Resorts World NYC: State taxes for $600+ cashout?

On my Facebook wall, someone posted about his 1st time at Resorts World in Queens, NY.
Anything over $599.99 has to be cashed at the cage.

He said They tried to tax him for a $700 ticket.
He explained to the mgr that he put in $500 and proved it when they brought up his play.
He then said the mgr told him to put in $100 at most to start because he's not going to check next time.

It sounds like Resorts World NYC is a horrible place to play for high (or even medium) rollers if they're taxing on just cash out amount?

I strongly vote for opening of three NYC casinos to save the economy in New York. Bringing in competition is the only way to treat the gamblers right.

Dark Oz can come along and try to refute that if he's been there. But if the slots have bingo balls on them it's likely true. It doesn't sound like it's just a lowered hand pay amount, the cage is taking money out of your TITO amount if it's over $600, maybe at a 24% rate.

https://www.playny.com/taxes/

I once got a royal flush and was taxed 34% on-site. Why do you say 24%?

NY state only has three commercial casinos (and none are in NYC or even near it), several native casinos, vlt parlors, and bingo halls (native only).

Taxes:
real gambles: $1200 or more win
bingo: $1200 or more win
vlt: $600 and 300 times wager.

vlt is lottery. it is governed by lottery rules. A $600 win on a $1 bet is taxable. A $6000 win on a $1000 bet is not.

It is correct though that wins above $600 are restricted tickets that must be cashed at a cage. I do not think they ID you on them. You do need to show ID for taxable wins and they check you for welfare clawbacks and whatever else. Child support or whatever.

I know everything about it so here's the deal.

Resorts world is not a casino technically but a NYS lottery VLT (Video Lottery Terminal) and has different rules than the regular casinos in NYS.

No live dealers for one thing.

Like all lottery tickets including the regular Lotto and scratch offs, $600 or more is a jackpot for the cashier.

However his story doesn't make total sense. Once scanned there is no way the manager could or would reverse the jackpot decision like he described. The ticket validation would already have gone through the NYS lottery main computer in Albany.

Furthermore they actually DON'T TAX for amounts under $5,000. (Unless the win is 300 times the initial wager. $6 winning $1800 for example).

That's a non-negotiable point for anyone like MDawg who wants to claim I don't know what I am talk about. I have won hundreds of jackpots under $5,000 and quite a few over with my highest being $82,000 in NYS lottery facilities. That's them rules and how they work.

They will garnish back taxes, child support, parking tickets and welfare recoupment if you owe any from the $600 but still the guys story doesn't make sense

If they gave him cash because he made a $500 wager and won a jackpot that's only possible at a table game like E-Baccarat. They never figured out how to separate the winning from the original wager at the tables. He would have to still go to the cashier but the scanning would recognize that it was under $600 won and he AUTOMATICALLY would have been paid

So playing devil's advocate here, the guy assumed seeing the jackpot ticket that he had to pay taxes, asked to see the manager and when he got his money assumed he actually accomplished something by complaining when the outcome we have been the same anyway.

EDIT: To clarify It'sMeJeff comments above they will ask for ID to achieve the welfare clawbacks etc

However if the jackpot is not really a win over $600 (a $700 wager on Banker with a tie outcome would get you a $700 cashier only ticket even though you won no money for example) the scanning would show that and then no ID would be required.

Taxes are withheld at 24% on jackpots of $5,000 and above. (That's what I've been paying attention to as a non-Canadian.) I don't know what it was prior to 2017-18. 25%?
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https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/taxes/discussion/i-received-winnings-that-they-did-not-tax-in-2016-i-had-to-pay-a-penalty-because-i-owed-more-than/00/585429

Q) I received winnings that they did not tax in 2016. I had to pay a penalty because I owed more than $1000 to IRS. How can this be avoided if it occurs again in the future?
Normally, I would not have this situation so do not want to do the estimated tax at the $400+quarterly that the system printed when I did my taxes. The gambling winning was what took me over the $1000 limit to have a penalty applied (on) not work income. Is there a way for me to submit money directly to IRS if a gambling win happens in future?

A) You can throw away the 1040-ES forms if you want. There is no requirement to file them. It's just that if you underpay your taxes during the year, the IRS has a field day as they assess penalties and fines for that.

To avoid that in the future, the next time you receive a substantial amount of income on which taxes are not withheld, you'll want to send the IRS at least 25% of that income ASAP. You can do that at any time you wish online at http://www.irs.gov/directpay

‎June 5, 2019 4:10 PM

Quote: darkoz

...
If they gave him cash because he made a $500 wager and won a jackpot that's only possible at a table game like E-Baccarat. They never figured out how to separate the winning from the original wager at the tables. He would have to still go to the cashier but the scanning would recognize that it was under $600 won and he AUTOMATICALLY would have been paid...

