bgriffin
bgriffin
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November 29th, 2021 at 9:12:08 AM permalink
Noticed that MGM National Harbor has introduced a game they're calling Pontoon 21:

https://mgmnationalharbor.mgmresorts.com/content/dam/MGM/mgm-national-harbor/casino/table-games/gaming-guides/mgm-national-harbor-casino-table-games-guides-pontoon-21.pdf

Which appears to have the same rules as Spanish 21, similar to the "pontoon" game played in Australia and some other parts of the world. I guess maybe the copyright/patent/whatever on Spanish 21 ran out, since I assume MGM wouldn't otherwise start committing infringement while paying for Spanish 21 for Borgata and possibly elsewhere?

It's interesting to see the game being newly introduced there when it hasn't gotten much traction beyond a handful of markets like Atlantic City where it's an established fixture, but I guess maybe if it went from requiring a licensing fee to being free, it became easier to justify trying it out.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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November 30th, 2021 at 7:07:13 AM permalink
The rules of MGM's Pontoon 21 have the following:

MATCH SUPER BONUS
One Non-Suited Match Pays 3-1
Two Non-Suited Matches Pays 6-1
One Suited Match Pays 12-1
One Non-Suited Match and
One Suited Match Pays 15-1
Two Suited Matches Pays 24-1

What is a "Match"? Does "two matches" refer to the table on any given hand?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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November 30th, 2021 at 7:07:18 AM permalink
The rules of MGM's Pontoon 21 have the following:

MATCH SUPER BONUS
One Non-Suited Match Pays 3-1
Two Non-Suited Matches Pays 6-1
One Suited Match Pays 12-1
One Non-Suited Match and
One Suited Match Pays 15-1
Two Suited Matches Pays 24-1

What is a "Match"? Does "two matches" refer to the table on any given hand?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
unJon
unJon
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November 30th, 2021 at 7:38:10 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

The rules of MGM's Pontoon 21 have the following:

MATCH SUPER BONUS
One Non-Suited Match Pays 3-1
Two Non-Suited Matches Pays 6-1
One Suited Match Pays 12-1
One Non-Suited Match and
One Suited Match Pays 15-1
Two Suited Matches Pays 24-1

What is a "Match"? Does "two matches" refer to the table on any given hand?
link to original post



Usually “match” means one of your first two cards matches the dealer up card on rank. Two matches means you have a pair and it matches the dealer up card.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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November 30th, 2021 at 8:15:06 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: gordonm888

The rules of MGM's Pontoon 21 have the following:

MATCH SUPER BONUS
One Non-Suited Match Pays 3-1
Two Non-Suited Matches Pays 6-1
One Suited Match Pays 12-1
One Non-Suited Match and
One Suited Match Pays 15-1
Two Suited Matches Pays 24-1

What is a "Match"? Does "two matches" refer to the table on any given hand?
link to original post



Usually “match” means one of your first two cards matches the dealer up card on rank. Two matches means you have a pair and it matches the dealer up card.
link to original post



I assumed it was a rank match, but a rank match with the dealer upcard will occur in roughly 1/12 hands - so how could such a frequent event pay 3-1? Or is this Match Super Bonus a sidebet? (the return on such a sidebet would appear to be terrible)
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
unJon
unJon
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November 30th, 2021 at 8:26:03 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Quote: unJon

Quote: gordonm888

The rules of MGM's Pontoon 21 have the following:

MATCH SUPER BONUS
One Non-Suited Match Pays 3-1
Two Non-Suited Matches Pays 6-1
One Suited Match Pays 12-1
One Non-Suited Match and
One Suited Match Pays 15-1
Two Suited Matches Pays 24-1

What is a "Match"? Does "two matches" refer to the table on any given hand?
link to original post



Usually “match” means one of your first two cards matches the dealer up card on rank. Two matches means you have a pair and it matches the dealer up card.
link to original post



I assumed it was a rank match, but a rank match with the dealer upcard will occur in roughly 1/12 hands - so how could such a frequent event pay 3-1? Or is this Match Super Bonus a sidebet? (the return on such a sidebet would appear to be terrible)
link to original post



The first two sentences from the link in the OP indicate it’s a side bet.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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November 30th, 2021 at 1:50:57 PM permalink
Sorry for stupid questions.

With six decks, this side-bet has an EV of -0.22206. A VERY unattractive sidebet.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
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November 30th, 2021 at 2:09:44 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Sorry for stupid questions.

With six decks, this side-bet has an EV of -0.22206. A VERY unattractive sidebet.
link to original post



The side bet, which they call "Match Super Bonus," is the exact same as the original side bet called "Match the Dealer." Match the Dealer is the side bet originally used with "Spanish 21," and Spanish 21 is exactly the same game on "Pontoon 21."

By the way, Spanish 21 with Match the Dealer remains very popular in Atlantic City since around 2000.

Here's a picture of part of the Wizard's page on Match the Dealer. You can see that the pay table changes with the number of decks.

gordonm888
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gordonm888
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November 30th, 2021 at 3:21:07 PM permalink
Spanish-21 is very similar to Australian Pontoon, but they are not exactly the same. For example, in Pontoon, you may only Double on 9-11 and not on soft hands; in Spanish-21 you can double on any 2 cards, and on multiple cards. After doubling in Sp-21, you may either stand, surrender or redouble; in Pontoon a redouble is not allowed.

Also, Pontoon is European- No peek and a player 21 beats a dealer BJ. Spanish 21 involves a Dealer peek, and Dealer BJ beats any non-BJ hand of the dealer.

Pontoon-21, the game that is under discussion in thsi thread, apparently differs from both of them by allowing resplitting pairs up to 4 hands - including AA. In Pontoon-21, you may double on any 2 cards or on any hands with multiple cards, including after splitting (including after spiltting and resplitting AA).

Pontoon-21 is European No peek, but the rules say that a player 21 (or BJ) beats a dealer BJ. There is no mention of redoubling or of 5-card or 6-card charlies.

Also, Pontoon-21 -like Spanish-21 has a so-called Super Bonus, a fixed payout of $1000 or $5000 depending upon whether the player's original bet was <$25 or not, whenever the player has a suited 7-7-7 and the dealer's upcard is any 7.

The rules uncertainties I notice in Pontoon-21 is number of decks, and whether Late Surrender is offered (it probably is since Double Down Surrender is offered after hitting a doubled hand.) Also, it's not clear which hands (doubled, split, busted etc) lose when dealer has a BJ. Also, no mention of whether it is S17 or H17.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Nov 30, 2021
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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November 30th, 2021 at 3:38:25 PM permalink
SUPER BONUS

Player holds suited 7-7-7. Dealer up card any 7 $5-24
Bet WINS $1,000 $25+ , Bet WINS $5,000
Envy Bonus - All other betting players get $50. NO side
bet required. Splitting/Doubling VOIDS
SUPER BONUS

For a Player with a $5 bet, I calculate that this Super Bonus adds 0.0364% to the players EV.

With 4 other players at the table, the Envy Bonus adds 0.00728% to the Players EV.

Those tiny values are reduced further as bet size increases.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

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