY racinos) should be pretty similar to slot machines in states with individual RNGs. If both were set to 85%, you wouldn't really notice a difference.

Heck in the NY racinos, I would suggest slot players to actually play there. The racinos' minimum payback is 90% (highest in the nation, iirc) and is 5% higher than their NY State RNG-driven casino counterparts.
RS
RS
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July 26th, 2017 at 6:22:44 AM permalink
I remember listening to a GWAE show and the guy on the show was talking about class II vs III machines.....and said to the player, both are the same on a slot machine, IIRC.
DRich
DRich
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July 26th, 2017 at 6:57:04 AM permalink
Quote: RS

I remember listening to a GWAE show and the guy on the show was talking about class II vs III machines.....and said to the player, both are the same on a slot machine, IIRC.



I have worked on both and yes, they are effectively the same. The one caveat to that was Washington used to have virtual drums where the wins were drawn from. If you see somebody else hit a jackpot you can assume there is now one less jackpot in the drum so the odds are constantly changing.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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