I used to play exactly that, there. Believe it or not, it is playable, if you are willing to enter the wacky world of those kind of bets (and if the machines are working properly).

Because of the nature of the bets all of my pays were over $1200, but because it involved physical cards, there was no W2-G involved like there would be on a machine pay. It would spit out a ticket for the amount right there, but it could not be inserted back into the machine; the only thing you could do with that ticket is take it to the cage, where they would jerk you around for ID but there was still no tax paperwork. If it was over $10K I am sure there would be a CTR but I always quit playing before I hit that amount.

Good God what boring sessions those were! I used to smuggle my own liquor in, in little bottles stuffed down my crew sox. Made me feel like a teenager again! Then I would take a break and go out and watch the horsies when they were running.

Quote: itsmejeff

You do need to show ID for taxable wins and they check you for welfare clawbacks and whatever else. Child support or whatever.

Nice, I didn't know New York ran checks against child support. I think that is awesome and wish all states required that.

Quote: DRich

Quote: itsmejeff

You do need to show ID for taxable wins and they check you for welfare clawbacks and whatever else. Child support or whatever.

Nice, I didn't know New York ran checks against child support. I think that is awesome and wish all states required that.
link to original post

Might be good in theory. But not in practice because of the kind of people who will be enforcing it. That might explain why they have such attitudes there.

You take some little guy with a GED and a hard-on against the world, tell him he's now some kind of enforcer and that he has "authority" over people who have more than him, and that's his new toy, and he's going to be breaking it off on anyone he can there. There's a reason why menial laborers are that, it's not because they have thoughtful judgment and perspective, and the more you puff up the egos of people like that the worse they get.

It's also led to a cottage cheese industry of "trusted" patrons who will offer to cash out jackpots of people who owe for ten percent of the jackpot.

Sounds incredulous to trust them but people who owe take the chance versus guaranteed losing their jackpots to NYS.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Might be good in theory. But not in practice because of the kind of people who will be enforcing it. That might explain why they have such attitudes there.

I am not familiar with them and don;t know how the system works. If I was designing the software it would just tell the cashier to pay them or mail the ticket amount to some government office if the person was in arears more than the ticket amount. No decision required by the cashier.

Quote: DRich

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Might be good in theory. But not in practice because of the kind of people who will be enforcing it. That might explain why they have such attitudes there.

I am not familiar with them and don;t know how the system works. If I was designing the software it would just tell the cashier to pay them or mail the ticket amount to some government office if the person was in arears more than the ticket amount. No decision required by the cashier.
link to original post

Yeah it's kinda taking it out on the messenger.

How it works is as soon as the ticket is scanned the info has been recorded at the main computer in Albany. The cashier has no choice but to not pay the arrears because it's already confiscated by the state which controls the payments of the vouchers through their system.

This leaves the cashier the onerous duty of explaining why the patron isn't receiving their jackpot.

They cannot even see what the money was deducted for. The patron will receive notification in the mail about a week later explaining the amount deducted and the obligation enforced.

There will also be a dispute form if someone believes the deduction was in error.

I did have money deducted for some back taxes to NYS but my payment was already in the mail. So the overpayment was refunded a few weeks later by check.

Quote: DRich

Quote: itsmejeff

You do need to show ID for taxable wins and they check you for welfare clawbacks and whatever else. Child support or whatever.

Nice, I didn't know New York ran checks against child support. I think that is awesome and wish all states required that.
link to original post

I believe that is a fairly common rule on lottery prizes over $600 in many states.

Quote: darkoz

It's also led to a cottage cheese industry of "trusted" patrons who will offer to cash out jackpots of people who owe for ten percent of the jackpot.

Sounds incredulous to trust them but people who owe take the chance versus guaranteed losing their jackpots to NYS.
link to original post

I'd trust them. You'd have to be crazy to screw someone like that. You can make money screwing people, but you can make an awful lot more being trusted and reliable.

Think about the logistics of a cheat like that. I agree to cash out a ticket for 10% but I end up running with it all. Now what happens if that guy follows me to the door and tackles me? First off I'm getting banned, that's what you get for a fight in a casino. Then I get arrested, and if he tells the cops what happened they're going to find the cash on me, then they're going to look at the tape and that's going to verify it all happened like he said, and that he actually won the jackpot. Now because I've falsified tax paperwork it's federal and if those authorities choose to prosecute, I am screwed.

Even if I get out of there untouched, now I have to worry about running into this guy on the street. I can never go back to that casino. I could blow town, but if I was ever a trusted and connected person in that town I have to give that all up if I leave. I think there's a lot more profit and less work in just doing what I agreed to do and running my little cashout racket indefinitely!

The primate mind is fascinating.