Uk: Playing non-persistant versions

Uk Money balls:

In Uk, RTP of machine must be stated:


.40/spin
Lost $150 (almost 400x)

No significant line hits.
Only 5 money balls for random # of balls between 6-23 but for not much. Only once did I get a multiplier (x2).
A few mini's and a couple minors, called orange and purple over here.
Never got the free games. In all those spins not one free spins?!?

It played more like a 85% machine than 94%.
(I think 94% is max setting so if that's the avg, then all bet levels are 94%)

Also got lousy results on a 94% Magic Nile:


None of the Green hits got the King or Queen.
Always the lesser symbols.
The red (expanded reels) never got 5 oak.
Blue (x2 multipler) also sucked but I'm going to give a pass because sample size of 1.

88% machines at MGM paid better.

Is this normal or just bad luck getting horrible Rng rolls of the 2 machines I tried?
If normal, then variance of non-persistant machines is HUGE.

I don't know whether this was online or at a land-based casino, but at the latter, the RTP is checked against long term play. Typically the bonus rounds contribute a significant portion of the RTP so, unless you've had a lucky line-win, you need to trigger a bonus round and then have it pay out a reasonable prize to make a profit. I do recall in my local casino there were some with low variances and others with very high variances, and a wide or narrow normal curve symbol told you which type of machine game you had. (I believe some old threads posted PAR sheets for some machines showing some of these details.)

Quote: charliepatrick

\ Typically the bonus rounds contribute a significant portion of the RTP so, unless you've had a lucky line-win, you need to trigger a bonus round and then have it pay out a reasonable prize to make a profit.

I remember looking at PAR sheets for games where the Bonus Round contributed 40% of the total payback.

Quote: charliepatrick

I don't know whether this was online or at a land-based casino, but at the latter, the RTP is checked against long term play.
Typically the bonus rounds contribute a significant portion of the RTP so, unless you've had a lucky line-win, you need to trigger a bonus round and then have it pay out a reasonable prize to make a profit.
I do recall in my local casino there were some with low variances and others with very high variances, and a wide or narrow normal curve symbol told you which type of machine game you had. (I believe some old threads posted PAR sheets for some machines showing some of these details.)
link to original post

a Grosvenor casino in London
In my OP, there's no arrow in the rtp screen to indicate variance level

Quote: 100xOdds

...a Grosvenor casino in London
In my OP, there's no arrow in the rtp screen to indicate variance level...

It probably depends on which machine type you're playing, I think the indication was when you could choose which game to play rather than the rules and paybback pages. I can imagine in London, given the limit on stakes, people prefer higher variance and their chances for bigger prizes.
As has been mentioned I can remember something like 50-70% RTP from line wins and the rest via the feature.

btw for those not familiar with the tight UK rules there are regulations that specify the testing and other standards required for class B1 and other types of machines. Also the casino will be checking the actual RTPs closely resemble the theroticals.
https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/licensees-and-businesses/page/gaming-machine-technical-standards
https://assets.ctfassets.net/j16ev64qyf6l/1CjVvBJBstdDpdgbgZY5Ir/69af26fe3d5fb78acb8e5f3f6e094493/Machine-standards-category-A-and-B1.pdf

Either i'm running really bad with thousands of spins at 94% machines or there's a HUGE noticeable difference between 94% and 100.1%.

94% @ min bet (from .40 to .80):
- I've played the non-persistent versions of Money balls, treasure box, and Magic Nile

- I also played non-AP games like Mystery of the Lamp and Book of Ra just to see if it's the way the non-persistent versions are programmed vs the AP'able ones.
Nope, these 2 games ate $ without much return as well.

They all played more like 85%.
But since they're listed as 94% i'm surprised at the wide variance feast/famine swings.

And this is from multiple casinos and different casino chains/independant casinos.

So to answer my own question, yes there's a noticeable difference between 94% and 100.1%.
Even if the Bonus sucks, being at 100.1%+ it's going to suck less because your Bonus is going to be more.
hm.. I guess i'm used to bigger Bonuses and explains why i was really disappointed/surprised at what the 94% ones gave.

And the most important thing when playing +ev, once you hit it you leave even if you lose $ on the play.
After my 1st bonus on all those games, i kept playing because i thought i'll get back to somewhere close to 94% theo.
$100 in. Once i dropped below $90, i never got over $90 again.
I ended up with $0 each time. (That's 250x at .40/spin)

Playing like a Ploppie, i Now know why Ploppies go broke.
Which changes my view on APs that play non-AP games because they're bored. They're not AP's. They're just smarter Ploppies.

Quote: 100xOdds

Uk Money balls:

In Uk, RTP of machine must be stated:


.40/spin
Lost $150 (almost 400x)

No significant line hits.
Only 5 money balls for random # of balls between 6-23 but for not much. Only once did I get a multiplier (x2).
A few mini's and a couple minors, called orange and purple over here.
Never got the free games. In all those spins not one free spins?!?

It played more like a 85% machine than 94%.
(I think 94% is max setting so if that's the avg, then all bet levels are 94%)
link to original post

If there are different RTP's for different stake values they have to state that. For the machines in the 'real' casinos (as opposed to the slots places on high streets) I don't think any of them vary RTP by stake size.

I think you've just been unlucky, you would've needed to play for hundreds of hours to get any kind of worthwhile sample size, given the variance of a lot of the games.

Quote: blackjacklad

If there are different RTP's for different stake values they have to state that. For the machines in the 'real' casinos (as opposed to the slots places on high streets) I don't think any of them vary RTP by stake size.

I think you've just been unlucky, you would've needed to play for hundreds of hours to get any kind of worthwhile sample size, given the variance of a lot of the games.
link to original post

Thx for rtp tip.

Well, my unlucky streak is a good thing.
I wasn;t having fun at 94% so I definitely wont enjoy it with the lower rtp of usa casinos.
So it reinforces my belief that playing -EV sucks and i have no idea how ploppies can stand the reaming.

(The $2.5M Grand on Dragon Link at Hard Rock in USA is +ev, right?
Lost $2.5k at $25/spin just to give it a shot)

Grovesnor (Southampton):


7 slots i recognize, all 94%.

One bank of slots i don't recognize 90%.
Another bank of those same slots but different cabinets, 92%.
The 90% bank is all full of players, the 92% bank is empty. Wha???

Grovesnor casinos seem to have the highest payback with 94% followed by Genting with 92% on slots i recognize.
For games i don't recognize, Empire casino was the only one with 94% (Book of Ra PLUS on bottom floor)

Oh, Grovesnor (Southampton) is the only casino that i've seen that had a UTH table.
8/7/4 Trips and $3 minimum.
I lost my $50 buy-in (not playing Trips). :(

The electronic plaque (which i wasnt allowed to take a pic of) said 3.xx% Trips, 1.15% Ante/Blind.
Surprised it said Ante/blind instead of just Ante that USA casino uses.

Hm.. Wiz says HE for ante is 2.2%: https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/
If it's 1.15% for ante/blind then it should be 2.3% for just Ante???